swordfishing what do you think

[Rod Chucker]

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

future quota allocation is the concern. if we do not use the quota then it can and should be distrubed to countries that will.

did you read the actual reg that i sent you? it says youre wrong about that. countries not meeting the qouta can sell it, but they dont have to and it cant be taken from them, the unused portion extends to the following year.

if the US cut of the pie is reduced and longline activity once again increases, the rec. fishery cut of that pie will be dismal.

at the end of the day, chasing the LL's out will hurt more than help the interest of most concerned here. it will help the local fish stock, but we have already established that few are really worried about that.

man, i respect your opnions BP, i really do - youve obviously been around for awhile and i'm relatively new to this fish, but i dont think youre ever gonna convince me that eliminating LL gear hurts anything. and i think EVERYONE who reads this forum is worried about our sword stocks.

[Rod Chucker]

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

i appreciate the honesty of QQ and Chucker in regard to their true motive for contributions here. suppose i am a little bitter at the fact that for many years the same people that are now only worried about protecting their own backyard are the ones who fought in the name of global conservation just a fews years ago. if you have doubts dig up some back issues of salt water sportsman, marlin or florida sportsman, you will come out of those articles with only one conclusion, swordfish must be saved at any cost. that sentiment has changed now. HUH? NOT SURE WHAT U MEAN BY "TRUE MOTIVES". IM ON THIS FORUM CAUSE ITS IMFORMATIVE, FUN, AND MOSTLY BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH THERE ARE VERY DIVERSE OPNIONS ON CERTAIN SUBJECTS, PEOPLE RARELY START THROWING PERSONAL INSULTS AT EACH OTHER LIKE THEY DO ON MANY OTHER FORUMS IVE READ - THATS IT - PERIOD.

so here is what we are looking for, ICATT to issue the US an adequate quota (the cake) and NMFS to keep the longliners out of south florida (eat the cake too). HATE TO ADMIT IT, BUT YEAH, I DONT MIND THAT IDEA ONE BIT!

chucker, the benefit of reporting your catches is to establish a historical catch rate so that when future quotas are handed out the US is not forgotten, that will not keep the LL out. my experience has been that you should report double what is being caught, because in the end you will only be issued half of what you want. i am sure that erroneous reporting now takes place for this purpose. SERIOUS QUESTION HERE FOR YOU BP, WITH ALL THIS ERRONEOUS REPORTING/NON-REPORTING GOING ON, HOW CAN ICCAT OR ANYBODY ELSE GET AN ACCURATE ESTIMATE OF WHAT REALLY GOING ON FROM THAT DATA? SOUNDS AS ACCURATE AS A SHOTGUN FROM 1000 YARDS TO ME.

it is good that you did some research on ICATT. what you will find is that most countries do not catch their own quota, but sell it off in one way or another to the japanese, spanish, koreans and americans. the benefit of selling off that quota is enormous, not to mention historical catch data to guarentee future quotas. unused portions of quotas will be issued to other nations (our delema). PLEASE SEE THAT THING I SENT YOU AND GO TO THE SITE AND READ THE REGS/QUOTAS SET DOWN BY ICCAT AND TELL ME IF YOU THINKS THIS IS STILL AN ACCURATE STATEMENT.

your analysis that rec. economic impact out weighs commercial only holds water between jacksonville to miami and that is only due to the current closure. don't you think that when blue water submits the potential economic impact for LL'ers in this area the numbers will be those of an adequate fleet both local and transient? off the top of my head i can calculate a min of $50 growth per pound of swordfish to the US economy with commercial sales, multiply that by tens of thousands of pounds per week. if you want to compete with that everyone needs to include the price of their vessels and you would still fall short. IVE READ IT HOLDS WATER FROM MUCH NORTH OF MIAMI ON THIS COAST, MANY PLACES ON THE GULF COAST, AND IN MANY OTHER FISHERIES AS WELL - N. CAROLINA, GREAT LAKES, HAWAII, ALASKA, THE LIST GROWS ALL THE TIME. AND THATS PRETTY GOOD CALCULATIONS FOR OFF THE TOP OF YOUR HEAD. ITS SEEMS TO ME THAT REC. SPENDING IS GROWING WHILE COMM OPERATIONS ARE FOLDING EVERYWHERE DUE TO LACK OF VIABLE STOCKS. WAVE OF THE FUTURE? CATCH AND RELEASE ONLY FOR SNAPPER, GROUPER, SWORDFISH?

