Sport Fishing Magazine March 2008 issue

[Another Grand]

Originally Posted by CaptKen

My family didn't come to S.Fla on I-95, They came behind an ox cart down dirt roads that took a month and a half, hence the name Florida Cracker

Origin of Florida Cracker

There are three main theories about how the word developed. But none of the three conclusively show how and why the Cracker became applied to Floridians.

Theory One: Cracker comes from a Celtic word meaning braggart or loudmouth. Shakespeare used this sense of the word in King John. But the theory doesn’t explain why the word in this sense would be applied to the usually taciturn folk of the Florida backwoods.

Theory Two: The word comes from the practice of "corncracking" or grinding dried corn for use as grits and meal, as in the lyrics of the folk song Blue Tailed Fly, "Jimmy crack corn." When used in this sense, a Cracker is somebody who can’t afford any other food. But this theory doesn’t answer the question of how the word got applied almost exclusively to folks in rural areas of south Georgia and Florida. And, by the 1800s, the name "Cracker" wasn’t used to describe only impoverished settlers.

Theory three: The name comes from the sound of whips used to drive cattle and oxen. Florida cattlemen cracked whips to flush their stock out of the palmetto scrub while settlers used whips to spur on oxen that pulled their carts and wagons. Cracker has been used in this sense since the early 1800s. This is the most popular theory today. But it doesn’t explain why people were being called Crackers for centuries before Florida cattlemen began working in the scrub lands.

Personally I am leaning towards theory one

[The BEAST]

Originally Posted by tunaman81

I was just starting out swordfishing about 5 years ago.

Vinnie has that much time in the watch pocket of his Levi's.

That was a pun (play on words) and I thought it was punny!

[Another Grand]

I trust Justin's opinion on here above the great majority that like to argue. I agree with pretty much everything he says on here and if I were to expend some of my money to further research on swordfish, I would send it his way.

[John_Madison CT]

All I can say is that this is a great thread. I learned a lot. Keep it going.

[snooknreds2]

ok this is a great thread and I enjoyed reading it BUT....

what happened with the article? did some one bring this to the editors attention or did that just die?

[The BEAST]

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

Now if Mike would just ban Ron and Jim the world would be a happy place

Nice! Now you want to repeal Freedom of Speech from our constitution. You've made several comments like this in past posts. If you want your word to be the only word... There are many countries in this world that would probably suit your needs better in that respect! I'll help you pack!!!

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

I certainly would hope you considered undersize swordfish a bycatch?

Now tell me the number is near zero. The number more than likely exceeds that of fish harvested.

How many are released with hook tears, ripped jaws or bleeding. Survivers? I think not.

Buoy gear is the most eco-friendly way of harvesting Swordfish next to the harpoon. Referencing buoy gear like that only makes me wonder what condition the releases are on a PLL after hanging there for hours!?! Survivors? I think not!

I have watched you run from end zone to end zone. You have stated that most rec caught releases of any species are kills, yet you fish both day and night. Now you imply that buoy fishing is not near-zero yet you support indiscriminate PLL fishing.

Exactly where do you stand?

[Tuna Devil]

Originally Posted by CaptKen

Best Catch: When I look at a Commercial Fishing Vessel I see 300 million Americans and you only see the Crew

I stole that line from the Pro.

I know where you got it from. It was a litle much coming from you.

[PURPLE FEVER]

Well now I'm going to derail my own thread It was about hypocracy so I quess I wont be too far off. Anyway to state that the 30plus bouy boats have had no affect on the fishing is unfounded in my view.

How could that pressure not affect the fishing?

Several of us raised this concern 3 years ago when there were only 3 "legal" bouy guys and a handfull of unlicensed rec guys doing it for whatever reason.

Yes there are more rec boats now as well although not as many at night now and that has an affect but I'm willing to bet that if the commercial bouy fleet had never happened the fishing would be much better than it is now!

I'm not bouy bashing I'm just voicing my opinion. Sorry but I'm with Ken on this one.

[Tuna Devil]

Originally Posted by tunaman81

If you are that set on this remaining a closed zone, then outllaw all fishing for swordfish. Recreational anglers are pounding the fish day and night, and currently have a generous bag limit, and the fleet is incresing by the day. Don't get me wrong, I don't think they should close the are to recs at all (I love swordfishing), but that is along the same line of thought.

That is the backyard solution. And not a bad one.

If this is not the case, as it was said 100 times. One user group does not have the right over another.

[JahMussa]

Ken... most people that don't like "the other side" will throw stones at their glass house. So correct me if I'm reading this incorrectly but it seems you are throwing stones from inside the house.

