Miami Herald Sun, Jan. 06, 2008 - Page 2

WhItEoUt 23 · 01-11-2008, 11:13 AM

ameristrat · 01-11-2008, 03:48 PM

To get back to the actual subject, I probably will get killed for saying this but, I am a supporter of dropping the bag limit to one fish per boat per day. I honestly don't see how people can eat so much swordfish in such a short period. I mean, I eat quite a lot and a single 47" fish, I couldn't eat by myself if I ate swordfish for a week. I cringe when I see pictures of guys killing more than one sword over 100 pounds because, really, is it going to be eaten. I guess my point is, if it will be eaten, great. But why kill more than you're going to eat in a week. it isn't that good after that long anyway and, becuase we're lucky to have a good fishery (for now), chances are you can probably get back out there and get another. I am firmly against NMFS' decision to reopen closed areas at all, though I am okay with bouy boats.... That covers about all of the points made here....
PRACTICE CONSERVATION!!!
It feels good, I often get more joy out of seeing a swordfish swim away strong and healthy than I do killing one and I swear I'm not bullshitting.

FinalPoint · 01-11-2008, 05:00 PM

Ameristrat -
I hear what you are saying. The only time I've ever killed more than one was when I knew I was going to be giving away lots of meet and I was also having a party. Saying that it is only good for a week isn't exactly true though. We had some company over around Christmas time and I thawed out a 10 lb. chunk of swordfish from a few months before and it tasted excellent. Also, vacuum packed steaks stay good for over a year if you really want to keep them that long.

As for releasing fish - it is a great feeling. For those who never do it, give it a try. I know we all get that killer instinct when the fish is coming to the boat and we want to practice our gaffing skills, but try your releasing skills too. Billing a swordfish for the release can be crazy sometimes.

The BEAST · 01-11-2008, 07:27 PM

When I came on this forum a year ago I asked those same questions. I got railroaded for imposing a 1 fish per night rule on my boat. Since that time they have convinced me that the quota is mightier than the tag stick and we should kill our limits on every trip for the sake of Swordfishing. Oh yeah, but not with electric reels during the daytime. After all, isn't that the express supposed reasoning behind allowing the PLL EFP's.

As far as having too much meat! NEVER! My mate and I are very popular in our neighborhoods!

Kill more fish, it insures the survival of the species, according to the experts.

RiskTaker · 01-11-2008, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The BEAST

When I came on this forum a year ago I asked those same questions. I got railroaded for imposing a 1 fish per night rule on my boat. Since that time they have convinced me that the quota is mightier than the tag stick and we should kill our limits on every trip for the sake of Swordfishing. Oh yeah, but not with electric reels during the daytime. After all, isn't that the express supposed reasoning behind allowing the PLL EFP's.

As far as having too much meat! NEVER! My mate and I are very popular in our neighborhoods!

Kill more fish, it insures the survival of the species, according to the experts.

Capt. Jim:

Your posts are always controversial. Sometimes your posts are right on as far as conservation is concerned, sometimes your wit slants it off base, and as always it is ceaselessly against the PLL fleet. But among them all, you seem to stir the pot, no matter what. I think we may affectionately have to call you Chef Jim, and switch out the Trident in your Avatar and replace it with a giant wooden spoon: the perfect tool to keep the Kettle swirling.

Since I came on this forum in 2004, we used to discuss tackle and rigging tips with the intention of boating swordfish and sharing swordfishing stories and reports. Maybe even a little bit of funny stuff too, as well as keeping tabs on the swordfish conservation scene. Newbies have learned to become apprentice swordfishermen, with the advent of this internet forum, where it may have remained a closed world, except for a select few. Far and away this forum has been dedicated for ways to enable the recreational fisherman to catch swordfish. In all this time, rare has been the night or day for that matter, a full limit of fish has been caught: be it 1, 2 or 3, or even 4 fish by a true recreational fisherman, even those addicted to the sport. Most recreational fishermen don't even catch and keep one fish per trip, let alone their limit.

