How Ruff is too Ruff for a Tournament?? - Page 2

Jesslyn · 10-02-2007, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Joe McGivern

Where is tighty? I would like to hear his comments on this subject. After all his tourneys were great

Thats funny I dont think we will see tighty around here for quite a while.

lcagator · 10-02-2007, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesslyn

Lcagator, I agree with your post. There is no doubt that Rick Peoples does an excellant job. His event is first class. The origional question is, how ruff is too ruff. If the show goes on in 10 foot seas, then in your mind would it go on in 12-14 foot seas etc.? The second part of the question is for all tournament directors, If you have a tournament in ruff seas (small craft advisory) and something does happen can the director be held liable for negligence?

I would agree that once they post a small craft advisory, at that point, it should be cancelled, etc. Because, as we all know, if something happens, boat insurance does not cover damages if you are out there and such a warning is posted. For me, epecially swordfishing AT NIGHT, I think anything over 6 should be when you call the tournament; since you are going to get the occasional 8 footer coming at you anyways in those kind of waters. For sailfishing, being that it is so close and on the reefs egde, and although sporty, a bit higher waves should not be a problem; again, if no warning is posted.

Either way, you have to be crazy and have guts of steel fishing in those kinds of conditions anyways!

CompleteAngler · 10-02-2007, 08:41 AM

If i felt it to be unsafe on saturday night i would have not gone out, no matter what money is involved. I ran out at 5:30 right when we where able to pick up the shirts to get to the spot and make sure it was fishable and safe. I was constantly checking the garmin weather radar and talking with other boats to make sure the conditions did not get worst.

It was rough on saturday nigth but i was still able to side drift without a sea bag out and the waves would just float under us. We would bob up the wave and down.

It is easier for a director to call it, cause you will always have 1 crazy guy that will go out, and then others will follow.

Your best bet is wait until the last minute to join if you are worried about the weather.

quack quack · 10-02-2007, 08:44 AM

It is never to calm to scare me!!

Jesslyn · 10-02-2007, 09:02 AM

I did not know that about small craft advisorys and insurance. Wow that means on Saturday Night if there was a small craft advisory out and a boat got sunk there is no insurance?

Bonnie&Clyde · 10-02-2007, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesslyn

I did not know that about small craft advisorys and insurance. Wow that means on Saturday Night if there was a small craft advisory out and a boat got sunk there is no insurance?

Thats crazy. I Think its time to call my insurance company.

DIRTYFOOT2 · 10-02-2007, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quack quack

It is never to calm to scare me!!

Some conditions favor larger vessels, some favor the smaller more nimble vessels. Common sense should prevail always. A good Capt knows his vessels limitations. A good tourney director knows 6-8 wind chop is more dangerous than 10' rollers. Part of what keeps us fishing is the unpredictable nature of the seas. Prepare for the worst, and let no amount of prize money cloud good judgement. 6-8 w/ a short wave period would be a resonable cutoff imo..........

CAPTINMITCH · 10-02-2007, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIRTYFOOT2

Common sense should prevail always.

If it did, you'd have no need for the Coast Guard, SeaTow or boat insurance. Seriously, until somebody gets killed, this crap will continue.

Jesslyn · 10-02-2007, 12:20 PM

At the 5:05 advisory NOAA issued a Small Craft advisory Saturday night

Another Grand · 10-02-2007, 05:16 PM

Simple Fact is this.......nobody is a pu$$y for wanting to live, and nobody is a bad tournament director for wanting the show to go on. I do believe rough seas and inclement weather can play a good part in seperating the best of the best. There is a considerable difference between the roller and the wind chop, however, one bad thunderstorm when the rollers are already rolling during a North wind and you are in a world of shit!

That being said.....safety first, end of story. There is a point where, as an event director you have to look at not just the current conditions but what is predicted in the next 36 hours. I am not judging either of these tournaments that made the call for the show to go on this year, but, both times the weather was not stable, and it was predicted to get worse as the night went on.

Therefore, I agree with Drew.

To the tournament directors, I would suggest you have a talk with your attorneys to understand exactly what that liability waiver, excuses your from. I spoke with one of my professors about this after Swordlords. I explained the situation and showed him the waivers that most of the tournaments use.

Make a long story short, you are gonna get screwed if the format to the events doesnt change allowing an opt out of some sort as a result of weather. It is negligence as Matt suggested....."reckless disregard for the safety of your participants" It will not matter that your tournament falls under a corporation as certain events allow the law to "pierce the veil" of the corporate structure and hold an individual personally liable.

Additionally, even though I know not all the current events are covering their asses with insurance. However, your insurance policy likely has a clause in it to this effect as well. The ones that would cover you for the entire event are primo money because of the nature of the tournament and the number of partipants. Typically, your insurance policies if you are getting them as we did for the Jurassic Drift cover the weigh in and not the actual event, thus why your attorney's mandate the waiver.

This is a double edged sword because not only will you be potentially liable, but if you dont have the financial backing, the participant or the participants family will be screwed on the recovery side of things when they are rightfully deserving. It is like the "Sapase Mabule's" driving aroung with no car insurance, they hit you, and then what???? You get screwed.

Again, like last time, I wasnt there so I cant say it was or was not too rough to fish not am I judging a decision.....but.....just a word to the wise....we are a letigious society, look at the situation with the observers in the day tournaments....the risk reward is not there.

Talk with your attorney or your insurance agent as I have and you will likely conclude the same.

Disco lady is a bitch....Cono!!!!!!.....he is da man!!!

Just my .02, not trying to pass judgment or start an argument.

BTW.....THIS IS IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM LEGAL ADVICE, I AM JUST A STUDENT!!!

Disco Lady · 10-02-2007, 05:19 PM

COÑO!!!!!!!!!!

Another Grand · 10-02-2007, 06:12 PM

Btw....Jessylyn.....

Ruff

A stiffly starched frilled or pleated circular collar of lace, muslin, or other fine fabric, worn by men and women in the 16th and 17th centuries.

A distinctive collarlike projection around the neck, as of feathers on a bird or of fur on a mammal.

A Eurasian sandpiper (Philomachus pugnax) the male of which has collarlike, erectile feathers around the neck during the breeding season.

So.....to answer your question....when is ruff too ruff......my answer would be...... when it is located near the muff, ruff is too ruff

Nick C · 10-02-2007, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another Grand

Btw....Jessylyn.....

Ruff

A stiffly starched frilled or pleated circular collar of lace, muslin, or other fine fabric, worn by men and women in the 16th and 17th centuries.

A distinctive collarlike projection around the neck, as of feathers on a bird or of fur on a mammal.

A Eurasian sandpiper (Philomachus pugnax) the male of which has collarlike, erectile feathers around the neck during the breeding season.

So.....to answer your question....when is ruff too ruff......my answer would be...... when it is located near the muff, ruff is too ruff

omg

lcagator · 10-02-2007, 08:04 PM

Jesslyn, just curious. Did you fish the tournament this past weekend? If so on what boat and did you fish the second night?

Jesslyn · 10-03-2007, 06:42 AM

Yes I did I was on a 33 foot boat with a 12 foot beam and we did not fish the second night as we deemed it unsafe.

ProfessorO · 10-03-2007, 07:29 AM

6-8' seas implies a good chance of feeling a 12' hitting your boat.
small craft advisory was posted by NOAA and the winds were
blowing 25 out of the NE, the tournament should have been called
off. I bet there will be even less boats in the next one if the
director has no concerns for safety. Tony has offered full
refunds to boats in his tournament for iffy weather, and they
called the Miami Dolphin's dolphin tournament off this year
under similar conditions (Bouncer was in charge of a wheel
and the capts spun for their catch!!!). In this case, the
decision is much more difficult being the second event of
a two night event since some folks who don't have a chance
to win would opt out to get back some of their $$. cheers, arthur

Disco Lady · 10-03-2007, 07:46 AM

PURPLE FEVER · 10-03-2007, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another Grand

Btw....Jessylyn.....

Ruff

A stiffly starched frilled or pleated circular collar of lace, muslin, or other fine fabric, worn by men and women in the 16th and 17th centuries.

A distinctive collarlike projection around the neck, as of feathers on a bird or of fur on a mammal.

A Eurasian sandpiper (Philomachus pugnax) the male of which has collarlike, erectile feathers around the neck during the breeding season.

