Wind-On Horror story

[Beerman]

Originally Posted by chaos

why would anyone fish more than 5 feet of leader from a windon

The reason I have been fishing 15-20 ft of leader from the wind on is that its 25 ft less for an inexperienced wire man to deal with.........15-20ft of leader is much safer for some to deal with than 40-50ft of leader IMO.....but if I or someone that knows what they are doing and there is a ton of drag on the fish, I be dammed if I dont grab that wind on when it pops up and after hearing this story, I may go to the 45ft leaders again or going to make it a point not to put too much heat right at the boat with the wind on, I have heard these stories and have been warned, but i am still up in the air.

Still sucks Ken, you will get em next time, at least you didnt have a swivel open on you :???: and besides I fish 50's so i would have beend spooled :lol: :lol:

[just2fish]

kind of like to add my little piece of input. being a modeler all my life i have been around all kinds of adhesives. you know it as krazy glue. we call it ca ( c a ). bob smith industries (bsi) or zap both have a flexible slow cure version. when i make top shot's, after i finish wrapping the open end of the 200 jbhc (thanks tek) and the flex ca has cured i swab another patch about 1/2 way between the tapered end of the mono and the finished end of the jbhc. if you have ever tried to take a wind-on apart you will see the ca has bonded it's self to the mono leader. before i ever soaked one i put it through hell in my shop. then tried to disassemble it. the only test i have as to how long and how much pressure it will take has been only 45 min or so on a big fish we pulled the hooks on. i aint no small dude and i was damn near hanging from the splice before it broke in my shop. the jbhc 200 broke before the 200 moimoi. it broke in the pliers handles i had it wrapped in while i was pulling. i also use 10' or so of leader, so the fish is stuck before the leader has to be touched.

[Captain Ollie]

Ken, I know we talked about this but I can't remember now.

Who manufactures that boat?

Hindsight being 20/20 I should have offered my services and jumped boats to help you guys out in the end. You were only 2 miles due east of me.

EVEN IF I WOULD HAVE HAD TO SWIM TO SWITCH BOATS :shock:
I would have, in order to have gotten a shot at leadering that bad biatch.

[Flyin By]

Originally Posted by JahMussa

True Birddog.... Windon leaders are useless when you crimp on 15ft of leader.

The use of a Swiveled hook crimped to your windon leader is the way to go for live bait. I even used a swiveled circle hook to catch that Leatherback turtle and we rigged a squid on that. But if you must use a swivel or snap swivel on the end your windon, the use of 3 to 6 ft of leader is all that's needed. With a 6ft leader, by the time the swivel hits the rod tip, the gaff will already be in the fish.

Guys that buy rigged squid... don't freak out! Just cut the premade leaders down and recrimp your loop if you are using a snap swivlel.

BTW... anyone know the best place to harpoon a Leatherback??? Just kidding and for the record, the turtle was released to cause havoc on someone else.

Tek, are you saying I don't need a 15' leader for a snap swivle rig? That is what I have been using and it's a pain in the Azz. I would love to decrease it by 8' or so. Opinions please.

[Beerman]

Originally Posted by Flyin By

Tek, are you saying I don't need a 15' leader for a snap swivle rig? That is what I have been using and it's a pain in the Azz. I would love to decrease it by 8' or so. Opinions please.

He is saying that you can use a 20-25ftish windon with a snap at the end and use like a 5ft leader to squid from there.....

[Flyin By]

Ok Zack, what is the recomended lenth. I use 15' what do ya think.

[Nightfighter]

8 ft.

[JahMussa]

Originally Posted by Beerman

He is saying that you can use a 20-25ftish windon with a snap at the end and use like a 5ft leader to squid from there.....

Here's the long version...

We need a swivel inline to keep the line twist down while drifting around out there. So the "old fashion" way was to tie a snap swivel to your line and then clip in a leader from 10ft and up to 30ft to keep IGFA legal.

Since windon leaders are SO MUCH SAFER to use, most windon makers selling them make them about 25ft. This means you have 5ft to split between your double line on one side of the windon and the leader on the other end of your windon.

A good setup is a double line connected to your 25ft windon then crimp a Swiveled hook to the end for your live bait rigs. For dead bait, crimp a ball bearing swivel to the end of your windon leader. Then crimp a 4 to 8ft MAX leader. This way the fish is in reach with a gaff before the swivel gets close to the rod tip.

If you fish 8ft or longer below the swivel, you are at a higher risk of something going wrong. Keep in mind that a swivel swinging 12 inches from the rod tip can be very dangerous when there's slack line between the rod tip and the leaderman.

Picture this... you are fighting a fish on a 25ft leader. As the swivel comes close, the leaderman has you step back 2 or 3 steps so he can get the line and start taking wraps. Now the leader is being piled on the deck and I'm sure he's telling you to stay back but you want to see the fish so you do AS EVERYONE DOES... you lift the rod tip and step forward to the gunnel to look over. As this is done, sure as I'm typing this note, your swivel just wrapped multiple times around your rod tip which is probably a tough 80 class rod.

But wait... the fish isn't cooperating and the leader man dumps the line expecting you to fight the fish with the rod and reel. Oh boy... you are in for it now because if you are lucky, your foot isn't wrapped in the leader and the rod tip just snapped off since the swivel was wrapped around it. Or if you are not lucky.... you get pulled over in the harness as your foot was in the leader or the tip didn't break off. Here's the good news... Your buddies are probably shining a spot light into the darkness yelling for you in the hopes you pop up! Hopefully you do pop up. Cause if you don't, your buddies will experience the longest ride home of their life after being escorted in by the Coast Guard. They will then flip a coin to see who gets to call your wife and give her the bad news. The second call will be to me to buy windon leaders and require them on all rods from now on.

Looking at the big picture... what's worse.. a lost record breaking fish IF YOUR WINDON FAILS or making one small mistake without a windon and having to explain to the world why you just lost your best friend.

Stay safe and hopefully this is a story that will never play out with anyone reading it. So if you don't use windon leader systems properly and you ask me to fish on your boat.. don't be offended if I don't go. It's not cause I don't like you... it's because I consider you a friend and don't want to be there driving your boat home alone.

-Tek

[bluewater25]

or when you pull in the leader dont coil it on the deck, coil it in the water.

[Flyin By]

Thanks Tek, For now I am using all mono on the reel and hope to upgrade all four reels in the future, so I'm not investing in the JBHC at this time. I will have to look into the wind on. I agree with there is not a fish that swims that is worth a life lost.

[RiskTaker]

Tek:

Have you or anyone else tried tying a squid directly to a Ball-bearing hook? Obviously, the crimp and half of the B-B swivel need to remain on the outside of the squid for the swivel-action to function properly. So do you think that this may make a noticeable difference on the bites?

I am curious to test this out myself because, I too really like the idea of no knots, minimal linkages other than hollow core splices, and a direct connection straight to the hook, ie. B-B Swivelled hooks.

Typically, I will bury the crimp connection inside the squid, using an extended tag end to create a simple "edge stop" to prevent the hook from sliding back through the squid, or bunching it up. So, far I have had no problems with this style for drifted squid baits. (Trolled squids, IMO, require a sewn on styled aproach.)

But as an interesting note, I was out fishing with Trinidad Johnny one evening, and happened to notice his style of attaching a squid to a long leadered hook. He did not use a sewn on or extended tag end approach; rather, he used a small zip tie to cinch the connection, either through the loop of the crimp or through the eye of the hook. :idea:

So that makes me think of trying this style, with a B-B swivelled hook and a small zip to latch the squid on. I certainly would like to hear anybody's previous experiences with this, in the even you had discouraging results. If not, then consider it my invite to you to give it a try until you have established your own opinion on this style.

Certainly, this style is not for everyone. For one it is not as convenient as just snapping a pre-rigged bait onto a snap swivel. Two, not everyone is that particular in the style that they fish: some simply believe that if you hang a squid in front of a swordfish that is there, it will eat it. Three, B-B Swivelled hooks will run you about $6-10$ a piece, compared to a $1 or $2 for a perfectly acceptable LP style swordfishing offset J hook.

For me, I certainly don't mind giving it a try to see how it goes. It will probably just be those pesky sharks that may change my style faster than anything else, at $8 a pop for lost hooks.

[Midnightrider]

Ken, Is that Buddy at the helm :?:
I think the problem is that the combined age of the crew is 300....
does you husband fish.....

[JahMussa]

RT... The Leatherback turtle we caught was rigged just as you mentioned with the small tie wrap on a Swiveled Owner Super Mutu 12/0

Capt Mitch swears by just put the mantel of the squid on the hook and we have even done just that. The bite to hook ratio hasn't really changed but the rigging time has been cut way down

I have used the tie wraps for 2 years now on and off with the pin rig. I really like the swiveled hooks so find a way to make them work

[Beerman]

Anyone got a pic of these swivel hooks?? I want to see what they are about....maybe i can come up with something

[LIGHTINING STRYKER]

ken stop giving up all this info we need the 400lb fish to reproduce.

[Flatsfish B]

I did the zip tie thing, I thought it was amazing, but realized i was missing a lot of fish, at the end of the night when i pull the squid off the hook i realized they are harder to pull. IMO the zip tie holds to strong. I replace the zip tie with either thread, and copper ballyhoo wire, i go through and twist it twice and it is good to go.

[JahMussa]

Originally Posted by Beerman

Anyone got a pic of these swivel hooks?? I want to see what they are about....maybe i can come up with something

Owner makes the Jobu, Super Mutu, and Mean Offshore in the swivel version for big game fishing. Here's the Super Mutu 9/0, Offshore 12/0, and Jobu 9/0.



-Tek

[RiskTaker]

Beerman:

I hope you don't find this as a new excuse to experiment with, in order to drink more copious amounts of beer. :razz: Anyway, here are pictures of swivel hooks. TEK carries them.

I really like this concept, in spite of the grievance from Capt. Ken, about wind-on leader failures. I can concur that they can and do fail. I have had two fail on me already: one of which I made myself. See my wind-on leader picture below. (But notice that the 200# monofilament failed. (The serve and the double walled sleave/fingercuff held fast.)

I will typically sleeve about 4 ft. of monofilament into a double sleeve of (suitably matched) JBHC. Glue, serve (JBSC - 30#) and glue again. It may actually be cheaper and easier to just buy them, unless you are making quite a few. However, for the same reasons stated by Capt. Ken, I want to be the only one to blame for a wind-on failure. I also enjoy developing the skill to become proficient with this Hollow core specctra material. Spliced loops and inline splices first, then spliced loop wind-ons is a natural learning curve.

So imagine what happens when you have JBHC on your reel: 130# is the optimal/economical solution (perfect for the 50LRS/80Wide configurations), Terminated with a spliced double line, a/k/a no knot connection. A Wind-on leader with a 3-4 wrapped loop-2-loop connection followed by a crimped terminal B-B Swiveled hook. That's it. No knot linkages. Just one crimp for the hook, a loop to loop connection and any number of in-line splices, as needed for line repairs since they are nearly undetectable (and "touted as being 100% strong) but you do not have to respool everything. (Just replace the last 100yds. every year as scheduled maintenance, or as needed more often.)

In spite of all the fanfare of wind-on failures, they are still a great way to go, IMO.

--


(Note: Big fish popped this wind-on leader at the mono, out in the water. Best guess for failure was an introduced defect on the mono because I would expect the JBHC to fail first under extreme load. This was the same area where an LP Electrolume was clamped, without any additional chafe protection.) So I will head the advice to provide additional chafe protection, even for the light.


Oh well, Tek beat me to it. No sense in deleting a perfectly good post though.

[Flyin By]

FOund this a while ago was not sure how I could make them work for me but here they are. If Tek has them keep the money local..
www.ringedhooks.com

[kyle]

I've been using the Penn hooks with the swivels with no problems so far.

Doesn't mean there the best, but they worked for me on my 2 fish career.
But as far as hook ups were 6-8,which can't be too bad.
I also rig my squids LL style so the swivel doesn't affect them.

Thats my .02 take it for what its worth. (Which might not be much) :shock: