Jugs??

andylrd · 05-10-2005, 08:56 PM

Hi Guys,

I am a northern canyon fisherman and see all the references to jugs.

We are use to balloons or floats up here. Could someone explain how the jugs are set up?

Thanks
Andy

swordfish123 · 05-10-2005, 10:34 PM

Lots of folks around here use balloons, its really just preferance. I used to use jugs and i'd just put a lightstick inside and seal it shut. Then i'd take some wax line or somethign of that nature and tie a loop around the handle, then i'd use a rubberband to attach that loop to the main line. Its a little more hassle with jugs, maybe i just dont know the best way to do it :?: .

Dissadvantage of jugs--> If you use balloons, you tape the lighstick to the top of the balloon. This makes the balloon top heavy, and when you attach the balloon to the mainline, the balloon will snap straight up and down when put in the water. If a sword hits and is swimming straight to the surface, your balloon will no longer be counterbalanced, and will become top heavy. If your balloon suddenly tips over, you know theres soemthin foolin around with your bait.

Also, jugs are bulky and you have to collect them. I'd stick with balloons. 0123

FinalPoint · 05-11-2005, 11:21 AM

Well put Stephen. The way I see it, balloons are quick, very effective, and break off easy when a fish starts running (and they are probably more environmentally friendly than jugs).

RiskTaker · 05-11-2005, 12:24 PM

I'm a jug man myself but I still have and use balloons, probably because I do not have enough jugs. A few notes about the two: jug or balloon.

1 - you can rig the jug or balloon so that it is top heavy and will fall over when the weight counterbalance is released. (light on a stick or on top of the jug and light taped on top of the balloon).

2 - the jug can be rigged to break-way or can be permanently attached. (For permanent attachment, my preference, I use a longline clip to attach this to one of my captive waxline loops. (Recall that they offer a convenient measurement mark, an easy attachment location especially for the longline clip as well as an additional chafe barrier to anything attached to your mainline, weight or jug or balloon).

3. The one thing that I must say that tilts me in the favor of jugs is that they are far easier to manage than balloons when it comes to checking your lines and re-setting your spread at a different location. When I haul in my jug lines, I simply detach the clip from the mainline and put it aside for a minute. The same progression follows suit if I am going to retrieve my line all the way in. The weight unclips, and a little bit after that the electrolume unclips and I am left with a 6 ft. wind-on leader and a bait. If I plan to just check the bait I may simply handline the weight and light in and pile the line on the floor and let it out again a moment later.

With balloons, I find that I always clip them free or break the rubber band by pulling hard enough, and generally I will have to work the residual rubber off of the mainline before continuing to reel in. The same could be true for the weight when I use a rubber band to attach the weight. This does not take a whole lot of time to reattach these items with a fresh rubberband and the balloon is salvaged most of the time. But it is certainly less convenient than the clip method.

Now I seem to find that I am tending to lines a lot more often than I am actually reeling in fish, probably at least at a 10 to 1 ratio (line tending vs. fish-on). Just having the orderly convenience of unclipping my attachments is a more simple method compared to breaking rubber bands and retying new ones. ( I just clip/unclip and go) over and over and over again.) It is so nice!

There are many times that I do not have my waxline marks in place, have enough jugs, or weights with clips attached, or I am sending out a buddies line. In that case I use the rubber bands, accept it, and move on, still happy that I am out there fishing for SWordfish.

In my very newbie exploratory days, which was not so long ago, I received comments that it was "Risky" , oh there is that word, to use clips to attach anything, like jugs and weights, in particular, because you may need to retrieve that line as fast as possible to keep the fish tight on the line. Granted, with a rubber band you could possibly continue cranking on a line and pop the rubber band in the guides and continue on without a slowdown: the rubberband will typically pass with enough force but nothing typically breaks. With a longline clip, you must pause to remove it: this is probably the only disadvantage I can come up with. But even this pause is usually less time than when I have to fiddle with a very tight rubber band to remove it completely off the main line.

But in all of my limited experience of reeling in fish, they have always been in tension at the particular time that a clip must be removed. So I have never personally experienced this dis-advantage to suggest that I may need to modify my style. And I like my style so far.

So it is simply up to you to think it through and choose the style that works for you and one you are happy with. RT

jerry · 05-11-2005, 12:55 PM

RT, I have been considering using jugs for all the reasons you have mentioned. The reasons I have not so far are these: 1. I am unsure of how much additional pressure a jug would put on the mainline should a big fish pull everything under water and remain down for any period of time. 2. Would the mainline get twisted in any way with the jug as it is being pulled down or across the water? What do you think?

FinalPoint · 05-11-2005, 01:07 PM

I do think a jug puts more pressure than a balloon. Balloons in my opinion are just so easy adn you will never run out if you loose a few.

RiskTaker · 05-11-2005, 02:08 PM

Jerry, Well first of all:

I think (know) that I lost the last fish and topshot, which co-incidentally happended to be where I had the jug clip attached. But I do not believe it was due to the jug or the clip but I thought I would just throw that out there as my disclaimer for my episode. Personally I suspect that the loop of the top shot simply slipped as I believe it was a simple splice in dacron material. All that said and onto BIDness.

1. I use a 93 oz. bleach jug with a two foot stick where the cyalume is mounted up high. This size jug is sufficiently bouyant to counteract a 2 lb. lead weight and there are certain bleach bottles the have a stright side near the spout that facilitates mounting the stick with the appropriate fastener, ie. duct tape. I use a zip tie with a screw mount to attach the longline clip. The zip-tie fits arounnd the bottle neck so it pulls straigh in-line with the moment of the stick. I would guess that the displacement of the jug provides about 6 lbs. of lift at the surface and about 3.5 lbs at 33 FSW due to it compressing to one half of its original displacement size. a half pound was thrown in to allow for some water resistant drag plus 3 lbs. displacement. Estimating not actual calculations mind you, but based on 1 gallon seawater at about 8 lbs. and the correlating displacement of 93 ounces liquid at about 6 lbs. displaced seawater.

2. As long as you let out your line untangled the jug should remain untangled since there should always be a weight or a fish on the other end to keep it stretched and the rod end should never remain slack for such a long time that it would get fouled up, unlike trolling with all lines under tension. (So expect that it could happen under some freak circumstance)

Jerry, the way I see it; it is possible that the jug could possiby assist in keeping a constant pressure on the hook even if the fish happens to be coming your way and your line has gone slack.

Good luck.

jerry · 05-11-2005, 02:32 PM

RT thanks for the info. Like I said I have wanted to try jugs for sometime. I may go get a roll of ductape and give it a shot tonight. I just got a nice fibreglass 1/2" rod to use to hang my light on. Again my biggest fear which you may have put to bed is any additional strain on the main line which may cause a break under a lot of pressure. I am fishing with as heavy a drag as I can get away with. Do you think the shape of the bleach bottle has anything to do with the way it floats. I tried using 2ltr soda bottle once but it kept tipping over all the time with the movement of the sea. I have some 5ltr water bottles but they are pretty much rectangular shaped all the way to the mouth before the sides taper down. I guess I will just have to experiment with it and see what happens. No matter what happens I will let you know how it goes tonight.
Tight lines

RiskTaker · 05-11-2005, 02:42 PM

Jerry:

Good luck. Maybe you catch an escolar first and then have a nice fatty fish to catch an even bigger fatty fish. :idea:

You may not fully appreciate the convenience of the jugs, etc. until you have the complete system together: captive waxline loops, jugs with clips, weights with clips and the standard LP electrolume, of course, with clips.

I think it is pretty cool when I can call you on the mobile in Jamaica while you have your lines out. By the way, can you still see people walking on the beach at night while you are fishing?

jerry · 05-11-2005, 03:10 PM

RT,
Not sure if I have the nerve to bridle up a big ol escolar just yet but I know one thing for sure, I wont shy away from a too big a mackerel any longer.
I have started attaching my weights under my electrolumes and then using the long line clip to attach to my mainline. For this I dont use a loop but I halfhitched some heavy wax line onto my mainline and just hang the longline clip on that strip. Have not had one slip off yet even while fighting a fish. So for now I will continue that way. I dont have loops either to attach the jug so I may just rubber band them on somehow tonight. I am more interested in the jug showing me the bite rather than the convenience of getting it off right now. I see guys keep posting that they can tell when the balloon flops over that they have a bite. Honestly, all the fish I have caught off balloons were either drag screamers, the balloon moves out of the pattern or the line got slack. I have never noticed a balloon fall over yet and I keep a sharp eye on them.
As far as the people on the beach, its the ones in the bikinis that keep me watching them. :razz: Yep we are still fishing 2 miles off, thats where we start our drift and end it 1mile off.
Call me tonight I will be out around 7:30 your time and fish till 11pm your time.

Later

FinalPoint · 05-11-2005, 04:30 PM

As you may or may not know, RiskTaker fishes on my boat very frequently, but NO JUGS ON MY BOAT (not even special contraptions)....KISS (keep it simple, stupid)!

