rec. vs commercial

[wackme]

randy, have u been fishing between the san remo and bontyon martini glass lately. there have been a considerable amout of kingfish off there lately , about three weeks ago me and 5 other guys limited out on kings , we were fishing DEAD SARDINES, not even live bait, then the week after that off san remo me and my friend limited out again with one king over 25 pounds and another pushing 45 pounds, and last weekend we limited out again. plus each time we have gone we have seen at least five dolphin and one time over 100 , even though i dont know what they are doing here now there here and there are lots of them. i feel that if u find the fish they will be there and u will get the bite u are looking for , maybe not as good as 20 or 30 years ago but more than enough action. for example the kingfish have ALWAYS been strong when i go to hobe sound every couple months, one day they will bite like crazy and the next they will swim right by ur baits like nohtings in there way. i think the problem is not enough room for all the fish there were.between about government cut and bontoyn beach we have a section about a mile maybe two to three miles of fishable reef , as for kingfish, grouper, snapper, cobia, and sometimes other migratory fish dophin , tuna, wahoo, etc. the areas such as fowey and further south and the breakers north all have more than 3 miles of reef for the fish to travel on , and are more spread and not hit as hard and by as many fisherman , per mile ,as the fish between the first areas. as u randy i like to blame rec fisherman too, but not from this era , i put the blame towards the guys , not specifically to anyone on this fourm!!!!!, from back when killing everything was the way to fish and catch as much as you could. the people in central and south america need the fish as much as we need jobs , not all but ,most of them are poor and need the money and cant get other jobs.

juz thought i should put in my opinion

[Randy]

Hi Ken and Wackme , Ken , ive been watchin the area along with a few (Rodchucker) for a few years . The area your talking about the stinkhole to Dania pier (it,s really extended North of the inlet someplaces) is under attack from a species of algae that looks like long red hair covering everything. It kills the reef (whats left of it) . Many inquiries by us into it have resulted in the blame going to the outflows nutrient level to underground leeching from the port (supposedly many years ago the port didnt have the stringent rules of today and the spilled fuel continues to leech from the soil ) to outflow from New River. Right now we have just in Florida The Red tide killiing the West coast , The leeching Keys septic tanks, SIX outflows, re- re dredging for our beaches (hurricane season last year gonna make us do it again) PT. Everglades is slated for widening and deepening so they can bring in LARGER ships, and a couple of companies have gotten the OK to run natural gas pipelines right across our reefline directly into Dania, increasing water temp from global warming (i have a dive record book from 10 years ago and water temp was 68 degrees, Ive never seen that again) We had extensive coral bleaching a couple years ago that would take thousands of years to regrow (if it was growing) . The reef your seeing isnt growing, Granted theres small areas still alive but most is just deadrock now. Our beaches have been closed for "Human fecal matter" more then 3 times as many times as in previous years. Just my opinion but I think this (one two punch) is taking a toll on everything. It always amazes me that people coming out of Pt Everglades dont notice the water is GREEN ! Green North or south depending on current but then goes clear again . I hear fishermen on the radio telling each other "green water 3 miles North etc." but doesnt anyone wonder WHY Pt Everglades offshore is PEA GREEN ? Pt of Miami is clear, Haulover is clear, Hillsborough is clear but Everglades is Pea Green . This is just Florida , We're supposedly under stringent water rules unlike other places in the world where you can just "Dump it at sea" . Logic tells me it has to have a cumulative affect on all the sea . Im on or under the sea all the time and it tears my heart out . I (and others ) have made multiple inquiries to multiple agencies and theyre aware but nothing seems to get done. SIX OUTFLOWS when other states have none ? The water from the outflows are supposed to be within Federal nutrient levels (Clean) but I dare anyone to drink a glass of water from them. All those bait fish hangin out at the stinkhole are there because theres PLENTY TO EAT ! Hi Wackme , as for Dolphin , ten years ago you'd be lucky to get adolphin hit diring winter. It's the ocean and nothing is for sure but come first cold front the dolphin rods were put away and the King and Grouper rods brought out. The cold fronts would drive the bait (mullet) offshore and South making the surface of the sea black for miles ! Id stand below Newport Pier , throw a 6 ft castnet and laugh because it wasnt possible to drag it up to the beach it was so heavy. You had to open it to keep your net. Of course with those bait came an incredible number of predators . We'd go out with finger mullet by Fowey light throw a couple dozen over and they'd school directly under the hull ! They were scared to death and with good reason. Every bait we'd put out would just splash and you better be reeling back in because your on. Within the last ten years ive watched as this pittance of mullet wandered down. Now im catching King both winter and Summer , theyre gettin smaller , same with Dolphin. My biggest peeve is "sandwich dolphin" being cleaned at the ramp. as per my previous post It's hard to believe these fish at 20" have propagated the species a couple times. I dont know where the MFC gets their info before slotting or minimum sizing fish. Dolphin was my favorite, Id go out and a normal trip would for example bring 2-4 25-27 lb with a 30-35 lb sometimes. We didnt bother with anything less then 20# and would pull lines and move if we got into these small ones. (I still do) I really dont want anything less then 20# and unless gut hooked or dead release it myself. You couldnt go out to anything floating or a weedline and not get hammered. Then within just a coupe years they dwindled . At first like everyone i guess i thought it was just a fluke. Sure once in awhile id run across a few but not consistently like before . Now many years have gone by and I can no longer fool myself , Those days are gone. Sure I get dolphin here + there , but im not getting 35# dolphin 5 miles from the inlet anymore. We do now "Run + Gun" out of Pt Everglade 15 miles the set the GPS on Haulover and make a big circling loop towards Haulover. We fish everything within this area and though we get a 20#+ once in awhile most of the time we come back having only hit schoolies .10-12 years ago I fished BellSouth Dolphin Tournament and got second place. We took two 27# dolphin and a 35# 3 miles East of Pt Everglades whistle bouy. We were beat out of first by a boat with a 43# just East of us. 3 miles East of the whistle bouy is 5 miles out ! I've never seen this again. I think I never will. I may not be too up on Swords (13 trips 9 keepers now) But Dolphin I know , There were 600+ boats in that tournament . I stick to my guns guys , I think it's a accumulation of factors depleting our fishery. At least until someone can show me proof of different. Ps. some of us have written + complained and offered to get evidence concerning the outflows but to date they still are pouring out billions of gallons of "treated" effluent every day. that long red what looks like ladies red hair is healthy. It thrives is summer when the water is warmer but I see now it does OK in 72 degrees too. Randy

[RiskTaker]

Good posting Randy:

I'm not sure what the answer is, nor what I am willing to do personally to make it better. I would find it difficult to stop polluting; especially with our present lifestyle. A trip to the swordgrounds burns a good amount of fossil fuels. And the economic engine it takes to generate the cash to pay for the stuff to put it all together, just keeps the pollution generator churning at cruising speed. Certainly a far cry from fishing a canal bank with a cane pole or inexpensive spinner and bringing home the catch in a palm basket strapped to the back of a bicycle.

A seriuosly reduced people population would help in a favorable way! I just can't wait until a Billion plus Chinese people (no offense just a simple example) has climbed the industrial evolution ladder and all have cars, plus 1 out of a 100 with a powerboat. But nobody wants a war of attrition, except for perhaps a radical Islamic retaliation. Perhaps the Holy wars were not such a good idea afterall. What goes around comes around, I suppose. Perhaps they will have their say some day if we are not ever vigilent. But again, I would be hesitent to repeat history by leading the way, premptively.

But I feel your same heart-ache. I remember seeing PenneKamp Reef for the first time for my certification check-out dive in 1978 at the age of 12. Beautiful reef with immense stands of Elkhorn coral pushing to within several feet of the surface and clear water.

I've even seen some elkhorn coral just north of Hillsboro inlet in about 45 ft. of water around or prior to the operation of the outfall at N. 16 St. in Pompano.

Within just one lifetme we are witnessing some very phenominal transformations to our homespot. Most of which are not euphoric. I still do not have a spandex jacket either.

[CaptKen]

That Red Hair you talk about, My diving buddies and I named it KODIUM,
I have spearfished and caught lobsters along the 3rd reef from Hallendale past hillsbourgh for more than 30 years, To see the decline I have seen in that time would make you sick to your stomach !

Then again its all about greed and money money money.

[quack quack]

Randy very very good posts :salut: :thumleft: I think your theory is 100% on target.Stopping the pollution should be every fisherman's goal.I do not care if you are a Rec guy or a Com guy your #1 goal should be to protect the waters in which you fish.I am so happy to see that commercial fishing is not entirely to blame for the current fish stocks we now have.I hope this opens some peoples eyes and minds just a little.

[Randy]

Hey Guys , It does my heart good to see people who care. It's hard enough to tell people about these things that go out there and see them for themselves. Imagine trying to explain to "landlubbers" that the ocean is changing and it affects them. If any of you wish to try to help i know OceanWatch foundation has been fighting and investigating the outflow algae bloom. I know they are always looking for help from people with boats. The bottom line is our outflows save a lot of $ because we dont have deep wells to get rid of the effluent like other places and upgrading would increase our sewage bills . Trying to get the population to accept an increase sewage bill monthly is a hard uphill battle especially when "landlubbers" dont see the affect it's having. It's a political quagmire . Who's gonna vote for the guy who wants to increase our monthly sewage bill for something we cant see ? (excuse the pun but "get my drift ?" ) Randy

[Rod Chucker]

as always Cap. Randy has got the jist of the situation. thats what I love about him.

[Sword Hunter]

I say get rid of all the long linners and give all the local guys permits to sell swords. Same limits as rec guys hand gear only mabye raise it to 50" for them guys selling. As long as we let the small ones go and we keep having bad weather and west wind I dont think we have to wory. Plus they migrate on the out side of the bahamas and are mainly consitrated more south than here. There are a few feeding and spawning grounds locals access. But the time slot to get them is short. Here is my point. You guys act like every sword in the world is swimming on the 50 line. Its a big ocean and as long as its clean and there arent long liners out there rapeing the smalls and thier friends it will be ok. Swordfishing has only gotten better in the last five yrs and sword fisherman #'s have doubbled not to mention all the new technology. Its only going to get better from here. the biggest prob I have is the trafic on 95 AKA the 50 line. Just keep letting the smalls go and fish single hooks. I cant stress that enough.

[quack quack]

Hunter:You think the 50 line is crowded now if you let everyone sell fish the boats would be ass thick out there.I guess you have never seen the Blue fin fleet up north.If you could sell fish bad weather and a west wind would not stop most guys if cash was involved.The great fishing we now have would turn to crap in 6 months :shock: You would have fighting,boats sinking and all other types of bad stuff.

[Warrior]

Been there. OBX is fun and challenging for the reward. They don't like us Florida boys much up there in the winter. I imagine it would be the same down here if an open season was put into place even with a high permit cost. Its the allure, like tournaments, that attract fisherman. I fished on a 31 contender in gail force winds, 27 degree temps, and 8' seas breaking over the transom outside of Morehead. For some reason, I would do it all over again. Must of been the 369# core bluefin we cought. Question, when its rough...really rough, and you raise a fish(sailfish, marlin, bluefin, sword, whatever) is it me, or does it seem to calm down?

[quack quack]

It is called adrenalin

[jerry]

actually the beating tail of the fish actually creates waves that pulsate in a direct oppostional wave lenght of the ocean waves. The bigger and harder the fish fight the more of these oposing wave lenghts are created thereby causing the lessening of the sea heights.
:shock:
And its not even April 1 yet.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Warrior]

Jerry, I think we would get along quite well. My thoughts were more primitave, but yours sound better. Jamaica? Any marlin in the trench right now?

[Randy]

Good thoughts ! Both letting the rec fishermen sell and the problem of "if we do too many boats " If only things could be simple. The 50" is good if thats after the research says the fish has had at least two litters by then. Personally I think they need to find out before the set a limit. Right now its at 47 can you imagine if that fish has pups at 47 1/2 ? Im curious , has anyone ever cleaned one with babies ? and was it 47- 50 ? Does anyone know at what size they reproduce ? Randy

[Warrior]

I think you will find varying opinions on what size these fish can reproduce. One thing I can say, larger fish produce more eggs.

[jerry]

Warrior, not to derail this thread, we had a wahoo/yellowfin tourny this past weekend and the boats saw quite few marlin.

[Warrior]

I appreciate that info. Hopefully that is a good sign for our season in the Islands. Horrible marlin fishing last year out of Cat and Rum where we normally go.
Any size to the fish in the tournament?

[Broadbill-Pro]

scientists say that a female is about 150 lb. before the first spawn, that's BS. my experience is that a 70-80 lb. dressed fish (+/- 90-100 lb. whole weight) sword does produce roe. whether that roe is as fertile as a 300 lb. slobs roe, i don't know. certainly there is less of it.

BTW - letting the rec's sell is a bad idea. a few years ago commercial fisherman were forced out, why throw sh-t in their faces now. it will only lead to more tension and possibly a chance for them to get a foot back in the door. be happy with what you have and don't push your luck.

[jerry]

nope, everything was running kind of small this year. Largest wahoo was 59lbs and the largest yft was 75lbs. Had a lot of each though so that made up for it.
What time of year you fishing cat and rum? Been thinking of taking my boat up that way for a few weeks.

[Warrior]

We usually get to Cat Island at the end of April and stay there until the end of June. If you go, You want to be there mid May thru Mid June. Wahoo till early may, Tunas all the time, and blues/whites thru June. They have a mutton run in may that is awesome 15-25#ers. I'm ready to go now!!!