Favorite Websites for swordfishing

[ProfessorO]

Wat are some of your favorite URLs for swordfishing besides
Swordfishing Central??

I'll start, need to check the forecasts,
NDBC - Station FWYF1
NDBC - Station SPGF1
(when is lake worth pier going to be finished?)

Florida Marine Weather, Buoy Reports, Swell & Wind Forecasts, Water Temperature | Buoyweather

Intellicast - WINDcast in United States]Florida Marine Weather, Buoy Reports, Swell & Wind Forecasts, Water Temperature | Buoyweather
Hollywood, Florida (33019) Conditions & Forecast : Weather Underground
Florida Swell Charts

and if things look iffy, time to do some homework,

Tropical Weather Information

Check out this site and make sure to look at the currents,

Observation Maps — SEACOOS

A plug for my site, for maps and sword PSAT data

South Florida Outreach

and when it is time to feed the addiction,

http://www.reelproshop.com/

cheers, arthur

[DIRTYFOOT2]

bloodydecks.com. Mostly west coast tuna reports, but enogh sword stuff to qualify.

[catching]

Butch you just like the Avatars and BOTD

[DIRTYFOOT2]

true.....you got me

[Reef]

All those different links to forecasts - ?? Anglers can find all their weather info in one place @ SST-Offshore.com. Just a heads up in case anyone gets tired of clicking from one to the next. lol.

[ProfessorO]

Originally Posted by Reef

All those different links to forecasts - ?? Anglers can find all their weather info in one place @ SST-Offshore.com. Just a heads up in case anyone gets tired of clicking from one to the next. lol.

I'll tell you what I don't like about SST-Offshore (there are a lot of good things about the website) is that they have put a lot of nice color looking graphics depicting ocean conditions that they claim are reliable. I can go in and pick apart some of their products because they are not reliable along the coast. For example, they show SSH maps right along the coast. Please go check out the SSH maps produced by my Navy colleagues at

NLOM 16 degree page

and you will notice that all along the shelf, there are no estimates because
the data is not reliable there. SST-charts have extrapolated
(using functions whose scales are way too large for the coastal area) the data to the coast, the errors are as large as the signal and the features they are showing are not real but artifacts of their interpolation routines.

The dominant size of the eddies right along the Florida Coast is
less than 10 km, besides the land/sea bias in the SSh data, it only fully resolves 100 km size features. They also produce geostrophic velocity maps based on this data that is also very wrong because the data does not resolve the right size features, is noisy, and the currents are not geostrophic along the coast. I'll stop here, you all get the picture. cheers, arthur

PS Someone from their company needs to take my class on
statistical modeling and prediction of fluid motion

[Reef]

hmm.. Thanks for the info!! I am new to all of that stuff there - trying to learn it.. I have used it several times in planning our trips lately & its readings have been correct - as far as SST, wind, wave height, wave period, etc.... I just like being able to pull up the map and bam - i have access to all the forecasts there instead of clicking around to different websites. I am going to check out the links you posted above....

[snooknreds2]

Originally Posted by ProfessorO

PS Someone from their company needs to take my class on
statistical modeling and prediction of fluid motion

When Is it?? I would love to sit in if my boss will let me get away

[ProfessorO]

Originally Posted by Reef

hmm.. Thanks for the info!! I am new to all of that stuff there - trying to learn it.. I have used it several times in planning our trips lately & its readings have been correct - as far as SST, wind, wave height, wave period, etc.... I just like being able to pull up the map and bam - i have access to all the forecasts there instead of clicking around to different websites. I am going to check out the links you posted above....

Reef, you are right that they have a lot of good info, well-organized,
and they deserve a lot of praise for all the hard work put into their
site and products, and for sharing. cheers, arthur

[ProfessorO]

Originally Posted by snooknreds2

When Is it?? I would love to sit in if my boss will let me get away

this semester is 80% over so next year starting in Jan, twice a week around 11:00 to 12:30 (don't know if tues and thurs or mon and wed yet). cheers,
arthur

[Capt_Dave]

Greetings All,
Dr. Marianos, Thank You for both your kind and not so kind words about our newest product. The fact that you looked that closely at our products means that we are doing something correct.

I hope that this post does not bother the powers that be but after your original comments I felt compelled to reply.

First allow me to introduce myself. My name is Captain Dave Tilley. I operate the 100 plus foot Head Boat Continental Shelf based in Morehead City, NC.
Deep Sea Fishing, Headboat, Morehead City, Atlantic Beach, Emrald Isle, North Carolina
I have been Commercial and Charter Fishing Offshore of North Carolina for the Majority of my life.

I also own Fishing The Florida Coast - Florida-Offshore.Com along with a string of Sites from Maine to Texas offering all kinds of offshore data. 98% of it FREE of charge.

Bluewater Supermap is my baby.

In response to Dr. Marianos comments,

First of all we certainly appreciate Dr. Mariano taking the time to check out SST-Offshore.com. We would welcome the opportunity to work with him to further improve our products.

I will point out that on the current launch page to Supermap, It is plainly written that this product is still considered Beta and Under Construction. You do bring up a valid point about some of the wording in the product layers. As soon as I complete this post, I will try to address some of those concerns.

SSH anomaly
Regarding the SSH anomaly data, Dr. Mariano is correct sea surface height anomaly is not necessarily intended for coastal use. Although there are a few salmon fishermen on the West Coast who fish within 10 mile of shore and swear by it, it is primarily meant to help locate potentially productive area outside of 50 kilometers. However, SST-Offshore does not make any claims as to the use of SSH anomaly data for inshore/coastal fishing success. We offer it up simply because many offshore fishermen find it a very useful tool in the tool box when searching for productive waters. Our partner, Ocean Imaging pioneered the use of SSH anomaly data 10 years ago. They were funded by the American Fishermen’s Research Foundation to investigate the relationship of albacore tuna catch location and SSH patterns. The study found a definite correlation of catch to the SSH data. In fact most commercial offshore fish boats now include SSH anomaly data as a standard part of their oceanographic arsenal when searching for productive fishing zones – have been for many years. The fact of matter is that SSH anomaly data can be a good indicator of the location of oceanographic convergence zones and deeper water mass boundary zones. In combination with SST data, SSH data can help to verify the existence of a frontal zone since SST data are really only showing us the upper millimeter of water. Sometimes temperature gradients seen in SST imagery are only surface manifestations and do not represent a front or “break” any distance below the surface. SSH can help determine this.

A few notes on the SSH data we deliver as part of SST-Offshore. Up until today (now changed) we titled the data layer as sea surface height. In reality these data are sea surface height anomaly or how much the sea surface height deviates from a climatological ‘norm’. We have since changed the name of this layer option. We also had the data enhanced between -15cm to +15cm, which has also been changed on super map to enhance between -30cm to +30cm (a standard color enhancement for SSH data). Our data source provides us with a dataset which integrates data from three satellite altimeters (the sensors that measure the surface height of the ocean): Jason, Geosat Follow-On(GFO), Envisat. Two satellites fly over a spot on the Earth once every 17 days and one every 10 days, but the dataset we use meshes the data from these sensors together (and yes interpolates the data) to generate daily updates. Granted some of the data values in an SSH image may be several days old, but it is more effective to generate daily analyses using ‘old’ data and interpolate the data together into a ‘pretty picture’ than to show the individual grand track data as separate entities. In fact the nominal ground resolution of the data we use is closer to 50 kilometers, not 100 km. Depending on sensor look angle, theoretically features could be resolved as fine as 30-35 kilometers. Practically, however, after accounting for sensor signal to noise relationships of each sensor the effective spatial resolution of the data is roughly 50km-100km – closer to 50. Granted, not suited for coastal use, but certainly not to be dismissed – especially since commercial fishing vessels have been very effectively using these data for 10+ years. Trust us, they wouldn’t still be using fuel to run to an SSH feature if they didn’t know there would be some sort of pay off.

Also, please see the included sample imagery from different SSH data providers. You will see that our Navy colleagues do, in fact interpolate their SSH anomaly data into the coast. It is their 1000 meter steric height product in which they do not do this, not the SSH anomaly product. In fact the Navy product is actually a model-derived product (based on a very reliable model called MODAS), which differs from the data we use which primarily uses direct observation data and interpolation. Note that the sample SSH anomaly product generated by the University of Colorado Center for Astrodynamics Research also interpolates very close to the coast and looks very much like the data we offer.



Geostrophic Currents
Yes, the currents as you see them now on SST-Offshore are ‘geostrophic’ currents. These are currents primarily computed from the SSH anomaly information, accounting for the rotation of the Earth and a few other factors. Yes, these currents can be incorrect, especially during periods of moderate to high wind and when other atmospheric forcing variables counteract the geostrophic potential of the surface water movement. They can be unquestionably accurate during calm conditions, again more offshore than near the coast. Ocean Imaging has hundreds of commercial fishermen who use these current data and compare the data they see in the analysis with both the drift of their boat as well as the drift of their gear – including dispatched radio buoys intended to monitor ocean surface flow.. They regularly report back to Ocean Imaging when the geostrophic currents don’t match their drift and/or the information from their radio buoys. More often, than not however, the same current data used for SST-Offshore matches what is experienced by a vessel out at sea. Anyone is welcome to dispute this, however, we can provide more than several fishermen with first hand experience who base their livelihood on this information.

Again, these data are not well suited for near shore use. We will soon, however, be including HF Radar-derived ocean current data in areas where available. These data are derived from an entirely different method and in many locations are updated every hour. Ocean Imaging SeaView subscribers on the West coast already have access to these very detailed and accurate current data. We hope to work with more institutions around the country as well as the Coastal Observing Research and Development Center to bring you these data for all available coastal regions.

(Continued in the Next Post)

[Capt_Dave]

(Continued from the previous post )
SST Data
Since SST-Offshore is still under construction, perhaps Dr. Mariano saw a few data sets which should not have been there. At present our map server is combining a single days worth of several satellite overpasses when it should not be doing so. This will be fixed by April 14th and you will see each individual, single-overpass. These data will not be pretty pictures, but real, calibrated, geo-corrected, atmospherically corrected direct satellite observation data. Let us explain the different data sets we offer.

On the free side of the site, we simply offer single satellite overpass SST data acquired from the NOAA Coastwatch system. These data are 1 kilometer AHVRR and MODIS data. No interpolation, smoothing or ‘extrapolated’. If you’d like more information on how these data are processed, please visit NOAA Coastwatch.

The SeaView SST data are all AVHRR-derived, 1 kilometer spatial resolution, geo-corrected, calibrated data specially processed to take full advantage of the 0.1°C thermal resolution of the AVHRR sensors on the NOAA polar orbiting satellites. Again, no interpolation, extrapolation, smoothing or cosmetics to make pretty pictures – just the data. Ocean Imaging has been delivering these images to sport and commercial fishermen for over 20 years with no complaints. And yes, these data are perfectly suitable for coastal use. Fishermen have been doing this for years. Perhaps Dr. Mariano simply saw the data we had inadvertently merged together from an entire day, creating inaccurate imagery. This is being corrected and will not be a problem in the future. Our apologies to Dr. Mariano if he was mislead.

SeaView also provides SST composite imagery. The raw data for these analyses are actually retrieved from our colleagues at the Navy. Due to the difficulties in merging the 1 kilometer data, we use 4 kilometer Navy data as input for these analyses. Since multiple satellite shots are used as input to the compositing model we can effectively resample the data to 2.5 kilometer spatial resolution and still provide a fairly accurate product. Yes, these analyses do incorporate a certain amount of interpolation. Please keep in mind, however, that these products are meant to be used when the 1 kilometer, single pass imagery is of poor quality due to cloud cover. Yes, the compositing process does introduce error, especially in the 3day and ‘cloud free’ analyses, but if conditions have been cloudy for several day, what would you rather use nothing or a mostly accurate composite image that shows you the offshore conditions. These composite images probably loose accuracy when working close to shore, but outside of 10-15 miles from the shore they will be relatively accurate. We say, don’t listen to desk-bound critiques, but take a printout of a 1 or 3-day SST composite and go see how it compares yourself. Offshore commercial fishermen have been using these exact images for 15 years all around the world and continue to express their satisfaction with the overall accuracy.

The Pragmatic Picture
Let’s not get confused with providing data for scientific research purposes and offering oceanographic products which have practical benefit in finding more productive fishing grounds. None of these data products are new to fishing and all have been used by fishermen for many years in one capacity or another to help find fish. Perhaps some are better suited than other for coastal use, but there is no question in this day and age that SSH and the SST products provided by SST-Offshore and SeaView are effective tools in the pelagic fish hunting tool box. This is not in dispute by the hundreds to thousands of fishermen who use them every day.

In closing, I would like to invite you Dr. Marianos to assist us in bringing as much of this data, as accurately as possible to the Offshore Fishing Community. Free of charge if possible.

Sincerely,

Captain Dave Tilley

[WhItEoUt 23]

[ProfessorO]

Capt Dave, welcome aboard and a very impressive set of initial posts.
I'll get back to you on some of the points that we both have raised about
the use of satellite data to find fish near the coast, as soon as I have the
time. cheers, arthur

[reel life]

Originally Posted by Capt_Dave

(Continued from the previous post )
[b] Free of charge if possible.

Sincerely,

Captain Dave Tilley

hey o if your doing work for free my truck could use a washing and the grass needs cutting.

[Capt_Dave]

Originally Posted by reel life

hey o if your doing work for free my truck could use a washing and the grass needs cutting.

LOL...That is what MATES are for....LOL

Dave

[PURPLE FEVER]

Dont forget the moonphase chart!

[ProfessorO]

Capt Dave, Before I get into the accuracy of the maps discussion, I
would just like to say that you and your crew have done a lot of
excellent, hard work and you all deserve mucho praise for putting
a lot of free info up on the web for the good of fisherman.

I must apologize because I should have been a little easier on the
site because as you state it is being beta tested. On the other hand,
this discussion will improve your site and I hope, folks can learn a
few things. As a preface, just let me state that I am one of the primary
co-PIs on the HYCOM data team that are working to improve the
Navy's estimates of the state of the ocean, some of the other PIs
are the developers of MODAS.

The first picture from (Capt Dave's post) on the left is representative
of where oceanographers think we have reliable estimate of steric height
anomaly; the info along the coast are not reliable. The picture on the
right is an interpolation of the corresponding sea surface height anomaly
that is used as an input of "corrections" to a numerical model of circulation. Most of the correction is zero value along the coast except in the region
of strong energetic features. This is field is not a final estimate of the
ocean but is used to obtain it.

The plot from the group in CO is called mesoscale altimeter because it
only contains information on the large eddies (100 km) in the ocean. The coastal ocean is dominated by submesoscale motion that these satellites do
not resolve. The information that we can resolve is put into numerical
models that can calculate the ocean fields at a much higher resolution
(capture more of the eddies on sizes of 1-10 km). For example this
plot has large velocity arrows pointing into the west coast of florida;
most of the real flow is along the coast and not into the coast.

My comments in this post and the others are for your height and velocity
along the coast. As you go offshore, the data better resolves (but not
fully) the features and they would have more value to fisherman. You
are right about this. The SST and ocean color data are available at 1-4 km along the coast and when it is clear out they can really help you.
However, the feature you see at midnight one night can be 5-15 miles
away the next morning, and the users need to be aware of this.

WRT to helping you out; please get in line and take a number. I would
love to help you out but I already have too much on my plate. I am
working on improving these products through federal funding. My
colleagues and I have been funded by NASA to work on a space-time
interpolation algorithm that will help fill in the gappy areas for SST
products.

Since you are kindly distributing a lot of free info to fisherman I will
provide you some feedback on the products, free of charge. One last
thing, to catch fish you need a product of scientific quality; there are
a lot of pretty pictures out there, but the estimation of coastal currents,
except in the areas with the High Frequency Radar sites along, is
extremely difficult and is at the cutting edge of physical oceanography.
We have the technology, but not the $$, for this problem. cheers, arthur