[RiskTaker]

This forum topic seems to have been a pretty busy topic over the past few days. I just had time last night to review some of the comments.

There are a few select points that I absolutely object to, if true. And one that is a valid pespective but it is what it is; however, we do not know exactly what it is yet: the recreation economic impact.

I think Broadbill-Pro brought these issues up in his posts. I may not necessarily want to agree with the end reuslt, but it seems that he may have a very good understanding of the swordfishing industry well beyond the recreational interest's, near-sightedness, if you will. (I will be the first to admit it, so as not to offend any one recreational angler personally). But I think that the recreational interest may be quite self-centered and justifying their rational, with the benefits of conservation which the recreational "impact on the fishery resource" cannot cause severe damage to the fishery, alone. It may be beneficial to find out that the economical impact of recreational swordfishing may be much greater than previously being recognized for. However, in the grand scheme of things, being a favorable "card" is only one card in the deck or perhaps in your hand.

2 things that have set off my "hot" button are:

1 - The sale or transfer of a peice of allocation from one country to another from the ICCAT allocation. Granted, I do not understand all the politics at play here or the financial value, in terms of $US for this "piece of the pie. But I would like to say that if a country recieves an allocation amount, "for swordfish": they should be entitled to catch up to that quota limit. If they do not catch that allocation, then that opportunity of remaining fish should remain in the sea. The allocation will renew again the next year. (but never any carry-over either). There should be no transfer to any other country that is capable to do more than their fair share. I realize that this statement may have a great financial meaning to it that would leave something unexploited, in terms of bean counting humans.

But it seems like we should not lose focus on the number one objective for instantiating limits to begin with. That is to allow the proliferation of swordfish in our oceans while harvesting to an extent that will allow a harvest for all of time and keep it within the limits of our maximum sustainable yield. Leaving some cards on the table is not a bad thing if you are trying to ensure the well being of a fish species. (You get a fresh hand next year.)

2 - The other thing that hit my hot button was the statement that if the U.S. commericial allocation is reduced substantially, then the recreational piece of that pie would be seriously reduced too. (Broadbill-Pro, I understand you were just the messenger, but I need to comment on that point.) I would agree that if an allocation is fully exploited, that the season would be closed for the rest of the year, or a new standard would go in effect for the remainder of the season. It seems reasonable to allow recreational intersts to be entitled to whatever portion of the allocation that is available for a country, not just a slice of a pre-allocated amount. True , we may only account for ~ 2% of a National allocation by present results. But we should never be restricted to just 2% of the pie, divvied to the U.S. If recreationals can catch 10% they should be entitiled to do so from an allocation perspective. I am not trying to suggest that we change our present limits of 1/person or 3/boat per mission, to enable a higher harvest mass. But if during the course of the year, recreationals have a larger percentage impact on a reduced allocation, then so be it.

I am not sure if ICCAT divvies out an allocation in the form of a number greater than the maximum sustainable yield, (ie. like over booking in the airline industry to achieve higher utilization). But you would think that a well managed resource may possibly do this to a very limited extent. Say perhaps you allocate 105% of a "sustainable yield" allocation. Again, I admit I am naive to the way it is done in ICCAT, today. Someone can help me out here if they know better.

