Swordfihs landing regs.

[The BEAST]

Am I just outdated or is this new? According to FWC's latest recreational saltwater regulations online it is still 3 max per vessel. IS this because they updated it prior to NMFS ruling or are they imposing their own statewide rules.

I also noted that they now have made a regulatory correction to their landing criteria. No longer does the fish need to be in whole condition at landing. They cite landing conditions equal to NMFS... 47" LJTF... 29" Cleithrum to keel... or 33# dressed weight.

THis is the link to the regulations at FWC

Fishing Lines

[CaptKen]

good work Jim
I know someone who was recently approached by an undercover guy asking to see a scale on board for this purpose.

[The BEAST]

I'm glad to see the landing criteria has changed. At least now we can shoot our pictures on the deck and then dissect the fish to fit nicely in the fishbox covered in brine slush. This will also make unloading the fish a much easier job at the dock.

[billspilingup]

My understanding is that you could have always "cored" your swords while still on the boat. Swords were the only fish this was allowed for. The only recent change in regulations is the upping of the limit.

[Relentless33]

Originally Posted by billspilingup

My understanding is that you could have always "cored" your swords while still on the boat. Swords were the only fish this was allowed for. The only recent change in regulations is the upping of the limit.

I was under this impression as well. I made a thread a while back entitled: "Preparing a fish" which was where pdf links were posted that showed NMFS' regulations on cleaning and plugging fish while at sea.

Preparing a fish

[The BEAST]

Obviously with that regulatory correction that was not the case. The majority of fish landed in state waters must remain in whole condition. The problem is...if the state has a regulation and you land your fish on state soil, you must follow their regs since they have jurisdiction.

Case in point is you really don't need a fishing license to fish for anything outside of the 3 mile limit on the East Coast of Florida. I went a few rounds with some FWC guys I know down here about this very point. There is no federal fishing license... BUT if you land a fish at a Florida port you better have a Florida fishing license. Case closed!

THat is why I asked the initial questions. It doesn't matter what NMFS says about fish limits and sizes... if the State of Florida decides otherwise the state limits are what are enforced. This was most evident in the grouper fishery in the Gulf waters when the State went against NMFS, imposing there own regs in state waters, if memory serves me correctly.

Don't get me wrong... most states follow NMFS guidelines for offshore species but you might want to make sure rather than make a very costly error. After all, it is the FWC who will meet you in the state waters or at the dock and enforce the State's regulations. According to the link I posted they changed the landing requirements but if they say there is still a max of 3 Swords per vessel in Florida, that is what will be enforced by FWC.

I have printed out that link to carry aboard just in case the local LEO is not abreast of the new correction. It happens!

[The BEAST]

I did some researching tonight and found that the Swordfish regulations as to boat limits has not been changed since 4/2/2003... in the state of FLorida the statute still remains at 1 per person/ 3 maximum per vessel.

SO much for helping with the quota, huh?!? If you have been keeping 4 or more you may be legal by the federal boys but when you enter state waters you are in violation. Somebody better tell CMD before they keep 4, 5, 10, or 15 some night and get busted, hard.

This is the regulation if you want to look it up. 68B-33.0034 I even did their website page refresh uysing 7/1/2007 for a refresh page and NADA!

[quack quack]

I believe Fed regs supersede state regs.

[RiskTaker]

Gentlemen:

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

I agree with Capt. Jim that nowhere in the Florida statutes does it concur to go in like kind with the Federal regulations; the recently adopted 4 fish (Swordfish limit per vessel), as was announced a while back by N.M.F.S. But I have read somewhere that I cannot recall to give you an internet link to, that Florida will generally try to track the Federal rules, with specifics reasons otherwise.
Technically, the Florida statutes is what Florida LEO will enforce. (So no disagreement there.) Practically, with the enforcement of said regulations, states generally make a fair attempt to regulate in unison where the Federal regulations permit more and if you were catching the fish in Federal waters, generally the Federal rules SHOULD apply. However, we still have STRONG states rights, (and I will bear arms to keep it that way), and a more generous or a more restrictive STATE application would still prevail. (So, I do not agree with Quack Quacks statement in this case, as far as supercede goes, because that is contrary to the Federal, State, County, Municipality convention we have in place today.) Nevertheless, I believe that the State of Florida has been trying to stay in lockstep with the Federal regulations as far as Swordfish regs. go.

I truly believe that States rules will win out when pushed to the technicality, but in the general day to day operations of rules enforcement, I think uniformity of rules, when there are no specific objections otherwise, is what will go in the general flow, until properly amended.

So, I see no reason why Florida would not stay in synchronicity with the Federal adjustments, in this case. There has been nothing compelling to indicate otherwise. So, IMO the rule has simply been overlooked and will probably be adjusted to match the federal rule, unless specifically objected to with reason(s), in short order.

Has anybody called this to the attention of FWC? I have not. So until somebody does take this action, it could remain unattended to. Interestingly, many people are more acutely aware of current events on this forum than others may get elsewhere, w.r.t. some of the fishing rules.

In the meantime, I have never put 4 swordfish in the boat, but should that need or opportunity ever happen, I would not let the legality of this specific situation to be the source cause for not doing so. I will take my chances with the technicality of the law and let mother nature take care of the rest. (Because I think that the intent is the same.)

I think that things will sort themselves out in short order.

[DIRTYFOOT2]

I dunno...........Coast Guard boarded us Sunday, and checked our fish. They took exception to five seabass we had on board, between 11 and 12 inches. Federal rule is 12". Since the state reg is 11 inches, and we were fishing " state waters" we were in the right. However they did inconvienence us and our customers by holding the crew, the fish,and our next charter, a burial at sea, for 45mins until FWC showed up and straightened it out. Since the swords would most likely be taken from federal waters, and a federally managed HMS, I would think federal regs would be the appropriate guidline. One way or the other it would be nice if the rule was clear, to avoid harrassment by the sea nazi's.

