Hang Gear Permits

[Mike]

Would you buy a handgear permit if they become available. Remember we are still not reaching our quota, and it may be possible to get these permits for some of you guys.

Let me know your thoughts on this...

Thanks,
Mike

[RiskTaker]

Hey Mike:

My comment : On the opinion poll - would you consider the last response as (recreational & commmercial - rod & reel)

Would someone please educate the readers about what the definition of hand-gear is? I believe this would be good because some people would like to know.

This is a very important subject matter because I think that this can be a step down in efficiency from a long-line set.

This is very bizarr: in an era of becoming highly efficient in everything we do, we wish to de-tune a highly efficient longline fishing machine.

Bizarr: no , not really. Well longlines are way too efficient to perpetuate a sustainable fishery, in some places. (Look at history) Society demands that we become more efficient: a human reflex. But we know that certain methods can suck the life out of a sustainable stock, so we must adjust our methods accordingly. Perhaps hand-gear could be the next step down solution.

But before that happens, I would like to know why one can no longer place recreational traps for crawfish. 5 are allowed for regulated crabs, golly let''s throw this crawfish overboard. :???: Why the special illegality for crawfish. Another Grass roots issue, IMHO !!

Without a good response here you may start to become suspicious about the whole management concept. Not discounting that threre are plenty of suspicions already.

[hannaman]

I don't think the fishery is ready for these permits yet. As you know on any good night there are around 40 or more boats fishing 3-6 lines each. At a limit of 3 fish per boat over 47.5 inches each, not to many boats are getting their limit of 3 with the exception of only a handful of boats. We are not reaching quota because the fish are not there in our fishery out front. They will move through and stay awhile before they move on. This is shown by how on one particular night or even a few nights in a row where everyone catches fish, singles doubles, triples with lots of releases, and then the next night you can't even get a bite.
We need the fishery to be where hundreds and perhaps 1000's of fish are moving through the straits before we put any kind of commercial pressure on them. With the small amount of Swords coming through now and the amount of recreational boats fishing them, this can be compared and equal to commercial pressure.
We can't put a number on how many Swords are moving through, but by the numbers being caught it's not impressive. Even if everyone was boating 3 fish, the next issue is size. These fish get to over a 1000 pounds. When we can start boating fish when the norm is over 200 pounds ( and not a 100) thats when our fishery will be healthy. It CAN happen and thats why we need to keep fighting for the Swordfishery.
If it's done right within 5 years or more we may be regularly catching 200 pound fish + with hearing of the occasional grander. :shock:

[RiskTaker]

Great comments Cary:

I would be especially happy just to see the occassional half-grander, 500 lb. fish.

Got to go fishing to try for one .

[tunaman81]

I agree with Hannaman. Well said.

[LegalLimit]

Way to go Capt. Hanna,
The concept is not for from Quality Deer Management.. Works Great! Even if we never issue permits, all the better. What would be the logical reason to issue permts anyway. I could see if we were over run by Swords and they were endangering some other species. But that is far from the case. If and when we ever get over run by Swords than there should be some sort of lottery.

[CaptainEd]

Carry

That's all exactly right. Except the 40 boats on any good night. I've counted well over 100 many nights. I've even noticed that the fishing is tougher now since recreational swordfishing has been booming. I've had plenty of nights limiting out and some where you couldn't buy a bite. Even on nights when I have gone 3 for 3, I have never taken more than two. I have gone 2 for 2 and released 1 as well. This fishery is still in "recovery". I'd like to see the size limit go to 50" and the recreational limit got to 2 per boat. 3 is not necessary. It is in my opinion, excessive. I also think the third fish would be the one leaning some towards illegal sales. Obviously the honorable sportsman wouldn't sell any. But 3 swords = 1 hell of a lot of meat! If the sword numbers were thriving and there was data to show it then maybe 3 per boat. With the booming popularity swordfishing is experiencing I just don't see that happening. There are a lot of recreational boats out now and the numbers are only continuing to grow. That, coupled with the easy access on how to successfully catch these fish, there slow reproduction rate and excellent table fare = lot's of boated fish. Time will tell that is certain.

[FinalPoint]

Great comments all. 0123

[bullfighter]

The swords are on a significant rebound. We just had a huge victory with the longliners, why mess it up by giving out hand gear permits? I think that would be kind of hypocritical, you can't sell fish but we can; I also think it would be a slippery slope towards allowing commercial fishing again. I don't know about you guys, but the reason I swordfish is to feel the power of these fish on rod and reel, and to feel the sense of accomplishment after a successful night. I don't think it is possible to have these same feelings catching them with hand gear. I know many of you do this for a living, and would make some decent money, but that profit would probably be very temporary with thousands of vollyeballs floating out there. This fishery is awesome, and getting better every year, lets keep it that way by going strictly rec.
Maybe in a few years, if things continue to rebound, it would be nice to be able to sell a single fish per night, caught on rod and reel, to help out with the costs, but I agree with Cary that the fish are not ready for this yet.

[Anonymous]

Keep it a recreational fishery only. the fishery is just finally making a come back. Let it grow, there are still nights that we go out there and the radio is dead and you only hear 1-2 fish being caught. Mean while there are quite a few boats out there soaking baits. That should tell you that the fishery even though it is good it still has a long way to go.

If people have permits they would probably keep fish that the otherwise would have let go. No to Commercial Fishing!!!!!!!!!

[RiskTaker]

Yep, I think that any type of commercial (fish for sale) allowance will loco-motivate any individual to some form of financial gain, even it is merely to subsidize the M&R of fishing gear and conveyance, or cover for fuel and bait. This is just the definition of a sustainable-hobby, but even so, people would like to break even or stay slighly in the black if the opportunity were available. 1+1=2

Allow yet another level of part-time income fishing opportunity for those that still have their day job, but would like to moonlight for a few extra dollars to cover or enhance a challenging life(style)... And the fishing pressure keeps building UP. 2+2=4

Now, the guys that have a day job, or a night job to just catch fish to support their life(style) as a primary career need a much larger "Nut" to survive, and stay ahead of the welfare lines and subsistence living. This magnifies the fishing pressure likely in a multiply factor, say: 3x3=9

Allow recreational fishermen to dabble in the commercial (fish for sale sector) and the Full time commercial fishermen will/are SCREAMING FOUL so LOUD, you will definately know it.

Just for giggles, add those numbers together and you you would get an arbitrary number of 15 for fishing pressure. There are enough people on this planet that can easily justify this level of pressure. However, there are not enough swordfish on this planet, that can withsstand that level of pressure and co-exist. The pressure must be in the low numbers to even achieve a balance. Perhaps substitute rod&Reel commercial fishing for the hand-gear number and we may possilby be tapping our maximum limits already, unless the consistent reporting of data can show otherwise.

From my outlook on life, I believe first and foremost that the individual/family unit has the right to the very first picks at a natural resource, like fishing, hunting, farming, minerals, etc. If individuals cannot tap that resource or exploit it to a ""well managed"" extent, then ""permit"" or allow professionals that are trained to perform such a task. And if it is a public resource, some of the gain should roll back to the community of people and/or other living creatures co-existing in the same eco-system.

But obviously we believe that we are the Masters of this Universe and everything else bends to our Will. But with that stance we are also now responsible to ensure that we do not decimate everything, just for the pleasure to be "King" for a day in cosmic time. Without that cognizance, only some formidable monster will survive and everything else will be extint, along with the insects and the junk fish.

So in all fairness and consideration for the guys who catch fish commercially, I suggest that we not indulge in fishing for profit, as good as that sounds and I would just absolutely love to sell some fish too, like everyone else to pay for something. But in exchange for refraining from this, we put a maratorium on long lining fishing pressure in the proximate recreational zones. We should also refrain from added pressure or even reduce the pressure further, until the demographic transistion passes the common sense test. Show me significant numbers of the population above the 125 lb. band

I also suggest that we should refrain from Commercial Hand-gear fishing, in any form, until we can pass the common sense litmus test. Some people say, and based upon the recovery we are at ""90-110%"" of the sustainable fishery levels. This statement does not seem consistent with the localized fishery off the Florida straits. Capt. Carey said it quite plainly: we should be consistently be catching substantially bigger fish on a regular basis before a common sense litmus test can also concur that we have a healthy fishery or sustainable stock.

When the recreational fishing pressure cannot keep up with the harvestable supply and we are catching 100, 200,300, 400, 500 and a few exceptinal fish from 550-900 lbs, that is the right time to allow incremental doses of more presuure, but that would likely tip the balance again for a trend reversal. That to me is a common sense statement that we have a good demographical supply of fish out there and the stock is in a pretty good standing and we can continue fishing without further restrictions.

If we cannot achieve this type of demographic transistion within the next 5 years, something is still wrong. And we should consider greater restrictions on the recreational side too, if we have not already done that by then.

""Who moved my cheese?"" RT

[reyespada]

JUST FYI , hand gear does include rod and reel. Any issuance of permit should probably be limited to those who have commericial qualifications (i.e. appropriate safey gear covered by Commerical Fishing Vessel Safety act, commerical insurance, and a track record of fish sales over x amount) Any joe shmoe cannot get a premit for most fish, king mackerel, snapper, grouper, and other resitricted species included. Swordfish would likely not be any differnt Also you should be aware that the the commercial limit is different (more) than the recreational limit.

[kabo123]

There already is a boat out there useing this permit, but just 1. If you start allowing more people to fish commercially, it well pave the way for the long liners.