Night Life Swording 2/23 4 for 4

[quack quack]

I agree that some rec guys have a narrow focus on commercial fishing.The striped bass are doing better because of the health of their spawning rivers more than anything else. They allso stopped commercial fishing for them at the river mouths before and after the spawn.My family commercially fished for bass on the east end of Long Island for 300yrs without hurting the population.But when we stopped them from spawning by fishing the rivers and with all the pollution they did not stand a chance.That is the same reason the straight should stay closed to LL because it is a nursery.This is a swordfishing group that on a regular basis releases many legal swords.I do not know of another place that swords are caught that can say that.We all agree that overfishing by any means is bad but commercial fishing does have its place both in our economy and our history as a nation.The first school house built in this country came from money from commercial fishing.The money we had as a nation to support our economy without England came from commercial fishing.Do not bash commercial fishing or commercial fisherman without knowing a little history.Remember its not fish they are catching its mens lives.Sorry I have to add something else.Pollution is the worst thing for fish stocks much more than anything else.In the 50s and 60s their were more commercial fisherman working the Indian river with nets than in the 80s and 90s when we banned the nets.Has the fishing there gotten that much better NO why because the real damage being done is by pollution from runoff.The river is now a sewer.Any one want to go swimming by Taylor creek I would not.We need to stop the pollution and we sit back and do nothing about it.If you saw a guy setting a net you would call the cops and have the guy arrested.But every day enough crap is released into the river to kill 10 thousand fish and we do nothing.OK I will get get off my box now.

[MANATEE MANGLER]

Hey brodbill wasnt trying to take punches you should understand that swordfishing is really kinda new around here for the rec guys imean.Wasnt to to far back wen there was nobody on the 50 line except long lines.This is why alot of people have there blinders on.History kinda speaks for its self.I guess thats why no more LL around here.And you are right 1 marker is better than 2 rats,but Ihave never had the chance to see or catch any thing to the to the scale that the com guys do.So you may laugh or get pissed but if catch a legal fish or two and keep it.I dont care.iam just glad that I do have a chance to catch one of these great creatures and I hope that it will last.BTW iam not sitting deep water canal i got a fixed bridge and my boat is a 20 ftr.And I hope to have a beer and hear all about swording in the LL days.Verry intersted.

[Broadbill-Pro]

quack your well informed. i worked out of taylor creek in the early 80's. sold to D&D Seafood and Steve Low. pleasure to read your posts.

have plenty sea stories mangler, be glad to share them someday. just refuse to feel guilty for a career that was honorable. florida longlining developed from charter and private sport fisherman that found a better way to make a living than being a tour guide. caught my 1st rod & reel sword in 1977 with my dad. i am glad that the fishery has recovered and guys can experience the thrill of catching a great fish.

[Rod Chucker]

thnx Mitch. the question of commercial vs. recreational impact on fish stocks is always skirted by comm guys or ex-comm guys by saying stuff like "rec guys have blinders on". what does that mean anyway? we have blinders on and cant see that the bodies given the power to set rec limits are run by commecial fishing lobbyists? cant see that everytime commercial interests are removed from a fishery it recovers even with rec. fishing continuing? cant see that every major species of food fish in the worlds oceans are declining due to commercial fishing pressure?

I was fishing these waters when you could walk on the mullet during the spring and fall runs. The sharks were so thick that hammerheads would chase rays up onto the beach in ft. lauderdale. I saw the decline of spanish macks, blues, redfish, marlin, red snapper, (thats right, we used to have them on OUR reefs!), grouper, swords, spindle beaks and almost everything else that swims due to commercial fishing, especially LLs. they abused each fishery almost until extinction and then switched to another species once the one they were working was decimated. Take conch for example. conch were taken off the commercial list, but a little to late for them. they're almost extinct in florida waters, they were once as abundant here as in the bahamas. great commercial management in action - wait till they're all gone and then stop taking them.

commercial guys argue that other people in the country have just as much right to eat fish, i say HUH? let em come down here and catch a few to eat then. Dont use rediculous excuses to deplete a resource to the extent that my kids will only have the memories of the old man to go by and will never catch a sword themselves cause they're all gone - cause thats what would happen of commercial interests are not kept in check.

[CAPTINMITCH]

Blinders? Well, I used to sword in the 70s before the longliners showed up. Plenty of fish. Then it got so bad that you didn't go to your spot, you went where you weren't in the middle of a longline set. Then the fish disappeared. Then the longliners went away. Then the fish came back.