[The BEAST]

RT,

Hey, we agreed again! WTF is happening here?????

An example in its purest form... There is NO federal recreational fishing license... so if you were to fish for offshore species, you should not be required to have a Florida state fishing license when partaking in the act of fishing or keeping those fish caught in federal waters. HOWEVER, bring a dolphin to the dock and have a FWC officer check you and you will get a ticket, no questions asked. I was told directly by my FWC friends down here in South Dade that they uphold the State regulations. I concur with you that this is most likely an oversight but it could also be a State conservation measure. Personally, I will follow the state guidelines to avoid getting that citation. Reason!?! I personally don't make near enough money to take a chance on being cited for over limits or undersized fish. Also, FWC has announced and sent letters to prior offenders that now the repeat offender laws (much higher fines to include loss of license priveleges) are in place now for repeat FWC violations, also. This is not a habitual repeat offender clause which means getting caught for the same thing over and over.

I will abide by whichever has the least... that way I am assured that I conform to any and all regs.


DF2,

In reality, you were not fishing in state waters when boarded unless you were catching your Swordfish and Sea Bass inside the state 3 mile limit, which I doubt. You could've received a federal violation for 11" Sea Bass while in federal waters. Beginning Jan 1, 2008 the Florida State regs on Black Sea Bass will be 12" minimum to conform to the federal regs. Very seldom does the state have less conservative limitations than the federal regs. State regulations will supercede the federal when landing those fish in State jurisdiction. Guaranteed!

The only time I have ever heard of the State of Florida allowing a benefit to a federal reg was when NMFS wanted a long temporary closure of the Red Snapper (or was it Red Grouper?) to all rec fisherman in the Gulf. The State openly did not accept this and placed their own 1 p/person limit to allow recs to fish for them, IN STATE WATERS (9 miles)!!!! I have never seen this before and haven't seen it since.

[DIRTYFOOT2]

No swordfishing on sunday Jim. Was just using the seabass " violation " as a case study in federal vs. state regs. In truth the fish were taken from less than two miles offshore. However we won't be going through that ordeal again for a couple seabass. The real reason the fish were even on the boat, was that a customer landed/measured them himself while I was busy doing the atlantic sharpnose roundup w/ twenty tangled tourists. This is really splitting hairs IMO, but if you pinched the tail all the fish but one made twelve. The head coastguard officer informed us that tail pinching is not the prefered method of fish measurement, even though the FWC handbook says " pinch the tail" . Good news was the FWC officer has checked our boat many times over the years, and knows were not poachers. The voice of reason, so to speak. Sorry about the thread derail

[Boboe]

When you're dealing with disparate regulations, such as in this case of state vs fed, they've got to catch you in federal waters with the undersized fish. In the Panhandle, we've got the situation where federal regs allow only 2 red snapper per person, while state regs allow 4. The only way to get a ticket for catching too many federal red snappers is to be boarded in federal waters and have more than 2 per person. Don't even think about catching them in state waters and then driving offshore into federal waters. They have caught several boats with over their limit in federal waters. For those who don't know, state waters extend 9 miles out from the shore, and federal waters extend offshore from there.

[DIRTYFOOT2]

I thought it was 9 miles in the gulf, and 3 miles on the east coast

[catching]

Here is the answer to the question direct from FWC

Thank you for submitting a question to the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. The response to your question appears below.




Subject
Swordfish Limit

Discussion Thread
Response (MFM-DE) 11/15/2007 10:20 AM
As long as you stay in transit and do not stop in state waters you will be fine.

[The BEAST]

And how do you prove you were in federal waters when you are loading the boat at the ramp and the FWC pulls up in his truck?

Just as Boboe pointed out... they will always assume it is a violation. You are landing your fish on state ground and as of yesterday, the FWC officer I spoke with at the Marina said they will uphold state guidelines in ALL cases.

I will stick to the 3 per person state regs as of now, rather than risk a citation and hefty fine!

DF2,

You are correct! Boboe was relating Gulf of Mexico waters.

[catching]

Jim how often is a Sword caught within 3 miles of shore you have it in writing from the FWC now so no worries at the dock

[The BEAST]

catching,

I'm not disagreeing with your post or rebuffing it's truth, but I have run into unreasonable LEO's before on the street and on the water. How often do you hear... you can prove that in court! That email posted by you could be denied very easily, especially since it is not accompanied by a name and FWC position. I'd rather not spend time in court proving my innocence over 1 extra fish.

[RiskTaker]

One extra fish...

Capt. Jim, when was the last time that you put 2 swordfish in the boat? You should be fine no matter what.

I have never put 3 in the boat on a given trip yet, but one day when the bite is on fire, all the freezers of crew are empty, and we have a full crew all wanting to catch a fish: then we may go for 4, as an exceptional fishing event. Most of the time we are happy with 1 fish but every once in a while it is memorable to have some GREAT fishing!

As long as you don't engage in fishing within State waters on your return, you will be legal, based on compliance to the Federal rules. I forgot to mention that specific provision, just as "Catching" pointed out on his post. Presumed innocence.....

Don't worry, the recreational anglers cannot make a significant dent into the quota; hence, they cannot decimate the swordfish abundance either. It takes commercial fishing pressure using PLL methods to accomplish a sizable dent ! (Domestic or International). That is what we have to be leery of.

Just needed to stir the pot of hot peanut oil.

[The BEAST]

RT,

You have missed my point... totally.