So.....to answer your question....when is ruff too ruff......my answer would be...... when it is located near the muff, ruff is too ruff

Johnny too much

:

billspilingup · 10-03-2007, 10:48 PM

A ruff muff is too ruff,
But if I've drank more than enough,
And the morning will find me feeling rough,
I'll settle for a little scruff on her muff.

And I don't really care to swordfish in anything over 4-6' chop and try not to go any night it's going to be blowing over 10 knots.

Tunachaser · 10-04-2007, 07:23 PM

I, for one, will be honest and tell you all that it's ALMOST never too ruff
I like the ruff stuff and always have my can-o-snuff (Copenhagen that is)
I like it ruff, but that doesn't make me tuff (or very smart

)
I've been known to take a puff of the funky stuff and a little is never enuff
BUT, when it comes to the ruff muff, y'all can keep that stuff
If your lady has a ruff muff. . . . She's gotta make that thing behave and learn to shave

10-02-2007, 08:41 AM	#23 (permalink)
CompleteAngler Lines In Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 20	If i felt it to be unsafe on saturday night i would have not gone out, no matter what money is involved. I ran out at 5:30 right when we where able to pick up the shirts to get to the spot and make sure it was fishable and safe. I was constantly checking the garmin weather radar and talking with other boats to make sure the conditions did not get worst. It was rough on saturday nigth but i was still able to side drift without a sea bag out and the waves would just float under us. We would bob up the wave and down. It is easier for a director to call it, cause you will always have 1 crazy guy that will go out, and then others will follow. Your best bet is wait until the last minute to join if you are worried about the weather. __________________ Nelson, Complete Angler Fishing Supplies, Inc. 6827 S.W. 40 Street Miami, Fl 33155 305-665-2771 www.completeanglerfishing.com

10-02-2007, 08:44 AM	#24 (permalink)
quack quack Old Salt Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: lake worth Best Catch: 25lb codfish 5 yrs old first hanger Posts: 4,456	It is never to calm to scare me!! __________________ Either we can be a part of the solution or we can be the victims of a decision.

10-02-2007, 05:16 PM	#30 (permalink)
Another Grand Hooked Up Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 971	Simple Fact is this.......nobody is a pu$$y for wanting to live, and nobody is a bad tournament director for wanting the show to go on. I do believe rough seas and inclement weather can play a good part in seperating the best of the best. There is a considerable difference between the roller and the wind chop, however, one bad thunderstorm when the rollers are already rolling during a North wind and you are in a world of shit! That being said.....safety first, end of story. There is a point where, as an event director you have to look at not just the current conditions but what is predicted in the next 36 hours. I am not judging either of these tournaments that made the call for the show to go on this year, but, both times the weather was not stable, and it was predicted to get worse as the night went on. Therefore, I agree with Drew. To the tournament directors, I would suggest you have a talk with your attorneys to understand exactly what that liability waiver, excuses your from. I spoke with one of my professors about this after Swordlords. I explained the situation and showed him the waivers that most of the tournaments use. Make a long story short, you are gonna get screwed if the format to the events doesnt change allowing an opt out of some sort as a result of weather. It is negligence as Matt suggested....."reckless disregard for the safety of your participants" It will not matter that your tournament falls under a corporation as certain events allow the law to "pierce the veil" of the corporate structure and hold an individual personally liable. Additionally, even though I know not all the current events are covering their asses with insurance. However, your insurance policy likely has a clause in it to this effect as well. The ones that would cover you for the entire event are primo money because of the nature of the tournament and the number of partipants. Typically, your insurance policies if you are getting them as we did for the Jurassic Drift cover the weigh in and not the actual event, thus why your attorney's mandate the waiver. This is a double edged sword because not only will you be potentially liable, but if you dont have the financial backing, the participant or the participants family will be screwed on the recovery side of things when they are rightfully deserving. It is like the "Sapase Mabule's" driving aroung with no car insurance, they hit you, and then what???? You get screwed. Again, like last time, I wasnt there so I cant say it was or was not too rough to fish not am I judging a decision.....but.....just a word to the wise....we are a letigious society, look at the situation with the observers in the day tournaments....the risk reward is not there. Talk with your attorney or your insurance agent as I have and you will likely conclude the same. Disco lady is a bitch....Cono!!!!!!.....he is da man!!! Just my .02, not trying to pass judgment or start an argument. BTW.....THIS IS IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM LEGAL ADVICE, I AM JUST A STUDENT!!! Last edited by Another Grand : 10-02-2007 at 05:34 PM.

