Sport Fishing Magazine March 2008 issue

PURPLE FEVER · 02-24-2008, 11:38 AM

What a bunch of hypocrites!

In the editorials on page 16 Rob Kramer (the illustrious head of IGFA) praises Doug Olander's previous editorial FEARING THE DEMISE OF THE SWORDFISH BY ELECTRIC REELS and states"regarding the use of electric reels,this is indeed a violation of IGFA rules whether or not the reel is plugged in."He states further"Is an electric knife only an electric knife if it is plugged in?"

Then on pages 72 & 73 of the same issue are pictures of Mr. Olanders wife with the fish she caught on a Diawa electric reel! I wonder how Kramer can squirm out of this one?

Daiwa makes fine non-electric conventional reels, why was'nt one of those models used?

On page 20 of the same issue the inventors of daytime swordfishing state"say no to push-button swords"This comes from the gang who claims to have killed hundreds of daytime swords!The top tag and release captains over the past several years have only tagged 25-30 fish in the year. Why havent these stewards of conservation won the tag award? Maybe they are too humble OR?

JahMussa · 02-24-2008, 07:29 PM

Good catch Bert.... Looks like they will be having "egg on their face" with a side of electric reel caught Swordy. Yum Yum!

Harry Klauber · 02-24-2008, 07:47 PM

I started swordfishing with rod and reel in the mid 70's and I have say we caught an awful lot of BIG fish. We didn't know all that much about what we were doing, and we did it with far less sophisticated gear than what we now have. It went on for a few years until the long liners got into it and the rest is a story we all know.

I pose a question to all as I do not have the answer. Does anyone really think we have enough information on how many swordfish might live on the bottom in the deep water off our coast? Of course any fish killed is one less in the water but since these are all bigger fish, that seem to rarely feed above 1000 feet down, how do we determine what threat electric reels might pose? If you have ever caught a few you might have already noticed these fish caught on the bottom are often hooked on the bottom, and not even detected except for a slight lack of pressure on the line. Very few, if any, show any indication of their size until they are about 500 feet from the surface when they tend to get wild. We caught a 423 pounder a few weeks ago and wasn't 100% certain that we had a fish until she was 600 feet down and then we were sure. After that it was wild and crazy for awhile.

On any given day ALL of the electric reel swordfishermen can never account for the catch that one long liner would make in a single night. We hear so much about the daytime swords being caught on rod and reel because as "sportfishermen" it's something that we can do even if it is "on the edge" as far as just how sporting it really is. We might have opened a can of worms for ourselves through our own innovation and the immediate predictable cry is the demise of swordfish off the SE coast. Look at what the buoy fishermen catch in a night. The daytime rod and reel catch pales in comparison. The buoy fish are worth what they are sold for and that's about it. No one seems to be jumping on them as we never reach our allocation so their catching them is okay but a guy buying $5,000 worth of pretty specialized gear and catching a few swords is now a big deal? Before we say too much let's wait and see if the additional landings from the electric reel fishrey bring us up to our allocation.

Rods and reels have NEVER wiped out a fishery even if they were electric rigs. The central Florida Kingfish fleet in the 70's and 80's used overhead mounted car starter motors to power their "bug lines" and could easily catch 100 fish pre boat in a good day, and that was single handed. In those days, even with huge catches like that and a big fleet, it took the spotter planes and roller rigged net boats to do the damage. What they didn't catch the drift netters got. Once we got the "wholesale boys" out of the fishery the Kingfish rebounded as did the Spanish Mackeral. Another example of a single hook on a line never hurting a fishery.

I think one of the problems we are facing when we read about the impending doom of the swordfish is the fact that everything we read makes it seem like all you need to do is have a boat, get out to a suitable depth, get a bait down to the bottom any way you can and you will surely be rewarded with an almost immediate daytime swordfish. If that is everyone's true concept of this fishery then I, and my friends who do this regularly, must have it all wrong as I want to be the first to admit that we go without fish on MOST days never even getting a bite on as many as 10 -12 drops. It's just not as quick and easy as the articles make it seem. In all fairness to people rushing out to spend alot of money because of the certainty of landing one of these big fish based on what they read someone should write an HONEST "how to" article and leave out the BS part about how easy it is. I know it sounds alot better to make it seem like all you do is catch, catch, catch whenever you get out there but in my experience it's just not that way. If someone cares to show me otherwise I welcome the experience to learn what I am missing. After being fortunate enough to land the 423 pounder I went 3 consecutive trips and never had a bite. If I make 12 drops a day that means in 48 drops I had one single bite and was lucky enough to catch the fish. If you think that's so easy I'd beg to differ.

