rec. vs commercial - Page 5

Broadbill-Pro · 03-21-2006, 06:32 AM

RT - forgot to mention that the 250 would have to be part of a double header (did i squeeze out of that one?)

Randy · 03-21-2006, 07:26 AM

I hope the regulation of the Sword fishery doesnt go like others. It's great the snook are coming back but again but Im left at the dock here watching fishermen cleaning HUNDREDS of 20" dolphin with comparatively few large one since the 20" minimum was set. Im looking (diving) at the reefs/wrecks for a SINGLE grouper over 24" and seeing NONE though once in awhile someone catches one. Im looking for all those monster snapper that used to be EVERYWHERE as I was growing up thick under every docked boat . Now im watching as the commercial lobster guys pull their traps every year early because "The catch is so low it just isnt cost effective to drop them" etc. , etc., on + on ! All im saying is I dont think it's too smart to harvest a species BEFORE it has propagated the species. I suggest to everyone that with the stopping of the commercial longlines the sword population will rebound some then as marine environment continues to decline and fishing pressure from the ever increasing swordfishing population increases the fish will "top out" and begin to decline just as the above mentioned species. I suggest we'll begin to get fewer and fewer big ones and start to take more and more small swords . We used to have plenty of 50# grouper , the population grew so we had 40s then 30s now we have a 24" minimum and I dont see hardly any even that big. So when someone says "the fishery is good" I have to ask "compared to when?" 40 years ago when the fish were THICK ? or last year when it was depleted ?
"Ft Lauderdale , Fishing capital of the World" ???? I used to think there were so many big dolphin out there i didnt have to worry about their depletion in my lifetime. I was wrong. I watched in just 10 years that heavy concentration of Monster dolphin go to what we have today. Compared to last year we're doing only a little worse , compared to 10 years ago we got Squat . I sincerely hope im wrong but the marine environment declined today and the number of boats headin out to the sword grounds looked like I-95. I have to say "I don't think it's a good idea to harvest a species before it has had time to propagate " . I dont think im being "adamant' I think im just telling everyone what I think is the truth. It's easy to dispute it and im open to change my mind. Simply tell me how it's GOOD for the species to harvest it before it propagates the species. It's just my opinion using time , logic and removing my personal feelings . Id love to be proven wrong. Id love to not think my 51" fish doesn't "take from" but rather "adds to" the overall health of the fishery. Someone tell me with logic how it's good for the fishery to harvest the species BEFORE it propagates the species. Im afraid logically I keep coming up with the same answer. Whether I like it or not a "spade is a spade" . Randy

dring · 03-21-2006, 07:58 AM

broadbill pro, who are you,and what boats did or do you run?

RiskTaker · 03-21-2006, 08:05 AM

Randy:

Thanks for the spell check on adament. I guess it is the wrong word applied too. My thoughts about your perspective was that you had your theory and you were sticking to it . (Unless you would be persuaded otherwise.)

Well actually, I agree with your point of view of fish stocks rebounding by allowing fish to get to breeding size. But the pressure must also be reduced... The only problem, is that I can see no way to have a reasonable balance to achieve that level of counter-pressure without a serious and hard hit to the fishermen.

Yeah, minimum (legal keeper) grouper sizes have crept up over the past 20 years in an attempt to counter the onslaught, yet the pressure persists. But how many fishing trips will you do to bring home fish if the minimum size bumps to 30".

The balance seems to be difficult to achieve. I suppose if we could have 2 billion people less on this planet, that would be a good start to bring some sort of balance back.

"Fish is dangerous and Beef if Good" and other advertising campaigns could discourage peoples demand from fish'. Well, that is a pipe dream!

What's next? Recreation only fishing with the increased size limits? The commercial angler's would probably find it cost prohibitive to achieve catches with the higher standard and fall by the wayside without explicit regulation. Prices of grouper will climb, demand will reduce (by the economic law of supply vs. demand), and poaching will continue. Yes, I think that plan can work. :bom: But what a horrible way to fish in the modern world. It is hard to accept the grim reality when you have experienced the way it used to be.

BB-Pro - A double header would be a good reason. Yeah, you got out of that one just fine. I just wonder if I have ever been hipocritical. Hell, I've got so many posts on this swordfishing subject matter, and enough rum sipping, that I am sure that I have counter-acted my own statements somewhere along the line too. To err is human: to really screw up requires a computer. Keep on posting. And send me a few numbers by PM where I may be able to find a few of those Misties an/or Yelloweye in 1800 FSW on the East side of the river. (if you don't mind.

)

Broadbill-Pro · 03-21-2006, 02:01 PM

RT - have a few good mistie holes that it only took about a case of beer to get out of the late Danny Beare, he had a knack for mugging them off cat cay. it's been a while since i have been there and i wouldn't want to steer you wrong, so after I make sure they are still there i will let you know.

Broadbill-Pro · 03-21-2006, 02:23 PM

dring - PM me and i will answer your questions. if your last name is ring, you know me.

RiskTaker · 03-21-2006, 02:43 PM

Yes Sir:

I am sure that I could muster up a few cases of preferred Barley pops and/or some really good rum to try to re-discover some deep fish holes.

Deep drop subject is still new to me. But hopefully in time, that will become old hat. Just need a few bones to get started. I am sill hawking that new LP electric reel. But it seems like everytime I get a few dollars in my pocket, there are more pressing priorities.

Last time in Bimini, I did the best I could to get some Queen Snapper and Yellow eye snapper: I bartered.

Whereas, I had a nice batch of freshly made conch salad and the other guys on Bimini Twist still had some chilled fish from the day prior, we made a nice mutual exchange for some fresh seafood. Yummy, and a conch salad to go with it too.

That was also my last visit to the Compleat Angler. I wonder what the new day will bring? Hopefully they do something really cool on Walker's Cay too if that proposed Walker's Cay Club ever takes off.

Kevinm · 03-21-2006, 03:25 PM

RT,
Call me about the Deep Dropping in Bimini. Danny Beare used to work with me for a while and we deep dropped all over the place. My current captain Danny Aldridge has a ton of numbers everywhere. Just let me know where you are going and I can drum up a few. BTW, Danny Beare was one hell of a good fisherman, not to mention a good friend.

RiskTaker · 03-21-2006, 03:35 PM

Thanks KevinM:

Talk about throwing a bone: may have to fillet up the entire Brontosaurus with that one. I will make a permanent note of that post. I may have to roll out the Barrel (of rum) in your case. Unless you just want to trade for some freshly made Conch Salad?

I can also whip up a mean Paella: some deep drop fish thrown in the mix sounds even better.

Rod Chucker · 03-21-2006, 04:17 PM

Hey RT, can you get conch? i thought it was not legal to bring em back anymore. if so, i'd love some - we used to bring back a limit every trip to bimini, but seemed like they got kinda scarce 2 years ago so we stopped. i'd be glad to trade ya some fresh mahi or sword steaks or whatever.

but getting back to the string, if all swords over 300 are female, maybe a snooky solution could work for them, say no taking swords over 300 anymore? or maybe just one per boat just in case someone catches a once in a lifetime fish? Comm. and Rec. would have to abide or it wouldnt be fair. (DUCK!) good thing nobody but Randy knows where I live. But it would have to be multi-national rule since theyre so miggratory, and I bet the rest of the world would care less about our conservation efforts.

CaptKen · 03-21-2006, 10:52 PM

I have to say that I have enjoyed this thread with the help from BBP and UB stepping up to bat, I have to say though that I think Darkside hit the nail right on the head on page 2, We can debate size limits all We want, I dont believe its going to happen as long as other Countries are involved.
I too have commerical fishing in my bloodline with family members netting mullet on the West coast and others handlining kingfish and others handlining yellowtails, My Dad worked these boats as a Kid, Teaching Me these techniques when I was a kid, I remember sitting off Ft.Laud beach on the second reef with 5lb mangroves chummed up like a hungry school of dolphin, I remember making one drift and slamming 2 swords in the 200lb range and being in the inlet by 11 and then going to school in the am, Its just not going to happen anymore.
My Dad still freaks out if I come home and tell him we let a leagal sword swim away or slammed a few dolphin for dinner and then pulled out of the school. I guess its the commerical side of his brain.
I feel for you guys.

03-21-2006, 08:05 AM	#84 (permalink)
RiskTaker Grander Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pompano Beach, Florida, USA Best Catch: Had one once, then she took the boat away Posts: 1,978	Rush xxx, I mean Randy is Right. Randy: Thanks for the spell check on adament. I guess it is the wrong word applied too. My thoughts about your perspective was that you had your theory and you were sticking to it . (Unless you would be persuaded otherwise.) Well actually, I agree with your point of view of fish stocks rebounding by allowing fish to get to breeding size. But the pressure must also be reduced... The only problem, is that I can see no way to have a reasonable balance to achieve that level of counter-pressure without a serious and hard hit to the fishermen. Yeah, minimum (legal keeper) grouper sizes have crept up over the past 20 years in an attempt to counter the onslaught, yet the pressure persists. But how many fishing trips will you do to bring home fish if the minimum size bumps to 30". The balance seems to be difficult to achieve. I suppose if we could have 2 billion people less on this planet, that would be a good start to bring some sort of balance back. "Fish is dangerous and Beef if Good" and other advertising campaigns could discourage peoples demand from fish'. Well, that is a pipe dream! What's next? Recreation only fishing with the increased size limits? The commercial angler's would probably find it cost prohibitive to achieve catches with the higher standard and fall by the wayside without explicit regulation. Prices of grouper will climb, demand will reduce (by the economic law of supply vs. demand), and poaching will continue. Yes, I think that plan can work. :bom: But what a horrible way to fish in the modern world. It is hard to accept the grim reality when you have experienced the way it used to be. BB-Pro - A double header would be a good reason. Yeah, you got out of that one just fine. I just wonder if I have ever been hipocritical. Hell, I've got so many posts on this swordfishing subject matter, and enough rum sipping, that I am sure that I have counter-acted my own statements somewhere along the line too. To err is human: to really screw up requires a computer. Keep on posting. And send me a few numbers by PM where I may be able to find a few of those Misties an/or Yelloweye in 1800 FSW on the East side of the river. (if you don't mind. )

03-21-2006, 03:35 PM	#89 (permalink)
RiskTaker Grander Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pompano Beach, Florida, USA Best Catch: Had one once, then she took the boat away Posts: 1,978	Sounds like I will need to go on a deep drop quest. Thanks KevinM: Talk about throwing a bone: may have to fillet up the entire Brontosaurus with that one. I will make a permanent note of that post. I may have to roll out the Barrel (of rum) in your case. Unless you just want to trade for some freshly made Conch Salad? I can also whip up a mean Paella: some deep drop fish thrown in the mix sounds even better.

03-21-2006, 10:52 PM	#91 (permalink)
CaptKen Hooked Up Join Date: May 2004 Location: Sunrise/Dania Fla. Occupation: Power Plant Control Room Operator Posts: 856	I have to say that I have enjoyed this thread with the help from BBP and UB stepping up to bat, I have to say though that I think Darkside hit the nail right on the head on page 2, We can debate size limits all We want, I dont believe its going to happen as long as other Countries are involved. I too have commerical fishing in my bloodline with family members netting mullet on the West coast and others handlining kingfish and others handlining yellowtails, My Dad worked these boats as a Kid, Teaching Me these techniques when I was a kid, I remember sitting off Ft.Laud beach on the second reef with 5lb mangroves chummed up like a hungry school of dolphin, I remember making one drift and slamming 2 swords in the 200lb range and being in the inlet by 11 and then going to school in the am, Its just not going to happen anymore. My Dad still freaks out if I come home and tell him we let a leagal sword swim away or slammed a few dolphin for dinner and then pulled out of the school. I guess its the commerical side of his brain. I feel for you guys. __________________ http://home.comcast.net/~CaptKen1

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03-21-2006, 06:32 AM	#81 (permalink)
Broadbill-Pro Grander Join Date: Jan 2006 Best Catch: When I look at a Commercial Fishing Vessel I see 300 million Americans and you only see the Crew Posts: 1,408	RT - forgot to mention that the 250 would have to be part of a double header (did i squeeze out of that one?)

03-21-2006, 07:26 AM	#82 (permalink)
Randy Hooked Up Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 124	I hope the regulation of the Sword fishery doesnt go like others. It's great the snook are coming back but again but Im left at the dock here watching fishermen cleaning HUNDREDS of 20" dolphin with comparatively few large one since the 20" minimum was set. Im looking (diving) at the reefs/wrecks for a SINGLE grouper over 24" and seeing NONE though once in awhile someone catches one. Im looking for all those monster snapper that used to be EVERYWHERE as I was growing up thick under every docked boat . Now im watching as the commercial lobster guys pull their traps every year early because "The catch is so low it just isnt cost effective to drop them" etc. , etc., on + on ! All im saying is I dont think it's too smart to harvest a species BEFORE it has propagated the species. I suggest to everyone that with the stopping of the commercial longlines the sword population will rebound some then as marine environment continues to decline and fishing pressure from the ever increasing swordfishing population increases the fish will "top out" and begin to decline just as the above mentioned species. I suggest we'll begin to get fewer and fewer big ones and start to take more and more small swords . We used to have plenty of 50# grouper , the population grew so we had 40s then 30s now we have a 24" minimum and I dont see hardly any even that big. So when someone says "the fishery is good" I have to ask "compared to when?" 40 years ago when the fish were THICK ? or last year when it was depleted ? "Ft Lauderdale , Fishing capital of the World" ???? I used to think there were so many big dolphin out there i didnt have to worry about their depletion in my lifetime. I was wrong. I watched in just 10 years that heavy concentration of Monster dolphin go to what we have today. Compared to last year we're doing only a little worse , compared to 10 years ago we got Squat . I sincerely hope im wrong but the marine environment declined today and the number of boats headin out to the sword grounds looked like I-95. I have to say "I don't think it's a good idea to harvest a species before it has had time to propagate " . I dont think im being "adamant' I think im just telling everyone what I think is the truth. It's easy to dispute it and im open to change my mind. Simply tell me how it's GOOD for the species to harvest it before it propagates the species. It's just my opinion using time , logic and removing my personal feelings . Id love to be proven wrong. Id love to not think my 51" fish doesn't "take from" but rather "adds to" the overall health of the fishery. Someone tell me with logic how it's good for the fishery to harvest the species BEFORE it propagates the species. Im afraid logically I keep coming up with the same answer. Whether I like it or not a "spade is a spade" . Randy

03-21-2006, 07:58 AM	#83 (permalink)
dring Lines In Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 42	broadbill pro, who are you,and what boats did or do you run?

03-21-2006, 02:01 PM	#85 (permalink)
Broadbill-Pro Grander Join Date: Jan 2006 Best Catch: When I look at a Commercial Fishing Vessel I see 300 million Americans and you only see the Crew Posts: 1,408	RT - have a few good mistie holes that it only took about a case of beer to get out of the late Danny Beare, he had a knack for mugging them off cat cay. it's been a while since i have been there and i wouldn't want to steer you wrong, so after I make sure they are still there i will let you know.

03-21-2006, 02:23 PM	#86 (permalink)
Broadbill-Pro Grander Join Date: Jan 2006 Best Catch: When I look at a Commercial Fishing Vessel I see 300 million Americans and you only see the Crew Posts: 1,408	dring - PM me and i will answer your questions. if your last name is ring, you know me.

03-21-2006, 02:43 PM	#87 (permalink)
RiskTaker Grander Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pompano Beach, Florida, USA Best Catch: Had one once, then she took the boat away Posts: 1,978	Yes Sir: I am sure that I could muster up a few cases of preferred Barley pops and/or some really good rum to try to re-discover some deep fish holes. Deep drop subject is still new to me. But hopefully in time, that will become old hat. Just need a few bones to get started. I am sill hawking that new LP electric reel. But it seems like everytime I get a few dollars in my pocket, there are more pressing priorities. Last time in Bimini, I did the best I could to get some Queen Snapper and Yellow eye snapper: I bartered. Whereas, I had a nice batch of freshly made conch salad and the other guys on Bimini Twist still had some chilled fish from the day prior, we made a nice mutual exchange for some fresh seafood. Yummy, and a conch salad to go with it too. That was also my last visit to the Compleat Angler. I wonder what the new day will bring? Hopefully they do something really cool on Walker's Cay too if that proposed Walker's Cay Club ever takes off.

03-21-2006, 03:25 PM	#88 (permalink)
Kevinm Lines In Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 32	RT, Call me about the Deep Dropping in Bimini. Danny Beare used to work with me for a while and we deep dropped all over the place. My current captain Danny Aldridge has a ton of numbers everywhere. Just let me know where you are going and I can drum up a few. BTW, Danny Beare was one hell of a good fisherman, not to mention a good friend.

03-21-2006, 04:17 PM	#90 (permalink)
Rod Chucker Lines In Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 90	Hey RT, can you get conch? i thought it was not legal to bring em back anymore. if so, i'd love some - we used to bring back a limit every trip to bimini, but seemed like they got kinda scarce 2 years ago so we stopped. i'd be glad to trade ya some fresh mahi or sword steaks or whatever. but getting back to the string, if all swords over 300 are female, maybe a snooky solution could work for them, say no taking swords over 300 anymore? or maybe just one per boat just in case someone catches a once in a lifetime fish? Comm. and Rec. would have to abide or it wouldnt be fair. (DUCK!) good thing nobody but Randy knows where I live. But it would have to be multi-national rule since theyre so miggratory, and I bet the rest of the world would care less about our conservation efforts.

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