10-02-2007, 08:04 PM	#34 (permalink)
lcagator Lines In Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Palmetto Bay, FL Boat: Wellcraft 290 Coastal Posts: 69	Jesslyn, just curious. Did you fish the tournament this past weekend? If so on what boat and did you fish the second night? __________________ Playin' A.G.E. Fishing Team

10-03-2007, 07:29 AM	#36 (permalink)
ProfessorO Hooked Up Join Date: May 2004 Location: Hollywood, FL Boat: Wellcraft 270 Coastal Best Catch: All of them Occupation: Professor of Physical Oceanography Posts: 495	6-8' seas implies a good chance of feeling a 12' hitting your boat. small craft advisory was posted by NOAA and the winds were blowing 25 out of the NE, the tournament should have been called off. I bet there will be even less boats in the next one if the director has no concerns for safety. Tony has offered full refunds to boats in his tournament for iffy weather, and they called the Miami Dolphin's dolphin tournament off this year under similar conditions (Bouncer was in charge of a wheel and the capts spun for their catch!!!). In this case, the decision is much more difficult being the second event of a two night event since some folks who don't have a chance to win would opt out to get back some of their $$. cheers, arthur __________________ Writing has proven to be hard work, often painful. I can honestly say that I would rather be fishing (Linda Greenlaw, The Hungry Ocean, 1999).

10-02-2007, 09:02 AM	#25 (permalink)
Jesslyn Hooked Up Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 668	I did not know that about small craft advisorys and insurance. Wow that means on Saturday Night if there was a small craft advisory out and a boat got sunk there is no insurance?

10-02-2007, 12:20 PM	#29 (permalink)
Jesslyn Hooked Up Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 668	At the 5:05 advisory NOAA issued a Small Craft advisory Saturday night

10-02-2007, 05:19 PM	#31 (permalink)
Disco Lady Grander Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 2,929	COÑO!!!!!!!!!!

10-02-2007, 06:12 PM	#32 (permalink)
Another Grand Hooked Up Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 971	Btw....Jessylyn..... Ruff A stiffly starched frilled or pleated circular collar of lace, muslin, or other fine fabric, worn by men and women in the 16th and 17th centuries. A distinctive collarlike projection around the neck, as of feathers on a bird or of fur on a mammal. A Eurasian sandpiper (Philomachus pugnax) the male of which has collarlike, erectile feathers around the neck during the breeding season. So.....to answer your question....when is ruff too ruff......my answer would be...... when it is located near the muff, ruff is too ruff

10-03-2007, 06:42 AM	#35 (permalink)
Jesslyn Hooked Up Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 668	Yes I did I was on a 33 foot boat with a 12 foot beam and we did not fish the second night as we deemed it unsafe.

10-03-2007, 07:46 AM	#37 (permalink)
Disco Lady Grander Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 2,929

10-03-2007, 10:48 PM	#39 (permalink)
billspilingup Hooked Up Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Lighthouse Point Boat: 31' Ocean Master Best Catch: 300lb & 200lb back to back daytimers Posts: 446	A ruff muff is too ruff, But if I've drank more than enough, And the morning will find me feeling rough, I'll settle for a little scruff on her muff. And I don't really care to swordfish in anything over 4-6' chop and try not to go any night it's going to be blowing over 10 knots.

10-04-2007, 07:23 PM	#40 (permalink)
Tunachaser Hooked Up Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Fishwhistle, FL Boat: Tub Works Custom Best Catch: 83" Sword Occupation: Arabian Goggle Provider Posts: 284	Ruff-N-It I, for one, will be honest and tell you all that it's ALMOST never too ruff I like the ruff stuff and always have my can-o-snuff (Copenhagen that is) I like it ruff, but that doesn't make me tuff (or very smart ) I've been known to take a puff of the funky stuff and a little is never enuff BUT, when it comes to the ruff muff, y'all can keep that stuff If your lady has a ruff muff. . . . She's gotta make that thing behave and learn to shave __________________

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