Disco Lady · 02-24-2008, 08:09 PM

COÑO!!!!!!!!

cogzwell · 02-24-2008, 08:30 PM

Well said Harry!!!!

Not at all easy as i once thought. it has been three long trips for me without a bite.....30-40 drops. hell, i have dropped an estimated 140-180 times since september with 4 fish landed.

tunaman81 · 02-24-2008, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Klauber

.

I pose a question to all as I do not have the answer. Does anyone really think we have enough information on how many swordfish might live on the bottom in the deep water off our coast? Of course any fish killed is one less in the water but since these are all bigger fish, that seem to rarely feed above 1000 feet down, how do we determine what threat electric reels might pose?

The swordfish you are catching on the bottom during the day are the same fish that are at the surface at night. Swordfish follow a pattern of going deep during the day, and returning to surface waters at night to feed.

CaptKen · 02-24-2008, 10:25 PM

Harry I feel your pain.
I believe its the MISINFORMATION spread by these magizines and newspapers that everyone who dont know any better start to believe.
In a recent thread Buoy Gear Landings December we had a buoy fisherman admit that the overall core size of a buoy fish out front throughout the year is less than 50 lbs, And another young helper admits right now the fishing sucks for them, I confirmed this with someone I know that fishes buoys, they are on 4 bad trips with a skunked trip,
This tells me that when a pack of fish move through say during the winter months and some hang out that we call locals or residents, the local buoy fleet of 30 whipes them out and the fishing sucks as it does now according to one of local expert helpers.
If you remember back just 5 years ago before the buoys, you could go out on any given night, moon phase or whatever and at least have 5 shots or maybe 10.
Heres some more food for thought: {not confirmed but a good source in the know} while a Long Line boat comes ashore last week in N.Carolina with 30,000 lbs+ after a week of fishing and their average core size is 200+ , Makes me wonder whats going to happen to the cycle say 5 years from now, Are the 50lb or less cores the local guys are killin here the 200+ cores that could have been off N.C a few years from now ? If we cant reach the almighty quota now, whats gonna be the cycle 5 years down the road when the babies are being killed in the nursery down south and the breeders are being killed up north ?
I bet if one added up all the rec caught fish day and night for the last 6 months it wouldn't add up to all the breeders killed by 1 L Liner off N.C in a week.

Broadbill-Pro · 02-25-2008, 06:34 AM

Burt,

Sportfishing magazines are the definition of hypocrisy. They allow misinformation to be spread in the hope of creating more sales. To my knowledge they have never retracted anything that has been written in error. It appears that they do not take responsibility for any of the articles. So why buy them? We have plenty of on-line forums to share our opinions with each other. The "experts" that contribute to the rags could not mate for most of the guys on this forum. I say leave the trash on the shelf and speak to the guys who actually have first hand information.

Ken,

We don't need to read that "night" swordfishing is not better today than it was in 2000 to know it's true, in fact the catches over the past 2 years seem to be dismal in comparison to year following the PLL ban.

I keep reading from "experts" like Harry that all the recreational boats together could not equal one longliner or that the buoy boats only average a few hundred pounds per calm night because they can not fish when it's rough unlike a PLL'er. I hear all this wisdom, but none that points to why fishing has fallen off from the dozen or so bites per night of just a few years ago.

There is no where to point a finger and that must burn the ass of many of the anti-PLL supporters. So what else is there to do except condem a 6 month old fishery.

One thing I have learned is that those who point a finger are more times than not doing it in a mirror.

Nightfighter · 02-25-2008, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

Burt,
We don't need to read that "night" swordfishing is not better today than it was in 2000 to know it's true, in fact the catches over the past 2 years seem to be dismal in comparison to year following the PLL ban.

Strange, that's about when the Buoy guys entered the picture in masses.

Harry Klauber · 02-25-2008, 07:20 AM

I've NEVER proclaimed to be an "expert" - I just have alot of experience and am not afraid to call it the way I, and many other knowledgeable people see it. I have written contrarian letters to many of the magazines, even have written a few articles for some, but find that the real controversial issues are the ones they avoid - such as when their publication is in error. I'll still stick by every word in my post about what a single long liner would do in one set compared to what all of the recreationals do in the same night. Add the buoy guys in and then tell me who might be the responsible for the "demise of the swordfish".

Harry Klauber · 02-25-2008, 07:21 AM

To Broadbill Pro - Good points from a guy that HAS alot of experience.

Harry Klauber · 02-25-2008, 07:22 AM

To Night Fighter - funny how you noticed the decline at night to be just "co-incidental" with the appearance of the buoy fishermen.

Harry Klauber · 02-25-2008, 07:25 AM

To Capt Ken - good points. How long would you think it would take our recreational fleet to kill the 30K pounds that the longliner in the Carolinas did? I can't imagine the lost sleep and daytime drops it would take!!

Harry Klauber · 02-25-2008, 07:26 AM

To Cogzwell - Thank you - at least you are not afraid to admit it's not a fish a trip guaranteed. Anyone believing that is foolish.

Harry Klauber · 02-25-2008, 07:55 AM

To Tunaman - You have it backwards my friend! Everyone understands the feeding patterns of swordfish in colder northern waters. I have harpooned many free swimmers during the day when I was younger off Block Island when they would leisurely fin on the surface where the water was warm as they digusted their nightime feed. Such is NOT - I repeat NOT the case down here. Ask anyone that fishes offshore alot when the last time was that they saw a swordfish on the surface during the day. I certainly haven't.

You say these fish return to the surface at night to feed. The fish caught at night are almost always gorged on squid so the night feeders are just in the water column where the squid happen to be. Every fish I have caught on the bottom during the day has not had one single squid in it - not one that I have ever seen. Others might say differently but that's been my experience. All they ever have in them are the remnants of finfish and other unidentifiable "junk".

I'm not a scientist, nor a marine biologist, but I pose this question to you - How come the daytime fish are so disproportionately large in size and numbers to the nightime fish. Far greater numbers of night fish are caught than day fish yet a larger fish at night is 300 pounds with most of the fish being barely legal. During the day we are annoyed if we catch a 150 as it hardly seems worth the effort as it's so small. Has anyone considered the fact that these bigger fish rarely come up high enough in the water column to be caught by the night fishermen? Of course a few do, and are caught, but the majority stay deep all the time and just don't mix with the smaller night fish. Don't you think if it was as simple as up and down, in and out, that a few "pups" would get hung on our daytime lines. Ask around - I've never seen an undersized fish from the bottom. Has anyone else? If they have they are few and far between. If you give ALL of it some thought you have to reach the conclusion that the smaller fish do not like the cold temperatures on the bottom and the big fish like it. These are two seperate groups of fish that on occasion cross paths with a bigger fish coming up at night but that's about the extent of it. It is the very reason that I started my first post, that generated all of the replies, with the question about who knows just how many big swords might be off our coast. Are we even sure at this point if the fishing is seasonal for them? Will it wane in the heat of the summer or will it get better? Are they more prone to feeding at certain phases of the moon? We don't know much and fishing for them for 6 months can't tell us a whole lot. I just believe that your supposition about coming up at night to feed and going deep during the day isn't correct - especially with these really bigger fish that can stand the cold water at 1500 - 1800 feet. I think they could be caught on the bottom at night just as well as during the day. With so many more night fishermen (at least before the electric reel thing) why weren't more big fish being caught at night if they do in fact come up at night to feed. I don't think the lines at night ever gt deep enough to target the area where the big fish are. They might move shallower at night but that could be from 1800 to 1400 feet. I know of daytime fish being caught on the bottom on the dark moon in as little as 900 feet but that is a rare case. Does anyone at night ever get a line down to say 1000 feet and see if they get bites? Let me know how your experiments work out as all I can do is share my experiences with everyone in the hopes that it brings out thoughts from others and we all learn from each other.

CaptKen · 02-25-2008, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Klauber

To Capt Ken - good points. How long would you think it would take our recreational fleet to kill the 30K pounds that the longliner in the Carolinas did? I can't imagine the lost sleep and daytime drops it would take!!

If you go back and read through the link I provided, throw out the 1 line heros and peaunut gallery replys and read through, there was some good info by some real fisherman, I believe for Dec one of the best months out front, 30 boats, 30K+ of fish. But I believe it was more like 20 boats or less catching the brunt of the fish, but I could be wrong.
Also an interesting thing that was admitted, there is such a thing as 10-12 fish nights, admitted it only happens 2x a year, after doing some interviews on my own, I was told it happens 10x a year.

What blows my mind is if they admit that the average core size out front for the year is less than 50 lbs, What is NMFS thinking letting the commericals kill inside the closed zone? Im sure they have to know by now, Is the all mighty quota worth killing these pups in the closed zone ? What is going to happen to the cycle 5 years ahead ? and this is a rebuilt fishery now ?

Broadbill-Pro · 02-25-2008, 08:31 AM

Harry, I enjoy reading your posts. My point is that there is no way to estimate what a PLL catches. I have been skunked with 2200 hooks in the water and have caught over 300 fish in one day with 600 hooks. I am as close to an "expert" that this forum has on PLL and I will tell you that #1000 per day was always the PLL benchmark for success off our coast. That weight when achieved normally comprised of 1 or 2 fish over #200 and 6 to 10 pups. Ofcourse there were "slammer" nights, but the next 2 or 3 would even the score.

I really don't like loose references to something, unless there is experience to back it up.

BTW, my last two bottom trips produced zero fish and a net lose of 1000' of braid, hooks, lights, etc. There is one big summabich out there with a sore mouth, popped the hook 50' from the boat yesterday. Bottom dropping is hardly shooting them in a barrel.

Uncle Buck · 02-25-2008, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

Bottom dropping is hardly shooting them in a barrel.

You got that right. We finally reeled a fish up Saturday, after a combined 40-something drops over the past 3 months. But the dang hook fell out as soon as the swivel touched the rod tip.

At least it wasn't a giant. Maybe 60" max. It's hard enough just hooking 'em... landing 'em is a whole 'nother story.

Harry Klauber · 02-25-2008, 09:22 AM

Good points - well made. I am in South Miami and the buoy guys have more double digit nights than you might imagine, or they admit to. They don't want to be the target of why we are catching less on rod and reel.

The "powers to be" will ultimately decide who can fish for what, how they can do it, what size and numbers can be retained, and all of the rest that goes with it. Is anyone looking 5 years down the road - who knows. I think they focus on the last 12 months and that's about it. I never liked the "politics" of fishing - just the fishing.

The big push to make certain the recreationals report all of their landings is the attempt to fill the quota. So what if we never fill it and it's lowered. How many swordfish can you keep, and eat, before you start to glow in the dark? Catch and release works quite well on most of the fish and I'm sure most guys are out there mainly for the sport of it and on occasion they kill a fish for the table. There may be a "few" that are doing otherwise but I don't want to even talk about that. The point is that in the 70's after the longliners wiped them out you couldn't even get a bite and we all just quit fishing at night. I hope the Feds will "follow the dollars" and realize that, as always, the revenue generated from any rod and reel caught fish far exceeds that generated from a commercially caught fish.

Harry Klauber · 02-25-2008, 09:30 AM

To Broadbill Pro
You are about as "right on" as anyone on this forum and I think your experience and knowledge are invaluable to us all. I'm glad to see that you also admit that this bottom dropping isn't the slam dunk that the magazines all say it is. Bad press like that travels alot farther than the truth from guys like us that admit to what is really so. I guess if you want articles to sell they h

02-24-2008, 11:38 AM	#1 (permalink)
PURPLE FEVER Hooked Up Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: pompano beach,fla. Posts: 413	Sport Fishing Magazine March 2008 issue What a bunch of hypocrites! In the editorials on page 16 Rob Kramer (the illustrious head of IGFA) praises Doug Olander's previous editorial FEARING THE DEMISE OF THE SWORDFISH BY ELECTRIC REELS and states"regarding the use of electric reels,this is indeed a violation of IGFA rules whether or not the reel is plugged in."He states further"Is an electric knife only an electric knife if it is plugged in?" Then on pages 72 & 73 of the same issue are pictures of Mr. Olanders wife with the fish she caught on a Diawa electric reel! I wonder how Kramer can squirm out of this one? Daiwa makes fine non-electric conventional reels, why was'nt one of those models used? On page 20 of the same issue the inventors of daytime swordfishing state"say no to push-button swords"This comes from the gang who claims to have killed hundreds of daytime swords!The top tag and release captains over the past several years have only tagged 25-30 fish in the year. Why havent these stewards of conservation won the tag award? Maybe they are too humble OR? Last edited by PURPLE FEVER : 02-24-2008 at 12:02 PM.

02-24-2008, 07:29 PM	#2 (permalink)
JahMussa Hooked Up Join Date: May 2004 Location: Lighthouse Point, FLA Boat: Contender 31 Best Catch: 96" x 64" Occupation: Tackle Ho! Posts: 567	Good catch Bert.... Looks like they will be having "egg on their face" with a side of electric reel caught Swordy. Yum Yum! __________________ www.ILoveSwordfishing.com

02-24-2008, 08:30 PM	#5 (permalink)
cogzwell Hooked Up Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Boca Raton / Jackson Hole Boat: 2003 34 Venture Best Catch: crabs -- but well worth it Occupation: debt collector Posts: 262	Well said Harry!!!! Not at all easy as i once thought. it has been three long trips for me without a bite.....30-40 drops. hell, i have dropped an estimated 140-180 times since september with 4 fish landed. __________________ The Hailey Ryan

02-24-2008, 10:25 PM	#7 (permalink)
CaptKen Hooked Up Join Date: May 2004 Location: Sunrise/Dania Fla. Occupation: Power Plant Control Room Operator Posts: 856	Harry I feel your pain. I believe its the MISINFORMATION spread by these magizines and newspapers that everyone who dont know any better start to believe. In a recent thread Buoy Gear Landings December we had a buoy fisherman admit that the overall core size of a buoy fish out front throughout the year is less than 50 lbs, And another young helper admits right now the fishing sucks for them, I confirmed this with someone I know that fishes buoys, they are on 4 bad trips with a skunked trip, This tells me that when a pack of fish move through say during the winter months and some hang out that we call locals or residents, the local buoy fleet of 30 whipes them out and the fishing sucks as it does now according to one of local expert helpers. If you remember back just 5 years ago before the buoys, you could go out on any given night, moon phase or whatever and at least have 5 shots or maybe 10. Heres some more food for thought: {not confirmed but a good source in the know} while a Long Line boat comes ashore last week in N.Carolina with 30,000 lbs+ after a week of fishing and their average core size is 200+ , Makes me wonder whats going to happen to the cycle say 5 years from now, Are the 50lb or less cores the local guys are killin here the 200+ cores that could have been off N.C a few years from now ? If we cant reach the almighty quota now, whats gonna be the cycle 5 years down the road when the babies are being killed in the nursery down south and the breeders are being killed up north ? I bet if one added up all the rec caught fish day and night for the last 6 months it wouldn't add up to all the breeders killed by 1 L Liner off N.C in a week. __________________ http://home.comcast.net/~CaptKen1

02-25-2008, 08:31 AM	#17 (permalink)
Broadbill-Pro Grander Join Date: Jan 2006 Best Catch: When I look at a Commercial Fishing Vessel I see 300 million Americans and you only see the Crew Posts: 1,298	Harry, I enjoy reading your posts. My point is that there is no way to estimate what a PLL catches. I have been skunked with 2200 hooks in the water and have caught over 300 fish in one day with 600 hooks. I am as close to an "expert" that this forum has on PLL and I will tell you that #1000 per day was always the PLL benchmark for success off our coast. That weight when achieved normally comprised of 1 or 2 fish over #200 and 6 to 10 pups. Ofcourse there were "slammer" nights, but the next 2 or 3 would even the score. I really don't like loose references to something, unless there is experience to back it up. BTW, my last two bottom trips produced zero fish and a net lose of 1000' of braid, hooks, lights, etc. There is one big summabich out there with a sore mouth, popped the hook 50' from the boat yesterday. Bottom dropping is hardly shooting them in a barrel. Last edited by Broadbill-Pro : 02-25-2008 at 08:37 AM.

02-24-2008, 07:47 PM	#3 (permalink)
Harry Klauber Hooked Up Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Miami Boat: 284 Mako Best Catch: Blue Fin Tuna - 1049 Pounds Occupation: Retired USCG Unlimited HP Chief Engineer Posts: 354	I started swordfishing with rod and reel in the mid 70's and I have say we caught an awful lot of BIG fish. We didn't know all that much about what we were doing, and we did it with far less sophisticated gear than what we now have. It went on for a few years until the long liners got into it and the rest is a story we all know. I pose a question to all as I do not have the answer. Does anyone really think we have enough information on how many swordfish might live on the bottom in the deep water off our coast? Of course any fish killed is one less in the water but since these are all bigger fish, that seem to rarely feed above 1000 feet down, how do we determine what threat electric reels might pose? If you have ever caught a few you might have already noticed these fish caught on the bottom are often hooked on the bottom, and not even detected except for a slight lack of pressure on the line. Very few, if any, show any indication of their size until they are about 500 feet from the surface when they tend to get wild. We caught a 423 pounder a few weeks ago and wasn't 100% certain that we had a fish until she was 600 feet down and then we were sure. After that it was wild and crazy for awhile. On any given day ALL of the electric reel swordfishermen can never account for the catch that one long liner would make in a single night. We hear so much about the daytime swords being caught on rod and reel because as "sportfishermen" it's something that we can do even if it is "on the edge" as far as just how sporting it really is. We might have opened a can of worms for ourselves through our own innovation and the immediate predictable cry is the demise of swordfish off the SE coast. Look at what the buoy fishermen catch in a night. The daytime rod and reel catch pales in comparison. The buoy fish are worth what they are sold for and that's about it. No one seems to be jumping on them as we never reach our allocation so their catching them is okay but a guy buying $5,000 worth of pretty specialized gear and catching a few swords is now a big deal? Before we say too much let's wait and see if the additional landings from the electric reel fishrey bring us up to our allocation. Rods and reels have NEVER wiped out a fishery even if they were electric rigs. The central Florida Kingfish fleet in the 70's and 80's used overhead mounted car starter motors to power their "bug lines" and could easily catch 100 fish pre boat in a good day, and that was single handed. In those days, even with huge catches like that and a big fleet, it took the spotter planes and roller rigged net boats to do the damage. What they didn't catch the drift netters got. Once we got the "wholesale boys" out of the fishery the Kingfish rebounded as did the Spanish Mackeral. Another example of a single hook on a line never hurting a fishery. I think one of the problems we are facing when we read about the impending doom of the swordfish is the fact that everything we read makes it seem like all you need to do is have a boat, get out to a suitable depth, get a bait down to the bottom any way you can and you will surely be rewarded with an almost immediate daytime swordfish. If that is everyone's true concept of this fishery then I, and my friends who do this regularly, must have it all wrong as I want to be the first to admit that we go without fish on MOST days never even getting a bite on as many as 10 -12 drops. It's just not as quick and easy as the articles make it seem. In all fairness to people rushing out to spend alot of money because of the certainty of landing one of these big fish based on what they read someone should write an HONEST "how to" article and leave out the BS part about how easy it is. I know it sounds alot better to make it seem like all you do is catch, catch, catch whenever you get out there but in my experience it's just not that way. If someone cares to show me otherwise I welcome the experience to learn what I am missing. After being fortunate enough to land the 423 pounder I went 3 consecutive trips and never had a bite. If I make 12 drops a day that means in 48 drops I had one single bite and was lucky enough to catch the fish. If you think that's so easy I'd beg to differ.

02-24-2008, 08:09 PM	#4 (permalink)
Disco Lady Grander Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 3,178	COÑO!!!!!!!!

02-25-2008, 06:34 AM	#8 (permalink)
Broadbill-Pro Grander Join Date: Jan 2006 Best Catch: When I look at a Commercial Fishing Vessel I see 300 million Americans and you only see the Crew Posts: 1,298	Burt, Sportfishing magazines are the definition of hypocrisy. They allow misinformation to be spread in the hope of creating more sales. To my knowledge they have never retracted anything that has been written in error. It appears that they do not take responsibility for any of the articles. So why buy them? We have plenty of on-line forums to share our opinions with each other. The "experts" that contribute to the rags could not mate for most of the guys on this forum. I say leave the trash on the shelf and speak to the guys who actually have first hand information. Ken, We don't need to read that "night" swordfishing is not better today than it was in 2000 to know it's true, in fact the catches over the past 2 years seem to be dismal in comparison to year following the PLL ban. I keep reading from "experts" like Harry that all the recreational boats together could not equal one longliner or that the buoy boats only average a few hundred pounds per calm night because they can not fish when it's rough unlike a PLL'er. I hear all this wisdom, but none that points to why fishing has fallen off from the dozen or so bites per night of just a few years ago. There is no where to point a finger and that must burn the ass of many of the anti-PLL supporters. So what else is there to do except condem a 6 month old fishery. One thing I have learned is that those who point a finger are more times than not doing it in a mirror.

02-25-2008, 07:20 AM	#10 (permalink)
Harry Klauber Hooked Up Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Miami Boat: 284 Mako Best Catch: Blue Fin Tuna - 1049 Pounds Occupation: Retired USCG Unlimited HP Chief Engineer Posts: 354	I've NEVER proclaimed to be an "expert" - I just have alot of experience and am not afraid to call it the way I, and many other knowledgeable people see it. I have written contrarian letters to many of the magazines, even have written a few articles for some, but find that the real controversial issues are the ones they avoid - such as when their publication is in error. I'll still stick by every word in my post about what a single long liner would do in one set compared to what all of the recreationals do in the same night. Add the buoy guys in and then tell me who might be the responsible for the "demise of the swordfish".

02-25-2008, 07:21 AM	#11 (permalink)
Harry Klauber Hooked Up Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Miami Boat: 284 Mako Best Catch: Blue Fin Tuna - 1049 Pounds Occupation: Retired USCG Unlimited HP Chief Engineer Posts: 354	To Broadbill Pro - Good points from a guy that HAS alot of experience.

02-25-2008, 07:22 AM	#12 (permalink)
Harry Klauber Hooked Up Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Miami Boat: 284 Mako Best Catch: Blue Fin Tuna - 1049 Pounds Occupation: Retired USCG Unlimited HP Chief Engineer Posts: 354	To Night Fighter - funny how you noticed the decline at night to be just "co-incidental" with the appearance of the buoy fishermen.

02-25-2008, 07:25 AM	#13 (permalink)
Harry Klauber Hooked Up Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Miami Boat: 284 Mako Best Catch: Blue Fin Tuna - 1049 Pounds Occupation: Retired USCG Unlimited HP Chief Engineer Posts: 354	To Capt Ken - good points. How long would you think it would take our recreational fleet to kill the 30K pounds that the longliner in the Carolinas did? I can't imagine the lost sleep and daytime drops it would take!!

02-25-2008, 07:26 AM	#14 (permalink)
Harry Klauber Hooked Up Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Miami Boat: 284 Mako Best Catch: Blue Fin Tuna - 1049 Pounds Occupation: Retired USCG Unlimited HP Chief Engineer Posts: 354	To Cogzwell - Thank you - at least you are not afraid to admit it's not a fish a trip guaranteed. Anyone believing that is foolish.

02-25-2008, 07:55 AM	#15 (permalink)
Harry Klauber Hooked Up Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Miami Boat: 284 Mako Best Catch: Blue Fin Tuna - 1049 Pounds Occupation: Retired USCG Unlimited HP Chief Engineer Posts: 354	To Tunaman - You have it backwards my friend! Everyone understands the feeding patterns of swordfish in colder northern waters. I have harpooned many free swimmers during the day when I was younger off Block Island when they would leisurely fin on the surface where the water was warm as they digusted their nightime feed. Such is NOT - I repeat NOT the case down here. Ask anyone that fishes offshore alot when the last time was that they saw a swordfish on the surface during the day. I certainly haven't. You say these fish return to the surface at night to feed. The fish caught at night are almost always gorged on squid so the night feeders are just in the water column where the squid happen to be. Every fish I have caught on the bottom during the day has not had one single squid in it - not one that I have ever seen. Others might say differently but that's been my experience. All they ever have in them are the remnants of finfish and other unidentifiable "junk". I'm not a scientist, nor a marine biologist, but I pose this question to you - How come the daytime fish are so disproportionately large in size and numbers to the nightime fish. Far greater numbers of night fish are caught than day fish yet a larger fish at night is 300 pounds with most of the fish being barely legal. During the day we are annoyed if we catch a 150 as it hardly seems worth the effort as it's so small. Has anyone considered the fact that these bigger fish rarely come up high enough in the water column to be caught by the night fishermen? Of course a few do, and are caught, but the majority stay deep all the time and just don't mix with the smaller night fish. Don't you think if it was as simple as up and down, in and out, that a few "pups" would get hung on our daytime lines. Ask around - I've never seen an undersized fish from the bottom. Has anyone else? If they have they are few and far between. If you give ALL of it some thought you have to reach the conclusion that the smaller fish do not like the cold temperatures on the bottom and the big fish like it. These are two seperate groups of fish that on occasion cross paths with a bigger fish coming up at night but that's about the extent of it. It is the very reason that I started my first post, that generated all of the replies, with the question about who knows just how many big swords might be off our coast. Are we even sure at this point if the fishing is seasonal for them? Will it wane in the heat of the summer or will it get better? Are they more prone to feeding at certain phases of the moon? We don't know much and fishing for them for 6 months can't tell us a whole lot. I just believe that your supposition about coming up at night to feed and going deep during the day isn't correct - especially with these really bigger fish that can stand the cold water at 1500 - 1800 feet. I think they could be caught on the bottom at night just as well as during the day. With so many more night fishermen (at least before the electric reel thing) why weren't more big fish being caught at night if they do in fact come up at night to feed. I don't think the lines at night ever gt deep enough to target the area where the big fish are. They might move shallower at night but that could be from 1800 to 1400 feet. I know of daytime fish being caught on the bottom on the dark moon in as little as 900 feet but that is a rare case. Does anyone at night ever get a line down to say 1000 feet and see if they get bites? Let me know how your experiments work out as all I can do is share my experiences with everyone in the hopes that it brings out thoughts from others and we all learn from each other.

02-25-2008, 09:22 AM	#19 (permalink)
Harry Klauber Hooked Up Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Miami Boat: 284 Mako Best Catch: Blue Fin Tuna - 1049 Pounds Occupation: Retired USCG Unlimited HP Chief Engineer Posts: 354	Good points - well made. I am in South Miami and the buoy guys have more double digit nights than you might imagine, or they admit to. They don't want to be the target of why we are catching less on rod and reel. The "powers to be" will ultimately decide who can fish for what, how they can do it, what size and numbers can be retained, and all of the rest that goes with it. Is anyone looking 5 years down the road - who knows. I think they focus on the last 12 months and that's about it. I never liked the "politics" of fishing - just the fishing. The big push to make certain the recreationals report all of their landings is the attempt to fill the quota. So what if we never fill it and it's lowered. How many swordfish can you keep, and eat, before you start to glow in the dark? Catch and release works quite well on most of the fish and I'm sure most guys are out there mainly for the sport of it and on occasion they kill a fish for the table. There may be a "few" that are doing otherwise but I don't want to even talk about that. The point is that in the 70's after the longliners wiped them out you couldn't even get a bite and we all just quit fishing at night. I hope the Feds will "follow the dollars" and realize that, as always, the revenue generated from any rod and reel caught fish far exceeds that generated from a commercially caught fish.