RiskTaker · 05-11-2005, 08:37 PM

Jerry:

Catch this up later, hopefully after you report a catch, on this, "" another doldrum Hump-day in paradise"". I was telling Mercie we must visit JA next April: your cordiality is winning her over a crank at a time. "" the children thing helped too: hi 5''s with your young swordfish bote captains.

Yes, most of my experiences have been the ""bobber-thingy"" whatever you choose it to be, will wander out of the predictable drift pattern, before it flops over. Yet , this is still a bona fide sign of fish activity. But I have yet to get any experiences by this sign too.

Most of the time I have noticed some tension on the rod, no drag pulling or no light dropping out of sight. Given a few more minutes of time, the other options may come into play. One time I even saw the tell-tale electrolume racing back and forth somewhat near the surface without any of the other ""clues"".

Just make the anouncement that we have a fish on and go about the details to optimize the spread and get the fish tight, etc.

Hey, when you get rigged up with Wireless Lan you may be able to surf from your laptop within cellcom reach in CALA: whenever the bite is slow, that is.

Hey Pat, - yeah, I realize there may be a two carry-on limit, even for domestic trips, on your Italian Expresso, but it is important to be open-minded. I hear that the greatest critic of John Fulton and his folly was a nay sayer, Harvard graduate. Don''t ride that boat: multi turbo-diesels are better.

. Claro que si. But that took just a little bit longer to refine after the steam thinga-ma-bobber.

05-10-2005, 08:56 PM	#1 (permalink)
andylrd Grunt Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6	Jugs?? Hi Guys, I am a northern canyon fisherman and see all the references to jugs. We are use to balloons or floats up here. Could someone explain how the jugs are set up? Thanks Andy

05-11-2005, 12:24 PM	#4 (permalink)
RiskTaker Grander Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pompano Beach, Florida, USA Best Catch: Had one once, then she took the boat away Posts: 1,971	I prefer to use jugs, balloons as needed I'm a jug man myself but I still have and use balloons, probably because I do not have enough jugs. A few notes about the two: jug or balloon. 1 - you can rig the jug or balloon so that it is top heavy and will fall over when the weight counterbalance is released. (light on a stick or on top of the jug and light taped on top of the balloon). 2 - the jug can be rigged to break-way or can be permanently attached. (For permanent attachment, my preference, I use a longline clip to attach this to one of my captive waxline loops. (Recall that they offer a convenient measurement mark, an easy attachment location especially for the longline clip as well as an additional chafe barrier to anything attached to your mainline, weight or jug or balloon). 3. The one thing that I must say that tilts me in the favor of jugs is that they are far easier to manage than balloons when it comes to checking your lines and re-setting your spread at a different location. When I haul in my jug lines, I simply detach the clip from the mainline and put it aside for a minute. The same progression follows suit if I am going to retrieve my line all the way in. The weight unclips, and a little bit after that the electrolume unclips and I am left with a 6 ft. wind-on leader and a bait. If I plan to just check the bait I may simply handline the weight and light in and pile the line on the floor and let it out again a moment later. With balloons, I find that I always clip them free or break the rubber band by pulling hard enough, and generally I will have to work the residual rubber off of the mainline before continuing to reel in. The same could be true for the weight when I use a rubber band to attach the weight. This does not take a whole lot of time to reattach these items with a fresh rubberband and the balloon is salvaged most of the time. But it is certainly less convenient than the clip method. Now I seem to find that I am tending to lines a lot more often than I am actually reeling in fish, probably at least at a 10 to 1 ratio (line tending vs. fish-on). Just having the orderly convenience of unclipping my attachments is a more simple method compared to breaking rubber bands and retying new ones. ( I just clip/unclip and go) over and over and over again.) It is so nice! There are many times that I do not have my waxline marks in place, have enough jugs, or weights with clips attached, or I am sending out a buddies line. In that case I use the rubber bands, accept it, and move on, still happy that I am out there fishing for SWordfish. In my very newbie exploratory days, which was not so long ago, I received comments that it was "Risky" , oh there is that word, to use clips to attach anything, like jugs and weights, in particular, because you may need to retrieve that line as fast as possible to keep the fish tight on the line. Granted, with a rubber band you could possibly continue cranking on a line and pop the rubber band in the guides and continue on without a slowdown: the rubberband will typically pass with enough force but nothing typically breaks. With a longline clip, you must pause to remove it: this is probably the only disadvantage I can come up with. But even this pause is usually less time than when I have to fiddle with a very tight rubber band to remove it completely off the main line. But in all of my limited experience of reeling in fish, they have always been in tension at the particular time that a clip must be removed. So I have never personally experienced this dis-advantage to suggest that I may need to modify my style. And I like my style so far. So it is simply up to you to think it through and choose the style that works for you and one you are happy with. RT

05-11-2005, 02:42 PM	#9 (permalink)
RiskTaker Grander Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pompano Beach, Florida, USA Best Catch: Had one once, then she took the boat away Posts: 1,971	Sounds like another chance for some rum sipping. Jerry: Good luck. Maybe you catch an escolar first and then have a nice fatty fish to catch an even bigger fatty fish. :idea: You may not fully appreciate the convenience of the jugs, etc. until you have the complete system together: captive waxline loops, jugs with clips, weights with clips and the standard LP electrolume, of course, with clips. I think it is pretty cool when I can call you on the mobile in Jamaica while you have your lines out. By the way, can you still see people walking on the beach at night while you are fishing?

05-11-2005, 08:37 PM	#12 (permalink)
RiskTaker Grander Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pompano Beach, Florida, USA Best Catch: Had one once, then she took the boat away Posts: 1,971	I have no clue(s) Jerry: Catch this up later, hopefully after you report a catch, on this, "" another doldrum Hump-day in paradise"". I was telling Mercie we must visit JA next April: your cordiality is winning her over a crank at a time. "" the children thing helped too: hi 5''s with your young swordfish bote captains. Yes, most of my experiences have been the ""bobber-thingy"" whatever you choose it to be, will wander out of the predictable drift pattern, before it flops over. Yet , this is still a bona fide sign of fish activity. But I have yet to get any experiences by this sign too. Most of the time I have noticed some tension on the rod, no drag pulling or no light dropping out of sight. Given a few more minutes of time, the other options may come into play. One time I even saw the tell-tale electrolume racing back and forth somewhat near the surface without any of the other ""clues"". Just make the anouncement that we have a fish on and go about the details to optimize the spread and get the fish tight, etc. Hey, when you get rigged up with Wireless Lan you may be able to surf from your laptop within cellcom reach in CALA: whenever the bite is slow, that is. Hey Pat, - yeah, I realize there may be a two carry-on limit, even for domestic trips, on your Italian Expresso, but it is important to be open-minded. I hear that the greatest critic of John Fulton and his folly was a nay sayer, Harvard graduate. Don''t ride that boat: multi turbo-diesels are better. . Claro que si. But that took just a little bit longer to refine after the steam thinga-ma-bobber.

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05-10-2005, 10:34 PM	#2 (permalink)
swordfish123 Hooked Up Join Date: May 2004 Location: Oxford, Mississippi Boat: Whatever Hatteras lets me fish on Best Catch: ~250lb Blue Marlin- Marsh Harbour Occupation: Gulf Coast Hatteras Intern Posts: 318	Lots of folks around here use balloons, its really just preferance. I used to use jugs and i'd just put a lightstick inside and seal it shut. Then i'd take some wax line or somethign of that nature and tie a loop around the handle, then i'd use a rubberband to attach that loop to the main line. Its a little more hassle with jugs, maybe i just dont know the best way to do it :?: . Dissadvantage of jugs--> If you use balloons, you tape the lighstick to the top of the balloon. This makes the balloon top heavy, and when you attach the balloon to the mainline, the balloon will snap straight up and down when put in the water. If a sword hits and is swimming straight to the surface, your balloon will no longer be counterbalanced, and will become top heavy. If your balloon suddenly tips over, you know theres soemthin foolin around with your bait. Also, jugs are bulky and you have to collect them. I'd stick with balloons. 0123

05-11-2005, 11:21 AM	#3 (permalink)
FinalPoint Hooked Up Join Date: May 2004 Location: Lighthouse Pt., FL; Greenwich, CT Boat: Contender 36 Fisharound Best Catch: 1183 lb. Swordfish Occupation: Real Estate Investment Posts: 931	Well put Stephen. The way I see it, balloons are quick, very effective, and break off easy when a fish starts running (and they are probably more environmentally friendly than jugs).

05-11-2005, 12:55 PM	#5 (permalink)
jerry Hooked Up Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Jamaica Boat: 35ft Contender Best Catch: they are all good Occupation: Operations Manager Posts: 359	RT, I have been considering using jugs for all the reasons you have mentioned. The reasons I have not so far are these: 1. I am unsure of how much additional pressure a jug would put on the mainline should a big fish pull everything under water and remain down for any period of time. 2. Would the mainline get twisted in any way with the jug as it is being pulled down or across the water? What do you think?

05-11-2005, 01:07 PM	#6 (permalink)
FinalPoint Hooked Up Join Date: May 2004 Location: Lighthouse Pt., FL; Greenwich, CT Boat: Contender 36 Fisharound Best Catch: 1183 lb. Swordfish Occupation: Real Estate Investment Posts: 931	I do think a jug puts more pressure than a balloon. Balloons in my opinion are just so easy adn you will never run out if you loose a few.

05-11-2005, 02:08 PM	#7 (permalink)
RiskTaker Grander Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pompano Beach, Florida, USA Best Catch: Had one once, then she took the boat away Posts: 1,971	Jerry, Well first of all: I think (know) that I lost the last fish and topshot, which co-incidentally happended to be where I had the jug clip attached. But I do not believe it was due to the jug or the clip but I thought I would just throw that out there as my disclaimer for my episode. Personally I suspect that the loop of the top shot simply slipped as I believe it was a simple splice in dacron material. All that said and onto BIDness. 1. I use a 93 oz. bleach jug with a two foot stick where the cyalume is mounted up high. This size jug is sufficiently bouyant to counteract a 2 lb. lead weight and there are certain bleach bottles the have a stright side near the spout that facilitates mounting the stick with the appropriate fastener, ie. duct tape. I use a zip tie with a screw mount to attach the longline clip. The zip-tie fits arounnd the bottle neck so it pulls straigh in-line with the moment of the stick. I would guess that the displacement of the jug provides about 6 lbs. of lift at the surface and about 3.5 lbs at 33 FSW due to it compressing to one half of its original displacement size. a half pound was thrown in to allow for some water resistant drag plus 3 lbs. displacement. Estimating not actual calculations mind you, but based on 1 gallon seawater at about 8 lbs. and the correlating displacement of 93 ounces liquid at about 6 lbs. displaced seawater. 2. As long as you let out your line untangled the jug should remain untangled since there should always be a weight or a fish on the other end to keep it stretched and the rod end should never remain slack for such a long time that it would get fouled up, unlike trolling with all lines under tension. (So expect that it could happen under some freak circumstance) Jerry, the way I see it; it is possible that the jug could possiby assist in keeping a constant pressure on the hook even if the fish happens to be coming your way and your line has gone slack. Good luck.

05-11-2005, 02:32 PM	#8 (permalink)
jerry Hooked Up Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Jamaica Boat: 35ft Contender Best Catch: they are all good Occupation: Operations Manager Posts: 359	RT thanks for the info. Like I said I have wanted to try jugs for sometime. I may go get a roll of ductape and give it a shot tonight. I just got a nice fibreglass 1/2" rod to use to hang my light on. Again my biggest fear which you may have put to bed is any additional strain on the main line which may cause a break under a lot of pressure. I am fishing with as heavy a drag as I can get away with. Do you think the shape of the bleach bottle has anything to do with the way it floats. I tried using 2ltr soda bottle once but it kept tipping over all the time with the movement of the sea. I have some 5ltr water bottles but they are pretty much rectangular shaped all the way to the mouth before the sides taper down. I guess I will just have to experiment with it and see what happens. No matter what happens I will let you know how it goes tonight. Tight lines

05-11-2005, 03:10 PM	#10 (permalink)
jerry Hooked Up Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Jamaica Boat: 35ft Contender Best Catch: they are all good Occupation: Operations Manager Posts: 359	RT, Not sure if I have the nerve to bridle up a big ol escolar just yet but I know one thing for sure, I wont shy away from a too big a mackerel any longer. I have started attaching my weights under my electrolumes and then using the long line clip to attach to my mainline. For this I dont use a loop but I halfhitched some heavy wax line onto my mainline and just hang the longline clip on that strip. Have not had one slip off yet even while fighting a fish. So for now I will continue that way. I dont have loops either to attach the jug so I may just rubber band them on somehow tonight. I am more interested in the jug showing me the bite rather than the convenience of getting it off right now. I see guys keep posting that they can tell when the balloon flops over that they have a bite. Honestly, all the fish I have caught off balloons were either drag screamers, the balloon moves out of the pattern or the line got slack. I have never noticed a balloon fall over yet and I keep a sharp eye on them. As far as the people on the beach, its the ones in the bikinis that keep me watching them. :razz: Yep we are still fishing 2 miles off, thats where we start our drift and end it 1mile off. Call me tonight I will be out around 7:30 your time and fish till 11pm your time. Later

05-11-2005, 04:30 PM	#11 (permalink)
FinalPoint Hooked Up Join Date: May 2004 Location: Lighthouse Pt., FL; Greenwich, CT Boat: Contender 36 Fisharound Best Catch: 1183 lb. Swordfish Occupation: Real Estate Investment Posts: 931	As you may or may not know, RiskTaker fishes on my boat very frequently, but NO JUGS ON MY BOAT (not even special contraptions)....KISS (keep it simple, stupid)!

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