But every once in a while you should be gracious enough to let a dog have his day. No problem with setting your own standard on "the Beast". Maybe once in a while a fishing boat will limit out. Great. let's bring it on! I would like to achieve it some day, just to say that we can have such a great day. Yes, we want our grand kids to have the same opportunities. Agreed, we need to be environmentally balanced and if we keep up our vigilence it will hopefully remain on the high end of the MSY unit+ measuring bar.

But the reality remains to keep it all in perspective. Let the recreational fishermen catch their fish. A boat load of 4 men may want to keep 4 fish when the rare occasion could become reality, with proper talent, lady-luck, technique, stamina, bait and operating expense money. But we have our tag sticks ready for use too. We may keep fresh caught swordfish in February, frozen until a 4th of July party or longer, such that it is still available whenever you don't successively keep boating more fish for whatever reasons.

Sure, the bulk of the fishing pressure resides with PLL style fishing. So you are right on, to blame PLL (hopefully all of them and not just the highly regulated domestic fleet) if there is a serious demise in the fishery, as they have and will continue to be the major contributor of the swordfish harvest, including by-catch dead or alive. Buoy harvest 10% perhaps, recreational harvest 1-4%; sure I think we can all agree who the heavy hitter is.

So what is the point to dwell on any criticism with recreational harvest details? Perhaps if every swordfishing bound rec. boat caught a limit of 4 fish, once per season, and a single fish every other time out, they may account for up to 10% of the harvest. In this situation, recreational impact may have some significance. But this is just not happening even with the popularity and knowledge base being at all time highs, even including sunny side harvesting.

Apparently, to the world of International politics it may be significant for the US to catch its duly allocated amount of the International swordfish pie; or else it will be shared or divvied out to other nations that want more Pie. Of course, killing more fish is not healthy for the fishery but it may have a strategic advantage for the US of A to hold on to what we've got, which you so proudly cherish and not OUTsource more of it away.

If the swordfish are going to be anihilated for the next go around of PLL fishing, it only makes sense that the size of the pie to be consumed to be reduced. Many people scoff at that proposal because it does not seem make sense with International rationale. But the reality is: we should be focusing on that task specifically. That is conservation where it really matters: the portional reduction of thousands (1000s) of metric tonnes of swordfish removed from the North Atlantic Ocean.

Your focus to avoid removing fish from the ocean remains a noble statement. But do you really believe that it matters so much with a recreational angler here or there releasing a fish. Sure, release a fish if you don't need it or really want the fish. Put a tag in it while you're at it. Sure', let's do that too, to understand these fish better.

But I must say that the pot is stirring relentlessly with all the chefs hanging by the kettle. Does anyone have another good swordfish recipe to share? Swordfish Gumbo?

Or a technique to improve the daytime hookup ratio, as it seems pretty dismal from the reports of all the break offs.

I just don't get it as to all the nit-picking of what styles the recreational fishermen are doing when the BIG issues remain outstanding.

A short memo from RT.

ameristrat · 01-11-2008, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiskTaker

A short memo from RT.

Hahaha

I like your definition of short. I agree with... damn, i can't remember who now I think it was you RT that most of the time we won't catch our limit at all - likely, we won;t catch four swords let alon 4 swords over 47"....

I guess my main point was I hate to see fish get killed uselessly and it seems like there is general consensus here which is really nice to find. I have a few buddies who kill it if swims regardless of what it is and I HATE that mentality.

I've noticed a lot of the guys on this forum seem to be very careful about what they kill and what they release - more conservation minded.... I like it, it makes me worry less about our fishery

if only long-liners were the same.....

Broadbill-Pro · 01-12-2008, 09:20 AM

BEAST WROTE:
Kill more fish, it insures the survival of the species, according to the experts

Again you define the objective with your slant. The US killing more fish will keep more of the quota in our conservation regulated hands and away from Nations who have no bycatch regulations. Tell the entire story or don't tell it at all.

RISKTAKER WROTE:
Sure, the bulk of the fishing pressure resides with PLL style fishing. So you are right on, to blame PLL (hopefully all of them and not just the highly regulated domestic fleet) if there is a serious demise in the fishery, as they have and will continue to be the major contributor of the swordfish harvest, including by-catch dead or alive. Buoy harvest 10% perhaps, recreational harvest 1-4%; sure I think we can all agree who the heavy hitter is.