But the key things here is that if a country cannot harvest it's share of an allocation, mother nature keeps the rest (which in reality is how it plays today, except for that bargaining part: it is neither traded, bartered, sold or manipulated by any other methods. It starts anew the next year. (Too me that is a conservation statement.) Yes, I am also self centered. I want to fish all year long from a nearby port off the southeast coast of Florida (or any nearby swordfishing area), without having to dodge sets of long lines nor get offshore to fish in unproductive waters that have been previously stripped by sustained LL activity. (which we have previous experience with)

[Broadbill-Pro]

took a few days off, looks like i have some catching up to do.

chucker, i did read the attachment you sent me. is it your understanding that the US will maintain 29% of the north atlantic quota forever? it has been a while since i has taken the time to review ICATT's decisions, but if that is true then you are correct. my experience for the last 10 years has been in the south atlantic. the problem there is that new swordfish producing coastal nations are insisting that ICATT issue them some of the quota. my understanding is that the total southern atlantic quota will remain the same or be reduced while the countries that now have the largest cut must share. this is why brazil has an open door policy to foreign vessels. they want to prove as much historic catch data as possible for future allocation. in 1997 i was offered a free swordfish permit for the african nation of nambia for this purpose. we have many nations here in the northern hemisphere that are becoming members of ICCAT and deserve a piece of the quota if they can prove that they will use it.

relax, the term "true motive" was only refering to you and QQ as fisherman and not conservationists. same as the rest of us. it's the holy'er than thou pen pushers that should think about what they said in the past.

the economic tug of war issue will probably always be unclear. you are right that recs. are growing and comm. are being reduced in this area. but lack of viable stock is not the reason and this area is not the point of focus. america's desire to eat swordfish is the focus and rec spending will never match those figures.

RT, without a doubt there is a "nearsightedness" in respect to recreational fisherman just as there is with commercial fisherman and conservationists. everyone has a right to their opinion, but unfortunatly not everyone is correct. i am probably as close as you will get to a combination of all three. the comm. part of me is retired (but fiesty), the rec side of me is alive and eager to catch the sh-t out of them and the conservation side of me says that i have already caught my share and its time to give them a rest. in the end the rec side will win because once it's in your blood you can never walk away from it and though it may not seem like it, i am in agreement with a lot of the opinions here but will continue to raise discussion to ignite debate.

last word tonight on allocation. i believe that coastal nations should be forced to catch their own quota using a vessel holding that nations flag. foreign vessels (mostly spain) will leave countries like brazil, uruguay, peru, etc. if they were forced to reflag. reflagging in many of those nations is a death sentence to lose your vessel to the company that sponsors you. they will not take that risk with a 2 mil LL vessel. brazil is full of fools vessels who thought they could leave after the fishing was done. it only takes one crew member in most places to say that he is owed $10 and the vessel will be arrested and doomed to hugh legal costs and ultimatly forfeited.

[CaptKen]

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

everyone has a right to their opinion, but unfortunatly not everyone is correct. i am probably as close as you will get to a combination of all three. the comm. part of me is retired (but fiesty), the rec side of me is alive and eager to catch the sh-t out of them and the conservation side of me says that i have already caught my share and its time to give them a rest. in the end the rec side will win because once it's in your blood you can never walk away from it and though it may not seem like it, i am in agreement with a lot of the opinions here but will continue to raise discussion to ignite debate.

I LOVE This Paragraph !! I must have read it 10 yimes !

I have a quetion: After as many as you have caught and ate through the years, Do you still enjoy the taste of it ? If you caught a 150 lber tonight would you fill the freezer or keep enough for dinner and maybe another night or give to those that crave it ?

I know I have caught My fair share through the years and spend money like wild fire to maintain a boat and equipment to go catch another, I cant remember the last time I actually wound one in myself, Leave that for the others, I think they taste like sh__. I will trade it for a grouper or snapper any day. My wife says she cant get along with Me if its windy and I have a few days off, I guess Im like the rec side of you, I have it My blood !!! Do you know of any way way to turn it down a nothch or two .lol?