Also Ken, if you have experience with other "pointy nosed fish" being caught on gear as bycatch or any other type of bycatch by a commercial guy, it must be reported in their trip report. Seems that if your buoy guy isn't reporting this info, then that's his business and is not being responsilble. But if you come online and post this is happening... I'm sure the people at NMFS (that are reading this), would love to know who you fished with.

It makes no sense to me. You seem to hate the idea of buoy fishing but you go buoy fishing from time to time. Sounds to me like the Preacher on Sunday morning is saying don't moleste little boys but does it anyway the following Monday just because he too is a hunter and wants the experience so he can protect all the other little boys.

And to Burt... 3 years ago... buoy fishing was legal for anyone to do it. It was just another means of fishing and I know guys that were fishing this way. I think it was Novemeber 2006 when the rules changed and buoy fishing was officially defined where the Rec guys could no longer fish buoy's. At that time, most guys with swordfish permits were only rod and reeling for them and have switched to both R&R and Buoy fishing.

As for the fishing being slow... it has been a terrible few months. But February always was slow so look back at your log books to see this. I don't know why we are slow but as someone else said... it's just a cycle IMO.

As for the big breeders being caught on the bottom during the day... While their were some really nice big fish caught a few months ago, there were equally as many big fish caught at night. They just were not talked about so don't think it was only a daytime thing.

I don't know if this is cycle or if it's due to the rec/comm fishing pressure. I'm going go think it's a cycle like the other fisheries for now.

Ok.. back to work

[PURPLE FEVER]

Tek you are right I guess it was legal if the fish werent being sold. Not sure that was the case thou. But thats old news and I am not trying to bring it up to stir the pot, it was only in reference to Ken and my theory.

I hope you are correct and that this is an unlimited resource going thru an off cycle. I think Professor O covered it earlier in this thread something about the strays not being able to stay here without getting caught.(see post #44 of this thread)

If I can stay off this damn keyboard I will write to Sport Fishing and point out their issues.

[Broadbill-Pro]

Originally Posted by The BEAST

Nice! Now you want to repeal Freedom of Speech from our constitution. You've made several comments like this in past posts. If you want your word to be the only word... There are many countries in this world that would probably suit your needs better in that respect! I'll help you pack!!!

Jim,

I would miss you and Ron way too much if you were gone. We would have to enhance another forum if that were to happen.

Buoy gear is the most eco-friendly way of harvesting Swordfish next to the harpoon. Referencing buoy gear like that only makes me wonder what condition the releases are on a PLL after hanging there for hours!?! Survivors? I think not!

Did I mention LL? I guess you automatically go there in reply to all my posts.

I have watched you run from end zone to end zone. You have stated that most rec caught releases of any species are kills, yet you fish both day and night. Now you imply that buoy fishing is not near-zero yet you support indiscriminate PLL fishing.

Exactly where do you stand?

It's a little late for me to be anti-kill, don't you think? I don't shed tears when a swordfish dies, I cry in anger when a hypocrit wants us to believe his hands are blood free.

Does implying that buoy fishing is not near zero bycatch have anything to do with PLL? Did I condem buoy fishing? I simply stated that it indeed has a high rate of undersized swordfish bycatch, am I wrong? If we spoke about a ball game would you answer me with a PLL reply?

Justin is consistant in not replying to me, I suppose he either discredits everything I say or believes that fishery science need be conducted from the stars only.

Another Grand: I trust Justin's opinion on here above the great majority that like to argue. I agree with pretty much everything he says on here and if I were to expend some of my money to further research on swordfish, I would send it his way.
Today 09:39 AM

Your joking right?

[snooknreds2]

[Harry Klauber]

I am here to learn as well as share what I know. If we are to assume the daytime and night time fish to be of the same group why are there such a large amount of very small fish caught at night with just a smattering of larger ones while almost every daytime fish is a big one compared to night standards? My contention is that the smaller fish are not comfortable at the deeper depths, and feed closer to the surface, while the big fish sustain well in very cold water and don't come up high in the water column that often. I'm sure if we fished much deeper at night the deeper lines would only get bit by larger fish.

[Harry Klauber]

Originally Posted by The BEAST

OMG! Here we go again! Using the example of a PLL trip off North Carolina generating income has no bearing on the State of Florida especially if you are only going to cite 200 fancy electric reels in S. Florida as rec revenue generated from fishing.

I wonder how many bus boys and restaurants went out of business due to the Swordfish boycott years ago? None! Is the only dish sold at restaurants, Swordfish???? How many, wholesalers, truckers, restauranteurs, busboys, etc, in your theoretical Swordfish circle went belly up due to the lack of catching Swordfish off the Florida coast? The only ones who felt the direct impact from the error of their ways was the PLL's and crew who couldn't relocate to fish out of the FEC after the closure.

WE all know that the only revenue generated by rec fishing is in electric reel sales, right? No yearly boat sales generating the state 6% on every dollar. Over $6 million in state saltwater licenses of which almost $2 million were out of state licenses (tourism), $95+ million (conservative) in boat registration fees, 6% state sales tax and .5-1.5% in local sales tax also on every dollar spent related to recreational fishing and the boat used to fish with. Gas tax (state and local) on every gallon sold at 1-2 mpg, bed tax (state and local), ramp/marina fees, boat sales, salesman, mechanics, and on and on and on!

Here's an excerpt I googled which reflected numbers in the early 90's when the PLL were in there hay day off our coasts and nets were legal in state waters... well before the state started generating more revenue by licensing recs, etc.:

Recreational fisheries are a big business in Florida, generating $115 million in state sales taxes in 1991. During that same year, more than 2.5 million people spent almost $2 billion fishing in Florida's waters. Florida's sport fishing industry supported 58,000 jobs which resulted in more than $1 billion in earnings in 1991. Commercial fishing is also an important industry in Florida. The dockside value of commercial fish and shellfish landed in ports such as Key West, Tampa Bay, and Fort Meyers, totaled almost $200 million in 1995.

The rec fishing industry in the State of Florida alone is a MULTI BILLION dollar a year industry and you equate it to 200 fancy electric reel sales in S. Florida. Typical Vinnie!

Thanks Jim - you rebuffed the Broadbill-pro for me. BTW I have seen you a few times in Ceasar's creek when we were running out in the 35 Contender with the triple 300's.

[Harry Klauber]

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

Justin,

We are not down on your contribution to this subject, but you come off as the final word on swordfish behavior. I have tagged well over a xx,a lot, xx of them mostly with harpoons and gaffs. In order to tag that many you have to stay one step ahead of them, know when their eating and where they are moving to next. I'm talking about living with them day in and day out and when your unloading in port, networking with other vessels who are staying with them. You don't get that type of information from a few PSAT tags.

We appriciate you relaying what the data reveals, but the only true indicator is the accumulation of vessel data. It is fact that bottom dwellers are larger, I have caught a few fish barely under #100 on the bottom so far, but that only reflects a small percentage of fish landed. There certainly seems to be enough bottom out there for small fish to find their place without


QUOTE:I would guess no 50lb fish is going to attempt to steal a bait from a 400lb fish, or it might become a meal itself.

I would be more inclined to believe that Harry has something there with the temp. theory. Whatever it is, one thing for sure is that there is not much size mixing down there.

Harry's 2 cents on the subject:
We obviosuly don't all believe the same things about all aspects of this fishery. I speak from personal experience which is all I can base my theories and opinions on. The politics of where the dollars from each fish caught come from and go to are not what I know much about. What I do know is what I see coming over the side on the boats I am fishing on and that is much smaller fish at night and larger fish during the day. I doubt anyone will dispute that. The big fish of course come up high in the water column at night but as was stated satellite information on one pup being at 1800 feet during any period of time does not mean that these larger and smaller fish actually mix that much. They may cross paths in their up and down feeding but I still maintain that the fish we are seeing during the day remain deeper most of the time and the smaller fish don't venture to the deeper/colder waters that often. The nonsense about a small fish fearing competing for food with a big fish because it could become it's next meal is - well nonsense. I also take with a grain of salt the number of big fish quoted as being caught on rod and reel in one single night unless that was 20+ years ago. In most 100 pound minimum kill tournamnts there might be 2 or 3 fish killed and 20 or more relesed. If those were daytime tournaments the kill/release ratio would be a 100% reversal.

The theory about the bottom narrowing the fishing zone is of course true. No one can dispute that there is less water from 1700 - 1800 feet than there is from the surface down to 1700 feet but that still doesn't explain why we don't catch a representative quantity of small fish from the bottom unless the one or two that are caught are really representative of what occasionally makes it down that deep while the big fish are there almost all the time. If I've lost anyone I use representative in terms of the entire population which I still theorize is almost two separate bodies of fish that see a few bigs ones up high and almost no small ones down deep.

[quack quack]

Harry you have a pm.

[CaptKen]

Tek

Im not biting anymore, Im done, Go back and read post 71 and 72, It explains everything you asked,skip 73,74,75. 76 is a pretty funny story about your squid partner. If you cant find the answers,you know my number.

One other thing, shortin all those pictures you have across the bottom of your posts, it sucks to have to scroll left and right to read what you wrote.

[Tuna Devil]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You picked the one I was in.


I couldn't resist.

[JahMussa]

Originally Posted by CaptKen

One other thing, shortin all those pictures you have across the bottom of your posts, it sucks to have to scroll left and right to read what you wrote.

My screen rez is 1400 x 1050 so they looked small to me. I changed my rez to 1024 x 768 and see what you must be seeing. Thanks for the info and it should be fixed for you now.