Commercial Fisherman?? You tell me!

[reel life]

so if allowed to keep more BFT they would not try and catch more knowing they pay $15-$20 and swords pay maybe $4 closer to $3?

[fish]

with these Rec's They don't know squat, You keep on try to educating them and they come back with these stupid challenges Like The Beast he ask for
Facts and You shoved them Down His Throat and he ran away like a little guppy. You Guy's should be Honored to have such a fisherman like My Son
to even giving you the time of day other then some of his knowledge, Any Idiot can get a 100 ton license and claim to be a Great Charter Captain.
But put Your Ass in a Wheelhouse for 25 yrs. then you just might be on the level to talk to My Son....

[CaptKen]

Originally Posted by fish

You Guy's should be Honored to have such a fisherman like My Son

I enjoy reading everything that He writes and sharing his experiences at sea. I think its great to have 2 differnt views from both sides of the fence.

[Broadbill-Pro]

Originally Posted by reel life

so if allowed to keep more BFT they would not try and catch more knowing they pay $15-$20 and swords pay maybe $4 closer to $3?

I still don't think you get the point, no extra effort is required to catch more Bluefin. They are and always have been caught, just not allowed to be sold.

Currently PLL can keep 1 Bfin for 2,000# of other species, 2 Bfin for 6,000# and 3 Bfin for 30,000#. For many vessels the 30,000# of other species is unobtainable, yet all PLL vessels continue fishing beyond a catch of 6000#, even the small 50' boats. At the least they should allow the 3rd fish to be kept at 10,000# since that is closer to a completed trip and for vessels that can hold more than 10,000#, there is incentive to stay longer with the hope of a fresh Bfin at the end of the trip.

here is the NMFS link:

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/sfa/hms/bro...e_06_11_09.pdf

[GT Fish]

Originally Posted by fish

with these Rec's They don't know squat, You keep on try to educating them and they come back with these stupid challenges Like The Beast he ask for
Facts and You shoved them Down His Throat and he ran away like a little guppy. You Guy's should be Honored to have such a fisherman like My Son
to even giving you the time of day other then some of his knowledge, Any Idiot can get a 100 ton license and claim to be a Great Charter Captain.
But put Your Ass in a Wheelhouse for 25 yrs. then you just might be on the level to talk to My Son....

WOW! You mean all this time i thought us Rec's had half a brain??

I shall honor all commercials to the highest standard from now on...:not worthy:

[reel life]

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

I still don't think you get the point, no extra effort is required to catch more Bluefin.


there is incentive to stay longer with the hope of a fresh Bfin at the end of the trip.

here is the NMFS link:

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/sfa/hms/bro...e_06_11_09.pdf

so by your statement there would be more effort to catch more BFT by staying longer. do you think that is good for the BFT that are currently over fished and currently being over fished?
sounds to me like you would only target swords so you could keep more tuna, just like the rest of the PLL fleet that abandoned the swordfish fishery for the pursuit of tunas.

[Broadbill-Pro]

Originally Posted by reel life

so by your statement there would be more effort to catch more BFT by staying longer. do you think that is good for the BFT that are currently over fished and currently being over fished?
sounds to me like you would only target swords so you could keep more tuna, just like the rest of the PLL fleet that abandoned the swordfish fishery for the pursuit of tunas.

Bfin don't wait for the box to be full before they bite, chances are that the day you catch one is the day you catch 3. Your analysis of what a Bfin is worth is unrealistic, that fish caught on the TV show was lean and probably worth less than $5 lb. That's half of what a decent day of swordishing is worth, but the extra income does help.


I have to ask, is your profession the passion of your life and meets all your financial expectations? If so you are lucky, if not you are chasing tuna also.

[ccrider]

Originally Posted by fish

with these Rec's They don't know squat, You keep on try to educating them and they come back with these stupid challenges Like The Beast he ask for
Facts and You shoved them Down His Throat and he ran away like a little guppy. You Guy's should be Honored to have such a fisherman like My Son
to even giving you the time of day other then some of his knowledge, Any Idiot can get a 100 ton license and claim to be a Great Charter Captain.
But put Your Ass in a Wheelhouse for 25 yrs. then you just might be on the level to talk to My Son....

you are right any idiot can get a 100 ton ticket and string 40 miles of line with a thousand hooks and catch a few fish, crush the fish till you have to move to another location, and do it again, then move to the pacific and do it some more.
then claim to be the greatest thing since sliced bread.

[Harry Klauber]

Originally Posted by ccrider

you are right any idiot can get a 100 ton ticket and string 40 miles of line with a thousand hooks and catch a few fish, crush the fish till you have to move to another location, and do it again, then move to the pacific and do it some more.
then claim to be the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Crrider,
I don't usually make it a point of bringing up the lack of understanding with which some people write but in this case you stuck your chin out there and you kind of deserve to get it clipped.

First of all you DO NOT require any USCG license to run a commercial fishing vessel. NONE- ZERO- ZIPPO- ZILCH. A license is only required if you take people out for a fee (charter/headboat captain) or you operate a large sea going vessel. SOME commercial fishing boat operators sit for licenses as it reduces insurance rates but they are not a requirement for participating in the fishing industry.

I'm certain you have watched the Deadliest Catch as we all have. I would be willing to bet that hardly ANY of those captain's that you see hold any kind of license and they are not your every day run of the mill guys doing an average job. I couldn't do it and I'm darn sure without even knowing you would be willing to bet you couldn't either. The ingenuity that gets them through every season clearly shows they are NOT idiots.

If you think running a 30 mile long line is ALL that being a longline skipper is about you are so sadly misinformed that it is pathetic. As an operator of any vessel that remains at sea for extended periods of time you have so many things to deal with not the least of which is the weather and the safety of your vessel and crew. Breakdowns occur where there are NO repair facilities and suddenly you go from captain to engineer in a heartbeat. Maybe a guy takes a bad fall and needs 20 or 30 stitches so then you go from captain to medic. Or how about when you get on a bad trip, and all captains have them, and you have to manage fuel and bait remaining so as to not run out of either BEFORE your trip is over.

Having spent my life at sea I have the utmost respect for people who challenge themselves every day they go to work and face situations that you could never dream of. Sometimes all we hope for is a safe return to our families.

You might not like Vinnie, some do and some don't, but don't ever think what he did was so easy and don't come off as thinking just because someone is telling you what their life experiences have been that they think they are the greatest thing since sliced white. You have no idea the personal sacrifices he might have made in his work. Until you do it I'd suggest you take an arm chair quarterback's seat and watch and comment on what you see and hold back with the insults. You haven't earned the right to insult anyone and I can tell that just by the way you wrote. I'm sure most commercial fishing boat operators forgot more than you will be priveleged to ever know. I spent 35 years at sea and I am still learning today from people that do what I did.

Remember - you have made - what 7 posts? "It's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt". Also remember who started this - it wasn't me. I am just defending anyone that has the balls to go to sea, in any capacity, to earn a very difficult living.

Sorry if I came across tough on you but you sort of deserved it as you obviously took some personal dislike for someone and generalized it in a way that offended me. You can feel free to respond in any way you deem appropriate. Harry

[nativetrade]

well put CHIEF

[Jagsare1]

[QUOTE=Broadbill-Pro;121834][


This year's (2008) Open proved to be one of the most exciting and memorable in the tournament's 35 year history. With 365 whites (95.6% of which were released), 26 blues (23 of which were released) and more winners than ever before due to the new Daily Meat Fish category, the 35th Annual White Marlin Open will not soon be forgotten.
QUOTE]


I have been reading this thread and on at least 2 occasions, Broadbill-Pro mentions a tournament where 400 white marlin were killed. 2 problems with that. First, don't round up from 365 to 400, it just exaggerates your point and since most of this discussion is about numbers, you really should use the right numbers. Second, then you provide the facts...365 not 400 and one tiny fact you left out...95.6% of them were released. That means approx 16 were killed, not the "400" you keep mentioning. I find it very difficult to try and see your side of it when you are playing with numbers like that. We could argue about how many of the released fish survived but since neither of us are God and know the answer to that, no point is discussing.

Now, to be fair, I am not going to defend those 16 dead. I personally won't kill a marlin, no matter the color(blue, black, white) but I will admit that I would consider it if I fished that tournament and there was money on the line. I know it has been posted on this site somewhere and it is fair to bring it back up, the so-called research vessels(aka longliners) that were allowed back into the closed areas to swordfish have killed more than 16 billfish and that is just 2 boats.

I asked a question on the thread that was removed(never found out why) and that question was about what we can agree on. Can we agree that swordfish were fished to a point that you could hardly catch one in the 70's and 80's in the Atlantic? Can we agree that it was not recreational anglers that caused that problem? Can we agree that longliners caused it? The logical final question is, what is going to prevent it from happening again if the closed areas are opened to longlining? There really is no other conclusion except to say, yes, we are going to re-play history and I find that frustratingly stupid.

I will certainly agree with Broadbill that there are some dumb regulations that he points out with the comment that the bft don't always hit when the boat is full(or something to that effect). I am not sure what the answer to that is. But with the condition of the bft biomass, shouldn't we really be lowering limits and quotas? I also understand the problem with other countries and what they are doing but it doesn't help the fish by us trying to take more and them overfishing. The problem is difficult and when the fish are no longer viable, then we won't have anything to argue about.

[Broadbill-Pro]

[QUOTE=Jagsare1;123339]

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

[


This year's (2008) Open proved to be one of the most exciting and memorable in the tournament's 35 year history. With 365 whites (95.6% of which were released), 26 blues (23 of which were released) and more winners than ever before due to the new Daily Meat Fish category, the 35th Annual White Marlin Open will not soon be forgotten.
QUOTE]


I have been reading this thread and on at least 2 occasions, Broadbill-Pro mentions a tournament where 400 white marlin were killed. 2 problems with that. First, don't round up from 365 to 400, it just exaggerates your point and since most of this discussion is about numbers, you really should use the right numbers. Second, then you provide the facts...365 not 400 and one tiny fact you left out...95.6% of them were released. That means approx 16 were killed, not the "400" you keep mentioning. I find it very difficult to try and see your side of it when you are playing with numbers like that. We could argue about how many of the released fish survived but since neither of us are God and know the answer to that, no point is discussing.

First of all the quote above is not mine, it is from Marlin magazine. Second, even my fierest opponents know that I am not stupid enough to say that 400 fish were killed. You can copy us where you read that if you like, but it does not exist. The rounded off figure is by far less than the amount of fish that were caught, released and LOST during battle, yes the fish that were lost had in the least their day or possibly their life ruined by a recreational fisherman. You keep believing that only 16 of 365 fish died during that event and we will pretend that you know anything about what you write.



Now, to be fair, I am not going to defend those 16 dead. I personally won't kill a marlin, no matter the color(blue, black, white) but I will admit that I would consider it if I fished that tournament and there was money on the line. I know it has been posted on this site somewhere and it is fair to bring it back up, the so-called research vessels(aka longliners) that were allowed back into the closed areas to swordfish have killed more than 16 billfish and that is just 2 boats.


Careful your starting to sound like a commercial fisherman who will kill for money! It would be a benefit to you if those "research vessels" did kill marlin beyond what is considered allowable, how else can NMFS make a determination to keep the area closed? Your not scared that they might find the bycatch within an acceptable range are you?


I asked a question on the thread that was removed(never found out why) and that question was about what we can agree on. Can we agree that swordfish were fished to a point that you could hardly catch one in the 70's and 80's in the Atlantic? Can we agree that it was not recreational anglers that caused that problem? Can we agree that longliners caused it? The logical final question is, what is going to prevent it from happening again if the closed areas are opened to longlining? There really is no other conclusion except to say, yes, we are going to re-play history and I find that frustratingly stupid.


Listen, you asked the question and I answered it, you refuse to accept the answer. I will again tell you that the 70's and 80's was the most profitable era in PLL history. Yes, Longlines did reduce the FEC stock, but it was LL's fishing on the spawning grounds of the mid-Atlantic ridge and Caribbean sea that did it. The FEC fishery was well on it's way to recovery before the FEC was closed. The Caribbean fleet no longer exists due to multiple reasons. You are getting a free history lesson, please pay attention.


I will certainly agree with Broadbill that there are some dumb regulations that he points out with the comment that the bft don't always hit when the boat is full(or something to that effect). I am not sure what the answer to that is. But with the condition of the bft biomass, shouldn't we really be lowering limits and quotas? I also understand the problem with other countries and what they are doing but it doesn't help the fish by us trying to take more and them overfishing. The problem is difficult and when the fish are no longer viable, then we won't have anything to argue about.

Bluefin are protected from directed commercial fishing by PLL's and are considered a bycatch only. The only directed fishery for Bluefin is recreational and general catagory rod and reel. If Bfin is listed as CITES, I don't believe that will reduce harvest all that much. What will happen is that rather than eating kack yellowfin in Fort Lauderdale, you will have the option of bluefin. The regulation would only limit export of the product.

Reducing the ICCAT North Atlantic quota is the best idea. Even if that were to take place, there would be room for US Fisherman to retain more fish since we are forced to discard so much each year.

[Uncle Buck]

Commercial fishermen harvest fish to make an income.

Recreational anglers catch fish to win a prize. (in a tournament setting)

That's the difference. Can we all get along now?

[Broadbill-Pro]

Thanks Buck, this thread is finished....

[Disco Lady]

Originally Posted by Uncle Buck

Commercial fishermen harvest fish to make an income.

Recreational anglers catch fish to win a prize. (in a tournament setting)

That's the difference. Can we all get along now?

COÑO!!!!!!!