No blinders, I can clearly see the cause/effect relationship.

[quack quack]

RC: while I agree with some things you have to say and overfishing by any means is a very real and common problem around the world.In our area lets say from Vero to the keys do you think the biggest contributer to depleted fish stocks is overfishing or pollution and loss of habitat?

[CAPTINMITCH]

Originally Posted by quack quack

RC: while I agree with some things you have to say and overfishing by any means is a very real and common problem around the world.In our area lets say from Vero to the keys do you think the biggest contributer to depleted fish stocks is overfishing or pollution and loss of habitat?

Loss of habitat due to development, loss of habitat due to pollution then overfishing. If you do any diving, you'll see our reefs here are in desperate shape.

[J.P Freeman]

Those kind of nights don't come around often. Great job.

[quack quack]

captinmitch:AMEN BROTHER!

[Broadbill]

I think you all need to spend more time fishing and less time typing!

p.s. Pollution Sucks!!!

[quack quack]

Cant fish at work so I type :lol: dont tell the boss :shock:

[Broadbill-Pro]

thought swords were a HIGHLY migratory species? amazing that they have been rescued by closing such a small area to longlines. are the fish caught here resident fish or are they traveling to and from areas where longlining is still legal just to the north and south of us? this seems to be the place to get answers from the experts. i hope i was allowed to ask that without being asked to go to the other forum. i really would like to know the answer.

[Broadbill-Pro]

come on the answer is obvious, it's the next question that gets difficult.

[Rod Chucker]

i agree quack. i think pollution greatly contributes to depletion of near shore species in alot of areas. my sister lives in port st. lucie. i dont know the area all that well, so i went to take my 10 yr. old nephew fishing. i found that the river that flows into the ft. pierce inlet is so polluted that there are actually signs saying NO SWIMMING - NO FISHING - CONTAMINATION. thats pretty bad. i read that its because of nutrient laden discharge from lake OKEE thats supposed to flow south into what is now big sugar land. anyone from up around there know anything more about that?

i dont know the affect of pollution on offshore species, but i do know that there used to be a great yellowfin run in the stream in the 50s before comm. interests got involved in that fishery, when they did, BAM. giant yellowfins became very rare. same with big blue marlin. same with red snapper. same with redfish. huge schools of reds were common in the bay before comm. interests fished them to near extinction. now that they're off the menu, reds are rebounding. proof again and again.

Pro's question - highly migratory species. im pretty new to this species, so i cant call myself an expert by any means, but dont they call this area "The Nursery" for a reason? and anyone who knows the history of swordfishing around here, (i DID do some research on this), knows some basic facts. ONE - before the LLs there were plenty of fish around. TWO - after the LLs are gone there is fish around. THREE - while the LLs were allowed operate here the closest most rec. anglers could come to a sword was in a restaurant. basic sense dictates cause and effect - dont ya think?

i think its comm. guys who are blinded. they will fish a species so hard to make as much $ as possible, that it decimates the fishery - so they switch to a different species. Oh well, not enough marlin left to make a living, lets go for swords. oops, government got involved, lets switch to mahi. pathetic way to make a living if you ask me. destroying LOCAL resources to feed some fish eater in NY. by the way, we do dive alot in summer. its to the point now that we are so disgusted by the deplorable condition of the reefs that theres no real reason to dive broward anymore. thats pretty sad.

spiny lobster is next. if they dont do something drastic, (closing the fishery completely for a few years/taking them off the commercial menu), soon there wont be enough bugs left to reproduce and that'll be the end of them. comm. guys wont care, they'll switch to crabbing and i'll have nothing to show my kids but old pictures.

[Broadbill-Pro]

chucker, again let me repeat that i fully agree with closing the straights of florida to longlining permanantly, but my reasons differ from most and are based on experience. not from biased articles in marlin magazine and other propaganda targeted to enhance personal agendas. i do not make my living from the sea anymore, my sole concern is the survival of the species and probably that i enjoy a good debate. how else can we learn?

first of all this area was never refered to as a nursery until now. that term was reserved for the eastern bank of the gulf of mexico and carolinas south of hatteras, in our region anyway.

second you are correct that before LL there were plenty of fish and after LL there were plenty of fish, why do you think the LL's were here? because during the LL era there were plenty of fish here. sure there would be years when production was slower than normal, but swords always made a surprising come back every few years, just when everyone was pointing a finger.

the current success of recreational swordfishing has more to do with the amount of effort being applied, live bait, enormous artifical lights, flurocarbon and the fact that the entire fleet is focused on the sweet spot (50w). LL captains always knew that the axis was the hot spot but most nights it was impossible to set more than a few miles there due to other vessels in the area (tangles) and the fact that the drift made it impossible to get back the next day. so the comments that each LL has 500 hooks out in comparision to a rec. with 5 is not that accurate, empty hooks don't count.

i believe that with the current effort being applied to this area, the knowledge that the average fisherman has gained from such forums as this and the focus on the sweet spot (50 line) that nearly as many fish are being encountered as in the LL days (between miami and Palm Bch.).
i have experienced as many as 10 bites in a single night using 5 rods and was home by 11pm, apply that formula to a LL vessel and it would equal 6 months worth of catches in a single night. swords did need a break and they have recovered to the point that we can not catch them as fast as they are reproducing. that is a good thing and the future looks bright for them. but to think that the closure here was the main reason for the resurgence is idiotic. these fish swam past LL's before they entered the straights of florida and are heading towards many more after they leave here. the closure here only made it more enjoyable to drift and talk junk on the radio for the rec. fisherman.

[Flatsfish B]

Broadbill:

To my knoledge so far there are always fish form the south to the north, finding them east and west seems to be key. From what i have been told when a LL puts out a set, it spans east to west 2 miles or so or more. So to me some part of the net is in the sweet spot, to where if the fish are reel shallow or deep, not many anglers find them. Hope this makes sense. I think this is why the LL set will kill more fish. What do you think?

[Islander]

Broadbill, Now were getting some where

Welcome to the forum :thumleft:

How do you account for the collapse of our Sword fishery during then late 70's and the early 80's.

[Broadbill-Pro]

flatsfish - finding them N,S,E,W has always been the key. here in the straights there are 3 key elements, one being temp and current edges that run in a northerly direction, bottom structure and depth of the thermocline that hold fish. the key to the 50 line off hollywood is that it has the advantage of all 3, it is on the axis of the gulf stream and over pinnacles that hold a lot of bait. as you work further north the 50 line becomes less important but the location of the axis remains the sweet spot. yes, a longline will cover some of the sweet spot, but the guys who say 500 to 800 hooks per longliner in comparision to 5 rec. rods are misleading you or they just don't know any better. if a LL vessel has 15 successful hooks per night out of 500 it is considered a good days fishing, again empty hooks do not count. in regard to a LL killing more fish, it is certainly more efficient. but that is due to a system that is much like a long rubberband, most rec. fish are lost to angler error, that factor does not apply to longlines but is return a LL does not enjoy the bite per hook ratio that rod and reels offer.


Islander - i do not know the collaspe that you are refering to. the late 70's and 80's were excellant years here for swordfishing. i suppose you are refering to the fact that recreational fisherman were catching less and LL'ers were catching more. this is not a collapse, the fish were here big time

[quack quack]

[quote="Rod Chucker"]i agree quack. i think pollution greatly contributes to depletion of near shore species in alot of areas. my sister lives in port st. lucie. i dont know the area all that well, so i went to take my 10 yr. old nephew fishing. i found that the river that flows into the ft. pierce inlet is so polluted that there are actually signs saying NO SWIMMING - NO FISHING - CONTAMINATION. thats pretty bad. i read that its because of nutrient laden discharge from lake OKEE thats supposed to flow south into what is now big sugar land. anyone from up around there know anything more about that?

[Chucker you were ok till now but when you make a satement like this it is time to set things straight and give you a chance to think again before talking about things of wich you know absolutly nothing about.]
i think its comm. guys who are blinded. they will fish a species so hard to make as much $ as possible, that it decimates the fishery - so they switch to a different species. Oh well, not enough marlin left to make a living, lets go for swords. oops, government got involved, lets switch to mahi. pathetic way to make a living if you ask me. destroying LOCAL resources to feed some fish eater in NY. by the way, we do dive alot in summer. its to the point now that we are so disgusted by the deplorable condition of the reefs that theres no real reason to dive broward anymore. thats pretty sad.





Do your self a favor do not tell the commercial guy that catchs your bait how you feel the guy that gets your squid,ballyhoo/sardines,shrimp and let me know if you bye live bait I am sure he would love to charge you $1000 a dozen for your gogs. Thats if any commercial guy would deal with you at all.Which I think they shouldn't.You have know idea what you are talking about when you say any type of commercial fishing is a pathetic way to make a living.You are talking about some of the best people in our society today you jerk.You think all commercial fisherman must be a bunch of money hungry pirates the way you speak about them.It is surprising that a guy with like 20 posts and admittedly new to this fishery is now such an expert.A couple of posts ago you were asking why we report our sword catchs and how that will keep out the LLers remember that.I guess you catch all your own bait and have never eaten one single piece of fish that you or a friend didnt catch.No shrimp for you no salmon ever what about maine lobster or clams or Mrs Pauls frakin fish sticks.Do your self a favor look into the history of commercial fishing a little more before you go running your mouth.At one time 1 out of every 5 people in this country was a com fisherman.The bulk of overfishing around this country was done by forieign countrys before the magnoson act you no the 200 mile limit.I remember even after that we always had to call the coast gaurd to chase off the foreign trawlers that came inside the limit.The first to long line off this coast was the Japs in the 50s.That is were we as fisherman learned how to do it. Before that swords and tuna were only commercialy taken by harpoon or handlines and rod and reel.The swords were only taken during the DAY! The fishing styles we all use on the 50 today are all modified LLing technecis!do a little reading get the books Mens Lives by Peter Matheson,Striper by John Cole,Beatiful Swimmers,Spartina and any other book about the men and familys of commercial fishing.Many people on this forum know me now and know the kind of person I am so ask some of them if I am wrong.The reefs are in such bad shape because of pollution not over fishing.90% of all offshore baitfish either spawn or congrigate within a few miles of the coast at one time or another that is wy pollution has such a great effect on offshore fish's.No bait around no big fish eating them and so on up to us no fish to catch.If the squid and tinkers all go away so will the swords!They will find ther dinner somewere else and we will all be eating fresh farmed raised talapia and so will that fish eater in NY which by the way lands more fish than Florida commercialy.Chucker I have nothing against you but before you insult some one have a better idea about what you speak of.

[Broadbill-Pro]

BRAVO QUACK

the first few times i posted on this site i was immediatly jumped on and asked to go to other forums. i considered leaving because i figured that it is a losing battle for one opinion to overcome such ignorance and hatred towards commercial fisherman. fortunatly i hung in there a bit longer and realized that there are some members with the education and open mind to possibly make a change not so much in policy, but informing others where we came from and what needs to be done to improve the fishery both for recreation and commercial interests.

it is obvious that chucker is new to this subject, but he has the passion needed to take the helm from those of us who are getting tired of the battle. (i sat through way to many NMFS public meetings in the 80's) i must admitt that the comment about my profession being "pathetic" had me seeing red and after an hour of composing a reply decided to delete it rather than fall to his level. i believe that after reading posts from contributers such as yourself and risktaker he will understand that we are all in the same game, only with different colored jerseys on. when the whistle blows we should feel good about ourselves and keep from making malicious remarks. commercial fisherman touch everyone's lives, whether it be the fertilizer that helps PETA's vegs grow or the fellow who catches horseshoe crabs for medical research, life would change without access to the sea and it has been an honor to be part of that.

what really pisses me off is to pick up this months marlin magazine (wouldn't subscribe, steal them from the old mans bathroom) and read articles from the former IGFA pres that are mind boggling. where does he get those numbers? what does he know about patagonian toothfish? for one the longline is set in extremely deep water (+500 ftms) and with 20 lb. weights every 100 yards or so. when the gear is deployed is sinks directly behind the vessel at a rapid rate making it impossible for birds to have access to the hooks, same with hauling the line, there is a weighted mainline and a branch line that are pulled up together within 10ft of the vessel. the birds simply do not have access to the gear, but because seabass has become popular here in the states lets tell everyone that 333,000 albatross were killed to harvest their dinner. by the way if the fishery is (unregulated in your words) who is counting the seabird fatalities? for your information the french hold rights to most of the sea where toothfish are abundant, they patrol these waters with vengence. many vessel have been redirected to reunion island and arrested. he throws so many inaccurate numbers into one article that it would be impossible to address each in a single post. hey chucker are you related to him LOL. i suppose that funding for the IGFA is reliant on getting tempers flaring. i would like to see the statistics for increased funding everytime he publishes one of these pages of misinformation.