[Broadbill-Pro]

ken,

divorce and missing my children 330 days a year turned it down a notch for me. my dad had the fever in the 60's catching stripers off sandy hook, i was the designated mate at 8 yrs old. (not always by choice). i have always been around it and am not happy unless i am thinking about fish. the wind and sea twist my gut at times, especially when your out there and can not come to shore. i could not tell you the amount of swords and tuna i have been part of catching over the last 25 years, i am almost embarrassed to say. but i do know that each day i watch my new boat being built the desire to get back out there to watch someone (not me) pull on another fish is like a drug. my new bible has been the land-n-sea and lewis marine catalogs, my saved favorites web sites are all about live wells, batteries, outboards, etc. and my new bride is not so thrilled about the amount of time i am spending on this site. she actually asked me the other day if i was chatting with woman on here, i think in some way she would think i was normal if i was.

i still enjoy eating sword if it is cooked correctly, but it is not nearly my favorite fish. i had a twenty man crew aboard my comm. vessel. the cook had orders to feed them fish atleast once a day. during a haul back there are always many broken fish (shark bit). being the guy with the stripes on my sleeve i opted to bring a case of kingklip or hake to sea. pelagics are ok but cold water bottom fish is top on my list.

1. kingklip
2. patagonian toothfish
3. monkfish
4. golden tile
5. hake or cod

i do know what you mean, i lost the taste for dorado 15 years ago.

[CONTENDERCHRIS]

I think everyones drive and committment to the protection of Swordfish is what is needed to protect them. I appreciate those who actually walk the walk in conservation.

My .02 Why dont the Swordfish tournaments start to do more for conservation.

1st. Less kill tournaments or 1 fish weighed per tournament. Or like some Marlin tournaments NO KILLING ( I know there is only a handfull killed per tournament but its a start)

2nd. With all the money raised in a tournament, some of it should go to a sattelite tag. I dont see why every tournament cant buy a Sat Tag.

3rd. (Not Related to Tournaments) Why doesnt this forum open a place to donate money allocated for satelite tags. I will donate money to it for sure. I would think that soon enough money will be raised to buy one. If the SAIL club can do it why cant Swodfishing Central. I think its a shame the forum hasnt sponsored a TAG already

4th I personally think that 47 inches is too small and I hate to see so many small fish killed. If I can recall corectly I have only killed one fish under 55 inches. I dont think (based on size) any Sword is more valuable than another. but due to the fact that we catch more small ones than slobs. we should raise the standards for ourselves to not kill any fish relatively close to the limit.

I believe alot of us release fish slightly over the limit but ive read alot of low 50 inchers killed.

I agree that rec. fishing is relativily small in impact but we can still practice more catch and release.

Chris

[Broadbill-Pro]

i want to clarify my point about forcing countries to catch using vessels flagged of that nation.

Example - spain catches roughly 80% of brazils quota. the brazilians after more than 10 years of gringo tutoring still are not that good at catching. being a 3rd world nation they do not have the resources and for whatever reason the determination to operate a large scale commercial longline operation successfully. if forced to fill their quota in this manner, there would be a hugh shortfall in the south atlantic quota, either to allow other nations a piece or and more importantly less pressure on the fish stock.

this is happening in many northern hemisphere nations also, mostly on small eastern carribean islands and central america. american flagged vessels are to blame as well, forcing them to reflag (which they won't do) in order to unload in that country is a step in the right direction towards global conservation. one more clarification, catching without entering a countries EEZ is not a problem. plenty of fish exist in international waters, it is the access to offloading facilities and transportation whether by cargo ship or air freight that determines if a commercial operation is viable.

[Rod Chucker]

thnx for the response BBP. i appreciate you and everyone on this forum's time in writing your knowledge for me and all to read and learn from.

=D>

Ken, i feel ya. I personally could take sword meat or leave it. I normally give most of my share of our catch to friends and family, except for a few of the nicest steaks, which my wife is still experimenting with on how to cook 'em.

anyone got any favorite ways they want to share? i dont have a grill, so thats out. i personally like snapper ceviche the best of all fish dishes.

Chris, on conservation, i too would be glad to participate in anything you guys come up with. i think QQ was trying to start something up for SFC members.

our basic rule is, if you have to measure it, dont even land it. we used to drag pups up onto the boat to take pics, but we dont even do that anymore. we keep the first keeper fish, and then try for the slob only. 1 fish is enough for the 3 of us anyway, and were still 0-0 for a real big girl.

RC

[CaptKen]

RC
Dip it in beer, bread crumbs and flour and fry it, O and cut the dark part out first and get rid of it. Wont be so dry like this.

Or you could do the tin foil method, dump Bar B Que sauce on it, wrap in tin foil, when you get done cookin it , take it out and throw the fish away and eat the tin foil. {Kiddin}

[RiskTaker]

RC:

We're making a batch of Ceviche tonight. That is some good stuff, huh?

Don't forget about the Calamari salad: Italian style. (Another Favorite)

If you ever happen to be in Miami, make sure you try the place called Salmon Salmon (2words), Calle Ocho east. It is an Equadorian restaurant: they have some good fish dishes there. Ceviche is one of their specialties.


RC, you want to kick theat swordfish rcipre up a notch....

First, my favorite which is simply too easy: A light dustinng of Chef Paul Prodohmme's Blackend Redfish Magic, then a coating of olive oil. On the grill, in the skillet or in the oven(broiler) it goes.

Another recipe that I like a lot is the Jerk style swordfish. Admin. Mike has the recipe posted on this site. (Link - Hey Mike where did the recipe section go?)

Reserve the beer for the chef.

[RiskTaker]

Vinnie: Pay attention to this. Improve upon if so desired.

Rod Chucker: Ok, here is the Ceviche recipe: not that you need it, but you can compare notes.

CEVICHE

Seafood -you pick it (today we are using shrimp)
P.S. - the wife thinks I am competing with her because I am also preparing a batch of Calamari salad, but I took notes for her dish. And I like her dish, cups, curves, caves, etc. I'm a Sixty, minute man, \/ )
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CEVICHE

Fresh Cilantro (basis)
Red Onion - and a good amount (always, it is a basis)
Bell Pepper - (lesser amount) colors Red, green, (orange-tambien)
Tomatoes - 2 or 3 Plum is good (tomato not overly red ripe for this dish)
Jalepeño - 0,1or2 (seeds or sinsemilla) con/w_ semilla is hottest
green olive oil, salt and fresh ground pepper, to taste.
Lime Juice (fresh squeezed is best) 4 or more
(Lime Juice is what does the "cooking" , so you have to be sure that you have enough in the batch.

(Laniappe - In a pinch, you can always substitute white vinegar and a splash of balsamic if you do not mind it getting a little darker.) Remember fresh citrus is always better.)

(Another tip - Don't go to the bahamas without vinegar. They, (Bahama Customs Officiales), generally do not let you in the door with fresh citrus.)

Buen Provecho.... Compliments de Mama Mia (My children's mother ).

Oops - my Boo boo, a double post. But this is good stuff man. Pardon my lack of ediquette. Time for the Calamari. My turn in "la Cocina".

[31CAT]

Originally Posted by swordfish123

This idea is probably going to get shot down fast, but hey its worth a try...

What if we got Aftco or the Billfish Foundation to sell us some wholesale tagsticks and sell them on SFC. I could custom wrap them with the SFC logo and the boat name and we could make it a package deal with the Billfish Foundation tag kit, and sell them at no extra charge- but with about a $5-10 donation built into the kit, and we could also make up some specific instructions on tagging Swordfish. This would make it easy for the average guy who doesnt have a stick and doesnt want to put it all together.

We could advertise that all proceeds would go directly back to the Billfish Foundation or any other organization directed at saving our Florida Swordfish. I mean, like 15000 people look at this site every day, its worth a shot. I dont think many people are tagging swords

What im getting at is some incentive for people to buy a tagstick a tag the swords--basically, why pay a store the extra $ that goes in the store owner's pocket when you can get a nicer stick with the money going to a cuase...

count me in for one of those CUSTOM SWORDIE TAG STICKS

[Rod Chucker]

thnx alot RT and everyone who digs ceviche
MMmmmmmmmm. good

[Rod Chucker]

hey by the way, can u use unused squid baits for the calamari salad? :roflmao:

[quack quack]

Hello been down with the stomach bug for a few days.Vinnie you took all the words about watching other people catch fish right out of my mouth :lol: and my wife has asked me about chatting with girls on the internet.I think she thinks this site is a underground sex site with some strange code words :shock: :lol:

[RiskTaker]

RC:

If I could catch fresh squid, I would use those without any hesitation.
The thing that I am not familiar with... is whether any preservative is applied to (squid-for bait) prior to freezing. With this unknown, you may steer clear of bait squid unless you can find out exactly how they are treated.

After cleaning 5 lb. boxes of whole squid (prepared for Calamari salad) over the past two decades, today I simply prefer to use the (kilo-g sized) package of pre-cleaned squid, ~ $8-9. I like to keep two packages in the freezer at all times. They go great in Paella too.

For a hint on Calamari preparation: remove the beaks from the head and slice the body into rings. Cook this in boiling water for 1 -2 minutes (you could still do Ceviche style but cooked lightly is much more compatible to many more people. Some people have issues with uncooked fish.)

(BTW - Even uncooked fish for Sashimi or Sushi should be frozen for a couple of weeks to kill parasites. Those who eat raw fish, I am sure many have eaten it immediately after catch, but freezing first is the best practice, or the lime juice cooking method.)

CALAMARI Salad:

Same ingredients as above Ceviche recipe:
However, I do not use tomatoes or Jalepeno peppers, and only the juice of two lemons or limes.
2-3 lbs. of prepared Calamari
Two lemons to make it a little diffent taste than Ceviche style
Bell Pepper
Onion - Red or Sweet
1 Celery stick - diced small
A light touch of Oregano (some fresh if you have it) - optional
Salt, pepper, and green olive oil, too taste.
edit - #-o can you believe it, I forgot to list fresh garlic the first post
Garlic -3 cloves (pressed or minced fine)

Put it in the refrigerator to meld flavors for an hour or two and to get it cold.

Man. All this fish talk is making me hungry and the morning sun is still firing up.

Quack Quack - Don't forget to tell the wifie what the code word - ROFLMAO means: but be careful she may start to suspect that you are a Secret Agent man. :???:

Today's secret code sequence: 2-4-12-35-44-46 (20061504)
Next mission code name: 12-13-17-27-32-36 (20061904)

[quack quack]

Hey RT give me Weds code please I need some new boats,houses,trucks,etc :lol:

[Broadbill-Pro]

RT - i worked with a company in montevideo, uruguay that buys most of the squid sold for bait and human consumption world wide. the product is handled the same in both cases. when i learned this i was a bit put back to find out that the 20 tons of bait in our bait freezer was the same as is sold to my favorite restuarants. the squid is caught on 150 - 180 ft. korean jig boats off agrentina. as it is caught the jig machines dump into a conveyor that sends it to the hold for quick blast freezing. if you ever have the chance to eat hand jigged squid from south africa, don't pass it up. it is hard to find since most is exported to japan, but one taste and you will be hooked. same goes for SA lobster tails.

when buying squid for bait or food an important indicator is that the squid has a dark brown skin color and firm texture. if the squid is soft or has any red color tone is has more than likely been thawed and refrozen somewhere down the line. i certainly would not eat or even buy for bait a squid of that quality.


QQ - my thrill comes from finding them and getting them to eat. reeling them in has never been a passion of mine. i do enjoy pulling on light tackle game such as sailfish, yellowtail, etc.

wife really is not so bad, she is actually in the fishing business and knew what she was getting into. a trip or two to a concert, play or sunday brunch on the new river evens the score.

[quack quack]

BP - you are like a mirror to me :lol: same with the wife.Give me a chum bag a bucket full of oats over some nice bottom in the islands and I am in yellowtail heaven But if I had a choice put me on a good rip on an ebb tide off Montauk for some nice Fluke action :!: