One Hook or Two

[Thumper235]

I have used both single hook rigs and double hook rigs, but wanted to get other opinions on which is better.
When high speed trolling, which is better for rigging lures?

[islandshark633]

I use singles all the way back for lures 10" or less and doubles for larger lures. Southern Tuna 10/0, always orient the hooks point up so it buries in the roof of the mouth and tandem hooks should be in line with each other. Hope this helps.

[Boboe]

I use two hooks in almost all of my skirted highspeed lures. I like to orient the hooks at 90's to each other. Some will agree, others will disagree. Go with what works for you. Flame away.

[islandshark633]

no flames here, I agree you should always do what works for you, and beyond that, use what you have available at the time.

[Thumper235]

Thanks for the input.
To keep my hooks riding upward I am using a toothpick in the lure to keep them in place. Do you guys have any better suggestions?

[islandshark633]

I like the rubber hook locks you glue onto the back of the lure, they grip the crimp and nothing moves, also prevents the lure riding up the leader on the strike which can lead to cut offs by another wahoo.

check my web site for the LCG lures, I make a bullet lure that will stay upright at all times even tho the head is symetrical, this is critical to keep the hook set upright and have the lure looking live. ( fish do not swim with eyes down..... ). Traditional bullet lures will pull at any angle so you have no control over where the hook point is.

[bajakian]

Originally Posted by islandshark633

I like the rubber hook locks you glue onto the back of the lure, they grip the crimp and nothing moves, also prevents the lure riding up the leader on the strike which can lead to cut offs by another wahoo.

check my web site for the LCG lures, I make a bullet lure that will stay upright at all times even tho the head is symetrical, this is critical to keep the hook set upright and have the lure looking live. ( fish do not swim with eyes down..... ). Traditional bullet lures will pull at any angle so you have no control over where the hook point is.

Not to be a dick, but it strikes me as funny to hear a lure maker being so dogmatic about what a fish will or will not eat. Since the fish strike plastic, (not something normally found in nature), as well as lures with no eyes, and crazy shit like mop heads, pill bottles, bowling pins, boat fenders, CDs and beer cans, Id say that a moving target and a hungry fish are all that is neccesary. Ive pulled just about every type of lure out there for wahoo and have found that a sea witch / octopus skirt combo with two tandem hooks work as well as anything and better than most. I rig them on number 9 wire in contrasting colors and when they get cut and ruined by strikes, I can replace the damaged components cheaply. A bonita strip on the hooks seems to make them strike more aggressively. I have never made an effort to position the hooks in any special direction, and my hook ups dont seem to suffer. Just my two cents.

[islandshark633]

and where, exactly, do I say anything at all about what a wahoo will or will not hit?

this thread is about hook sets and orientation, not lures. The reference to my LCG lures is to do with keeping the hook points up over the top of the lure so they bury in the roof of the wahoo's mouth. As far as I am aware mine are the only symetrical bullet lures that can offer this feature and those clients of mine who have them swear by them now. Hooks ALWAYS go in the top of the mouth.

you do not appear to think this is important, my guess is you have not been doing much hi-speed trolling. If a large wahoo hits a lure at 16+ knots you most definately want the hook in the solid upper part of its mouth, otherwise the lower jaw will just be torn apart, result - you get no fish and the wahoo dies as it can no longer feed itself.

Troll at 8 kts or less and I am quite sure hook orientation does not matter one wit.

As I DID say, always use what works for you best.

[savanna lynn]

ya what he said all my hooks land in the roof of the mouth that also makes the fish swim to the surface faster and away from the sharks although i havent done much high speed trolling i think it makes good sense. ps a fish never swims upside down? also i can't figure out what keeps leaving those teeth marks in my LEADS?

[savanna lynn]

[quote=savanna lynn;47011]ya what he said all my hooks land in the roof of the mouth that also makes the fish swim to the surface faster and away from the sharks although i havent done much high speed trolling i think it makes good sense. ps a fish never swims upside down? also i can't figure out what keeps leaving those teeth marks in my LEADS? i guess i'll paint some eyes on my lures btw check out ACE FISHING LURES

[Boboe]

I love it when kings cut off my leads when bottom fishing

[islandshark633]

I have spent an awful lot of time underwater scuba diving and the only fish I ever saw swim upside down were the little tropicals in amongst the coral.

Wahoo are hitting your leads, make sure you have cable either side of the lead and dont be tempted to put a skirt on one, seems like a good idea but its really not, the fish will go for it, realise its not edible and then miss the lure.

[bajakian]

Originally Posted by islandshark633

and where, exactly, do I say anything at all about what a wahoo will or will not hit?

this thread is about hook sets and orientation, not lures. The reference to my LCG lures is to do with keeping the hook points up over the top of the lure so they bury in the roof of the wahoo's mouth. As far as I am aware mine are the only symetrical bullet lures that can offer this feature and those clients of mine who have them swear by them now. Hooks ALWAYS go in the top of the mouth.

you do not appear to think this is important, my guess is you have not been doing much hi-speed trolling. If a large wahoo hits a lure at 16+ knots you most definately want the hook in the solid upper part of its mouth, otherwise the lower jaw will just be torn apart, result - you get no fish and the wahoo dies as it can no longer feed itself.

Troll at 8 kts or less and I am quite sure hook orientation does not matter one wit.

As I DID say, always use what works for you best.

Firstly you did kind of suggest that a wahoo would prefer a lure where the eyes were upright because "no fish swims upside down". That prompted my response about what they will or will not hit.

I dont want to flame you out but I'd like you to think about what you are saying. Wahoo hit at speeds of 20 to 30 miles per hour and you think that the difference of trolling 8 mph and 16 mph will rip their lower jaw off? And does hook size, drag setting and stretchy mono vs wire or power pro factor into this discussion? You didnt mention it and I'd think that they were atleast as important as boat speed with respect to hook set and damage to the fishes mouth. My boat speed varies with conditions (usually between 8 and 12 mph) but my drag and downrigger releases are very tight-I once broke a tunas neck (literally) when he hit a bait while I was wahoo fishing. And I know people that catch wahoo with no rod and reel, just planers tied to the boat-Essentially hand lining them in after the strike. When that fish hits there is no stretch or give at all.

I'm wondering if anyone on this forum has ever had a wahoo's lower jaw torn apart-If so Id love to hear the details so I could reconsider my position. I also want to point out that double rigged mullet, a favorite natural bait of many fisherman when targeting wahoo, have both hooks pointing down.

[islandshark633]

Firstly you did kind of suggest that a wahoo would prefer a lure where the eyes were upright because "no fish swims upside down". That prompted my response about what they will or will not hit.

this is merely a reference to my lures ability to stay upright, you have to surely admit that will look more life like than on on its side....

I dont want to flame you out but I'd like you to think about what you are saying. Wahoo hit at speeds of 20 to 30 miles per hour and you think that the difference of trolling 8 mph and 16 mph will rip their lower jaw off?

yes they do hit at these speeds, and yes the difference between the damage at 8 and 16 knots can be tremendous. Reason being, take a big wahoo, say 60 + pounds travelling at 90 degrees to the lure's direction as they so often do when they hit, this means the head of the fish will be whipped violently to the side as the hook sets and there will be a great difference in the power of this whiplash between 8 and 16 kts. This will often break their necks too.

A friend of mine fished a wahoo tournament last month in the Bahamas and reported a wahoo with its lower jaw shredded, they were very lucky to land the fish. They were fishing at 16 knots on 80# mono. Ask anyone who fishes the BWC about this, they all know what happens at high speed as this is what they all do to catch the biggest fish, they are not interested in anything under 30#.

And does hook size, drag setting and stretchy mono vs wire or power pro factor into this discussion? You didnt mention it and I'd think that they were atleast as important as boat speed with respect to hook set and damage to the fishes mouth. My boat speed varies with conditions (usually between 8 and 12 mph) but my drag and downrigger releases are very tight-I once broke a tunas neck (literally) when he hit a bait while I was wahoo fishing. And I know people that catch wahoo with no rod and reel, just planers tied to the boat-Essentially hand lining them in after the strike. When that fish hits there is no stretch or give at all.

As I did mention, at speeds below what might be called hi-speed I do not think hook size or orientation is all that important. If you are using a down rigger or planer you can not be doing hi-speed.

I'm wondering if anyone on this forum has ever had a wahoo's lower jaw torn apart-If so Id love to hear the details so I could reconsider my position.

addressed above

I also want to point out that double rigged mullet, a favorite natural bait of many fisherman when targeting wahoo, have both hooks pointing down.

again, slow speed, hooks down will work just fine.

[e-money]

Islandshark is right. If you put 30+lbs of drag on an 80 at 16 knots, you can and will "jaw jack" a few fish. I have seen myself where this has happened, although the majority of the fish we bring to the transom still have jaws intact.

[bajakian]

Originally Posted by e-money

Islandshark is right. If you put 30+lbs of drag on an 80 at 16 knots, you can and will "jaw jack" a few fish. I have seen myself where this has happened, although the majority of the fish we bring to the transom still have jaws intact.

I appreciate you sharing your experience in this discussion. I never fish at 16 knotts but I will incorporate it into my fishing. Have you found that hook position impacts on "jaw jack" and/or hook up ratio?

[islandshark633]

I agree with e-money, it does not happen all that often that there is great damage to the jaw, its just that it can happen at hi-speed and in a tournament that is significant because of coarse you want the largest fish possible and that is the one most likely to suffer damage.

I dont have any science on hook up ratio differences, I just think that once the hook is in the roof of the mouth it is less likely to fall out. Here's a picture of a small wahoo with the hook set perfectly in the center of the fish's upper jaw.

[cogzwell]

IslandShark:

I can't wait to use my new bullets on high speed..... thanks for your help and i'll let you know how we do...... of course it needs to stop blowing and lay down before we make the crossing..... doesnt look good for the rest of this week.

[e-money]

Cogzwell, we are leaving for West End / Lucaya Friday AM.
Focus is wahoos & yellowfins, let's hope for good weather !!
Try me on "Reel Diamond" on 16/68 over at OBB

Bajakian, I fished the last leg of BWC & have been hi speed trolling for a few years.
The fuel burn is outlandish & honestly it's probably more fun to catch them at 10-12 knots on stand up 50's than 16 knots on bent butt 80's.(from the holder) IMHO It comes down to simple math & #'s.

If boat X trolls at 14 knots & boat y trolls at 16 knots, Boat Y will cover MORE water in same day of fishing & almost invariably run over an extra fish or 2. It is very competitive out there & guys will even pull in their lines & leap frog 1/2 mile ahead of you to try to get to the fish first.

Congrats Savanna Lynn on 101 wahoo & 81 wahoo in Baccardi & BIG YFT to boot. !!!!! I think Savanna ia bit modest about not "hi speeding much".


Ace Lures are good stuff & lots of mfr's colors / patterns produce!

PS Have not seen a correlation between hook position & jaw injury. However, we have seen clear evidence that the fish prefer a particlar lure position on a given day.

IE early in the tide day 1 ALL the bites came on the shotgun. Day 2 ALL the bites on wire rods & mid flats. (go figure)

[bajakian]

Originally Posted by e-money

Cogzwell, we are leaving for West End / Lucaya Friday AM.
Focus is wahoos & yellowfins, let's hope for good weather !!
Try me on "Reel Diamond" on 16/68 over at OBB

Bajakian, I fished the last leg of BWC & have been hi speed trolling for a few years.
The fuel burn is outlandish & honestly it's probably more fun to catch them at 10-12 knots on stand up 50's than 16 knots on bent butt 80's.(from the holder) IMHO It comes down to simple math & #'s.

If boat X trolls at 14 knots & boat y trolls at 16 knots, Boat Y will cover MORE water in same day of fishing & almost invariably run over an extra fish or 2. It is very competitive out there & guys will even pull in their lines & leap frog 1/2 mile ahead of you to try to get to the fish first.

Congrats Savanna Lynn on 101 wahoo & 81 wahoo in Baccardi & BIG YFT to boot. !!!!! I think Savanna ia bit modest about not "hi speeding much".


Ace Lures are good stuff & lots of mfr's colors / patterns produce!

PS Have not seen a correlation between hook position & jaw injury. However, we have seen clear evidence that the fish prefer a particlar lure position on a given day.

IE early in the tide day 1 ALL the bites came on the shotgun. Day 2 ALL the bites on wire rods & mid flats. (go figure)

E money, thanks for the comeback. Its always great to exchange information with smart passionate experienced fellow anglers. Interesting point about the lure position-Have you any theories why that might happen? Ive fished for wahoo for years but with outboards its crazy to troll more than 12 mph or the fuel burn gets crazy. I fish with TLD 50 2 speed with spider wire and 100 lb mono top shot on downriggers, so going faster is out of the question. I look forward to continuing the information exchange.