Good post Mike, but have you or anyone else on this forum ever considered that recreational fisherman consume 10% of the US production, thus there being a need for PLL to catch the remaining for the rest of the US population who desires to spend $30 a plate in a restuarant? The US production of swordfish must be alloted evenly upon the population who desires it. It is not reserved for your user group.

AMERISTRAT WROTE:
I've noticed a lot of the guys on this forum seem to be very careful about what they kill and what they release - more conservation minded.... I like it, it makes me worry less about our fishery

if only long-liners were the same.....

Nearly all PLL'ers are more conservation minded than this entire forum could ever begin to achieve and have integrity that you could only hope for. Do not mistake the gear type with the man. During the last century PLL became the gear of choice and these men utilized the most effective way to produce a desired product. There still does not exist a more productive way to catch swordfish. Everyday we learn ways to use that gear in a more conservation friendly manner. I do not see many recreational fisherman making self imposed conservation measures beyond the current regulations.

As for not worrying about the fishery, the recreational fisherman who catch the most do not contribute to this forum. I can give you 5 names who catch more than this entire forum combined, you only see their fish when a leak developes.

ameristrat · 01-12-2008, 04:44 PM

Notice I said worry less and not 'not worry' - and I do set personaly limits... we do noy kill more than three of ANY fish on my boat per day (this includes dolphin, kings, tuna, wahoo, etc.), and I don't than one sword a day. I also try not to kill ny swords short of 100 pounds.

Anyway, those are my personal limits.

I didn't mean to sound acussing or condescending when I said, ';f only long-liners were the same.....,' I meant it more as a joke and a jab pointing out that they would kill more fish than we do (obviously, it's their job)

RiskTaker · 01-12-2008, 10:08 PM

Thanks Vinnie:

I was not trying to pick on the PLL fleet on the last post, just reinforcing the perspective of where the biggest dent of swordfish harvest comes from.

Agreed, without the supply from the PLL fleet, there would be hardly any swordfish to be served at restaurants throughout the nation, even to many that are recreational fishermen yet they still buy fish through other retail channels restaurants, fish mongers, etc.

What I am really trying to drive home is: people are wasting a lot of keystrokes and time by picking on the recreational fisherman for their impact to the swordfish harvest.

I agree with Professor O's suggestion to keep serious fishing pressure out of the narrow banded straits of Florida. At this moment the most significant is the PLL methodology of fishing.

I think that you are one of the most valued contributors to this forum in the past two years, because you for one have, been there done that, and that you are not discouraged by all of the sheise that has breached your gunwales. Thank you for keeping it up: happy 2008. You have been solidly informed; although that knowledge is challenged daily. At least, I think that you have provided a rational fair minded response every time. No recreational fisherman can do that, no matter how many years of fishing have been accumulated.

Many, may not like the concept of PLL fishing. But once you start understanding how it gets done then your horizons start to peel back the horse blinders. Masses will be fed, by their own demand, no matter what. Suddenly, the concept of compromise seems reasonable, unless your are subscribing to the 4th Reich. Then, only the supreme dictator will decide how it will be done. I don't think that I will subscribe to that prescription any time soon. Arming up has been on my Christmas list.

Perhaps you could be right that NMFS may possibly be doing best with what their job description IS. It seems so complicated with all of the different interest groups; yet it is still so simple when a prolific and harvestable fishery is the common goal. But how to deal with ICCAT? We need to reduce the N. Atlantic quota: it is the only thing that seems to make sense based upon the USA conservation/harvest educated balance. The Demand side does not seem to indicate to the contrary. The long term supply side seems to demand a steady state maximum MSY very close to 1.

Hopefully, we are sufficiently educated by this point in time that we will never again cycle into an exhausted swordfishery. Yet the fishing pressures will remain relentless.

Cutler · 01-13-2008, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Buck

NMFS upped the rec limit to 4 per boat max... regardless of time of day. They're obviously not concerned with the rod-n-reel fleet doing critical damage. Besides... for every boat that has caught a daytimer, how many others have not? It's not a guaranteed method. We've got nearly 30 unsuccessful drops to prove it. Of course, we'll keep trying until we get one... but that'll probably be our last attempt for quite a while.

