Wind-On Horror story

[CaptKen]

Thurs night Davie is sewing heads on and Im setting out the rods, We dont even have um all out yet and the middle jug bends over and starts to melt away @ 15lbs on an 80w, right away Paul pushes it to 25 lbs and he is going faster as I am screamin to get this thing fired up and movin now ! then burried at 35lbs and 1/2 gone then 3/4 under a min. then we are down to less than a 100 yards left and we are at 15 kknts going out to sea in 6' waves crashing all over us and draging all the rest of the gear behind us, not gaining he is still taking but slower, after 5 min at 15 knts we start to slowly gain an inch at a time. we get 1/4 spool back then 1/2 and we start to slow down. 30-35lbs for 5 1/2 hours and we have him to the wind-on, it goes on and off the reel 3 or 4 times,then all of a sudden its in the guides not quite on the reel and it goes off like a rifle bullet ! POW !
The mono slipped out of the dacron, and yes I made it so theres nobody to blame but me, I learned from 3 differnt guys which I consider the best, We caught a few 150 lbrs and smaller ones on the same type and worked well, I am just not convinced that they can hold up to that type of pressure for that amount of time.

Any way I AM DONE WITH WIND-ONS THEY ARE OUTLAWED ON MY BOAT ! So if you go with me on my boat and you have a wind-on cut it off or leave your rod at home.
Ken

[hannaman]

Dam Ken that sucks, another big one lost. Was the wind on served and glued and all that sh...? Did the loop on your main line pull loose or the loop on the wind on? Are you using mono or braid mainline?

[CaptKen]

100 lb suffix- bimini- loop in dacron- 220 mamoi x-hard glued pulled out of the finger cuff, serve still on the end I have left, double wall

[Flatsfish B]

Did you see the fish? definitly a sword?

That really sucks, I use wind-ons and will continue until i have one fail.

[Shark Tagger]

Sorry to hear capt. you'll get her next time.. good job on getting out in those seas!!

we never really got into windons. They are much safer, but we have been using long leaders with success for a long time.

[dpdash]

I had two store bought windon's pull out of the dacron, both with fish right at the boat, like you. I still think the positive's outnumber the negatives, sorry to hear about that nice fish though.

[Warrior]

That story ruined my day...sorry.

[catching]

Ken, that just sucks, on a positive note at least she is not dragging a mile of line and might live to fight another day.

I am keeping the windons on, last fish wrapped in engines, trim tabs and if it was not for the windon's fish would have been gone.

[Beerman]

Dam it!!!! Just when i started to lean back towards wind ons, this happens........if this happens to me after having a swivel open on me.....dam!!!

[Sword Hunter]

Ive never had that problem before. Ive heard about that problem happening to a few people but for some reason I havent had it happen yet. Seems like the 220 has to much stretch step it up to at least 250 or 300. When the line stretches it thins in diameter, that plus ur guids hitting the double in the wind on prob caused the prob do you have the big big wind on guids or the smaller rollers? The larger guids are much better less friction.

[BirdDog0219]

I don't use wind on's my self. Time after time I hear this type of horor story. I ask why don't you guys take wraps on the wind on and hand line the fish to the boat cranking the wind on, on the reel as you go, or just use longer leaders and skip the wind on.

[Daytripper]

Faulty windons. cuff style with the mono passed all the way to the braided loop is the only way to go. Most people stop with the mono meeting the braid in the center of the cuff, But worked properly the mono will pass on through the braid in the center and work up all the way to braided loop. I have tested store bought and selfmade with rod in holder and tied to a truck that drove away with penn 70s with 40lbs and at half spool the 100lb Power Pro broke and not the windon.

[JahMussa]

Well you knew I would have to post here....

Sorry to hear this Ken! I know you are safe on the boat but without the use of a windon leader... you might loose something even more valuable than a fish. I respect your decision due to this windon failure but please realize that the windon leader isn't the problem. Please keep the bridal and bring it by the next time. I would like to see it and see if there was anything you could have done differently (besides pony up the $15

220 is a super hard line and doesn't strectch that much as compared to other lines. My guess is that the mono wasn't in far enough, the serve wasn't tight enough, the glue was not properly saturated in the dacron to bond to the mono. Not to mention you were probably creating a bad transition point for the windon while using the battle wagon. If you point the rod tip down to easily accept the windon it will certainly be best.

I have also seen windon's that are served to tight with spectra and where the serve travels down on to the mono... it will cut the mono when under extreme pressure. We no longer build them this way!

The failure points found in testing were mainly where the larger leaders were not tapered down to a point, or served incorrectly, or the mono wasn't inserted in the bridal far enough. We feel that our windon leaders have accounted for all these points of failure and therefore will hold up to incredible battles. We had a 9+ ft Leatherback Turtle estimated well over 600lbs pull a 36ft boat sideways. The Tiagra was at full drag for over 1 hour. And when I say full drag.. I mean there was no free spool left so you know it was well over 50lbs in the harness. It probaly took 5+lbs at freespool just to pull line off the reel.

Building windon's looks easy and simple. But until you see all the little critial things that go into making a windon (that you want to put your name on)... it's best to spend the $15/$20. The safety factor alone is worth $15/$20 bucks.

The windon is a critical part of the terminal gear. If you spend big bucks to buy an 80W, buy a rod to match, buy a quailty hook, buy a premium mono such as momoi or spectra like Jerry Brown, why in the world would someone look to save money on the windon? Might as well start making your own hooks too I know you like to build your own stuff and take great pride in catching fish on gear that you built. It's a great accomplishment to build the rod, build the windon, rig the bait just right, set your spread and finally have all the stars align just right to allow the illusive Unicorn to grace the fish box.

There's a definate moment of pride when it all comes together. But to give up on a system that might truely be the safest piece of gear on your boat due to your senario.... just realize that making windons might not be your strong suit. I want to run a marathon but just because I can squeeze into the spandex shorts and put my club foot into a running shoe... doesn't mean it's meant to be.

Again I'm sorry this happen. Hopefully this is for real and it's not some ploy to make me feel sorry for you and give you free windons for life just to keep you safe . If you would like, I have some free windons for you to use.

What ever you do on your boat is up to you... just please be safe!!!!!! BTW.. and for the record... I won't go on a boat that doesn't use windon's. So I hope you accept my offer. That way I'll get to fish on your boat one day.

-Tek

[Flatsfish B]

Ah crap, my wind on just broke Thanks for the offer Tek I was about to use 30 ft leaders and have the newest person on the boat wire the fish!

Kidding of coarse!

[Nightfighter]

Well put, Tek =D>

[JahMussa]

I saw your hands... I know you won't be leadering anything anytime soon

[Flatsfish B]

Originally Posted by JahMussa

I saw your hands... I know you won't be leadering anything anytime soon

#-o

[BirdDog0219]

Tek most of thes guys are still using 15' of leader from the swivle to the bait and still have to take wraps to gaff/harpoon a fish. I don't see where a wind on makes it any safer. I guess if your leader from swivle to bait was 4 or 5 feet it would be safer. I think safty is in learning how to wire a fish properly. I know on my boat I am the one to leader a fish for this reason.

[Flatsfish B]

Originally Posted by BirdDog0219

Tek most of thes guys are still using 15' of leader from the swivle to the bait and still have to take wraps to gaff/harpoon a fish. I don't see where a wind on makes it any safer. I think safty is in learning how to wire a fish properly. I know on my boat I am the one to leader a fish for this reason.

IMO you should use 6-8 ft leaders, or not waste using a windon if using 15ft

[chaos]

birddog are u saying 15' of leader attached to a swivel from the windon? why would anyone fish more than 5 feet of leader from a windon

[JahMussa]

True Birddog.... Windon leaders are useless when you crimp on 15ft of leader.

The use of a Swiveled hook crimped to your windon leader is the way to go for live bait. I even used a swiveled circle hook to catch that Leatherback turtle and we rigged a squid on that. But if you must use a swivel or snap swivel on the end your windon, the use of 3 to 6 ft of leader is all that's needed. With a 6ft leader, by the time the swivel hits the rod tip, the gaff will already be in the fish.

Guys that buy rigged squid... don't freak out! Just cut the premade leaders down and recrimp your loop if you are using a snap swivlel.

BTW... anyone know the best place to harpoon a Leatherback??? Just kidding and for the record, the turtle was released to cause havoc on someone else.

[BirdDog0219]

I don't know why they would but This is what I have seem alot of guys do. I personaly don't use windons my theroy is less connections less chance of failer.

[LIGHTINING STRYKER]

two things ken someone should of had the leader in hand i cant belive davie didnt.after five hours do you think the chances of a different connection holding up are any better.

[JahMussa]

You have a point Troy... 5+ hours tells me the windon was probably ok for the most part. I will need to see and hear more about the fight to figure this failure out.

The battle wagon might have added to the failure. How was the serve done?

[CaptKen]

Tek
It has nothing to do with the $15 bucks , for me it was understanding how and why they work and not trusting just anyone to do it for me. I spent way more than $15 bucks on line,dacron,glue etc. And you are one of the 3 I menchoned as a teacher, Maybe I didn't pay attention close enough, I thought I had it down dam good or I wouldn't have even put them on my rods. Its 3 days later and my arm still aches from winding and I havent stopped thinking about the whole deal, You will never ever be able to convince me that they can hold up to the kind of pressure we had on that fish for that length of time. We could have landed 2 or 3 marlin in the time we were on that fish with that much pressure. I think they do have their applications like smaller swords, But if I ever get a shot at SWORDZILLA again I hope a wind-on is not in the equasion.
Just about anybody you talk to that has been doing this type of fishing for any length of time knows of someone who has a similar story to tell with sword zilla. There is just too many tales of wind- failures for me to ever trust the fish of a lifetime again. maybe if the technolgy changes in the future I may re consider, they may be alright for a marlin or tuna you have boat side in an hour and a half but sword zilla is an entire differnt animal with amazing power.

I appreciate your offer for free wind-ons but to be honest I would just give it away. And if it were one of yours that failed I would be looking for someone to choke .lol thats yet another reason I elected to do it on my own, So I am now going off to choke myself.

Stryker
Hind sight being 20/20 we should have grabbed the leader and started wireing that bad dog up, Paul asked if we should, and If I had it to over I would have said yes in a heartbeat, No way I could have ,my arm was cramped so bad from winding that my fingers were balled up in a fist, I had to take my other hand and open my fist up.

[CaptKen]

Originally Posted by JahMussa

You have a point Troy... 5+ hours tells me the windon was probably ok for the most part. I will need to see and hear more about the fight to figure this failure out.

The battle wagon might have added to the failure. How was the serve done?

It was a stand up battle station on another mans boat.

I will show it to you teacher, grasshopper is done.

[Momentum]

Hey Kenny,

Take Tek up on that wind-on offer...then give them away to me.

How many swords do you have in the freezer for our Mako trip? Can't wait man...let's git' 'er done.

[CaptKen]

Originally Posted by JahMussa

You have a point Troy... 5+ hours tells me the windon was probably ok for the most part. I will need to see and hear more about the fight to figure this failure out.

The battle wagon might have added to the failure. How was the serve done?

OK Teacher Tek here is some evedince to analize that I cant stand to look at myself days later. In this photo with 35 lbs of drag we would at times have to pull the line into the reel an inch at a time, then he would take it away in an instant.



Troy Notice how all the rods are clear form the gunnels ??? .lol



I will save the rest for you for further analization, As you can see the battle station you can put some serious heat on them, With 35 lbs of drag it was nearly impossible to even pump the rod. There is no way in a cold in hell would you ever had me strapped to that rod in stand up gear, It would have whipped the Incredable Hulk !
Which leads me to a new design of a station that will be gunnel mounted in a blue water 0 degree rod holder for the SERIOUS small boat blue water angler. There is no way possible to put the kind of heat we had on that fish for that amount of time from a small boat otherwise. I know the stand up guys will call me on this but so be it.
I can say now that I think that only 1 mistake was made the whole night, Not handlining the leader when we were almost there for the 4th time.
The Capt did not 1 thing wrong all night, I would rate him with the top 3 BBC Capts. A very dear buddy of mine won the BBC overall and Master angler the year before last, I dont even want to tell him this story.
Ken
[/img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/CaptKen/swordzilla004.jpg[img]
[/img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/CaptKen/swordzilla003.jpg[img]
[/img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/CaptKen/swordzilla002.jpg[img][/img]

[JahMussa]

wow! I was thinking you were in your boat and that your battle wagon held the rod in a more vertical fashion. Seeing these pictures kinds eliminates the vertical angle theory.

But it's plain to see now what went wrong... It's all Pauls fault and half of Davie's fault. Paul doesn't have a beer in his hand and Davie only has one beer

That boat looks SWEET and I like the "Standup Chair".

Did mono totally pull out or did the mono snap inside the bridal?

[CaptKen]