Im with Bill on this. Willie and I have 60+ drops all over from Miami to Delray without any action at all. I would rather go catch tarpon....which is much easier.

Nick C · 01-13-2008, 05:20 PM

Tarpon? Lets take ur boat! Oh wait... never mind.

Cutler · 01-13-2008, 05:47 PM

your such a dick

chaos · 01-13-2008, 11:30 PM

ive always wondered why a commercial rod and reel permit hasnt been suggested especially with a 4 fish per boat limit this could possibly help the quota and most fisherman with the gas bills . a permit that almost anyone could buy.

RiskTaker · 01-14-2008, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaos

ive always wondered why a commercial rod and reel permit hasnt been suggested especially with a 4 fish per boat limit this could possibly help the quota and most fisherman with the gas bills . a permit that almost anyone could buy.

Oh the suggestions are made often enough. But how fair is that when a quasi-recreational angler can now command such a permit, when the PLL fleet must stay far at bay?

There is also a long listing of quality fish preservation observations that may be sub-optimal for uniform commercial fish harvest: solid icing, coring, etc.

Believe me, I would love to cash in a few dollars for a lucky fish harvest, but you have to balance that with the trade-off of PLL fishing right in your backyard. You never know what the future may bring. But I would prefer to continue without PLL in this area.

BTW - It is one thing for recreational electric Rod and reel fishing and a much more damaging solution for commercial swordfish harvest. Does anybody know the loopholes? Please explain.

Ron.38 Special · 01-15-2008, 11:03 AM

One of the most important things missing from any of these discussions is the loss of insight into the fact that just because the North Atlantic Swordfish populstion is healthy, does not guarantee that the local abundance remains high.

In the mid 70's when we lost the fishery to the extensive PLL efforts in the Straits, we had a North Atlantic biomass of 1.7 or more, much higher than it is today. But, we have a great reative abundance in the Straits.

Is the local abundance due to North Atlantic Biomass issues or does the fact that PLL's have not fished this area for 7 years have more of an affect on our fishing.

No one at NMFS or on this forum has come up with relative facts that support any theory as to why we lost our fishery when the biomass was so high. Obviously we had a low local abundance even with a high biomass oceanwide.

We also talk about residential fish. This therory is supported with both PSAT and standard tagging results which certainly suggest a population of fish spen a long period of time, maybe two years or more in our waters, without any evidence that says they leave during that period.

So if we attack the residential fish population with bouy gear, recs, and deep dropping, we could see a local reduction in our catch for a given effort.
Some talk on the waters suggest we may be already seeing a reduction in the local residential fish population due to local pressure. Probably the only data we have with consistency is the tournament reporting and catch rates over the years. This is the data that will support or rule out the local abundance issues.

Of course we know Swordfish are HMS's. But that relates to the total life cycle, and does not mean that all of our fish pass thru on their way to somewhere else.

And when relating to bouy gear, aks anyone what the catch rate was with a couple of longliners working off our coast, and compare it to todays bouy gear. I think you may be surprised at how high the actual catch rates are during certain times of the year. Also remember that at times, the monthly bouy gear landings are 5 % to 10% of the total monthly catch. That IS significant in anyones calculations.

I also note before I am attacked for not stating it, is the fact that the large breeders etc being caught on the bottom are probably migratory fish and not residential but no proof of that has been shown.

The truth is we know very little about what is going on at the bottom in 1800' of water and a lot of scientific data is needed to make real representations about these fish.

Also, BTW, look for some great press releases from FWC in the coming weeks now that we have our new Florida Pilot Programs for HMS species approved by NMFS and funded by congress. Florida walked away with more $$$ for this new study than any other geographical area, and the data may help the US at ICCAT when more swordfish landings data is collected. I worked on that workgroup with NMFS and FWC and we are excited to get the program going. I'll provide more info after our kickoff meeting early next month.

Ron Coddington

tunaman81 · 01-15-2008, 02:21 PM

Quote: