It can all go bad in a minute...

[cogzwell]

A very sincere THANK YOU to all boats that assisted Tranquilizer and its three passengers last night.

We had a potentially very serious situation that was eased by the unbelievable quick response and kindness of fellow sword boats in the area.

After we realized the motors would not turn over and after an attempt to jump the motors with a spare battery without success, we immediately called sea tow on 16 and were instructed to move to channel 78. We attempted to relay position estimates and then realized GPS was dead and the radio was fading. The bilge was completely full and so was the center console.

The crew went to work attempting to keep up with the incoming h20. I switched back to 16 and relayed the grim news “Tranquilizer taking on water and loosing power, engines dead, GPS inoperable, Approximate location --- sword grounds 79.50 26.08. Not sure if we were transmitting at that point and switched to the 72 after shooting our first flare. We heard several sword boats relaying back and forth in rescue mode and then the radio went dead. We then shot a second flare.

Within 5 minutes we had a boat at our side relaying coordinates back to shore and soon after two more boats to the rescue. All boats offered assistance and stayed with us until the CG and Boat US arrived – we even had a helo fly by.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU to Vitamin Sea Too, Big Deal, Making Time, and all the other boats involved. Our very nervous and seasick crews’ fears were put to rest by your presence. A truly unselfish act on your part and to you I am indebted. If I am not mistaken, Vitamin Sea had a nice fish on, cut the line and came to help.

You never think it will happen to you until it does. Someone once told me “never forget to duck and remember, it can all go to hell in a minute.”

Back at shore the casualty was drained and further inspection revealed that a work rag had clogged the bilge pump. A freakn work rag and unsealed access hatches.

My weekend shopping list: EPIRP, Sat phone, Manual Bilge Pump, New flares.

[FishNFreak68]

WOW!!!! What an experience. I am glad to hear of all the boats that came to your assistance. That really does speak wonders of those boats captains & crews!!!

[Capt Ted]

glad you guys are ok

[quack quack]

Glad your ok. It sounds like you did the best you could with what you had to work with

[RiskTaker]

Cogzwell:

Glad to see that you are back on Terra Firma, safe, if not soaking wet.

BTW - Thanks for the invite last night: it sounds like I missed out on quite an adventure !

Perhaps you are still on the adventure trip, even on land? Did Boat U.S. try to convince you to a slight Up-charge by claiming a salvage operation or were you able to keep it as simple assistance and a tow? I have heard of horror stories when there is water in the boat, even if they are floating upright or resting securely on the beach. When you think you have good coverage, suddenly you realize you're not covered good enough when you need it the most. Did you learn anything interesting about commercial assistance?

I liked the idea of that Manual bilge pump on your list. A very good idea! Have you also considered a submersible handheld VHF to go on the list. They come in handy all the time.

[cogzwell]

you got it. Salvage operation.

Basicly they pull up the same time as the roast gaurd and "inform" you that this is a salvage - not a tow - situation. You have a choice, go with CG and leave the boat to pirates, or sign a contract for salvage. What would you do?

They survey the boat and all contents to determine value and then stick you with 12-15% of value. My fishing eqipment alone is valued $12k. Thank god our cash was our pants prior to leaving the boat.

I will see over the next few weeks how much my insurance will cover and report back.

[quack quack]

That sucks all they had to do has give you a portable bilge pump and a batt to start your engine. They could follow you in to make sure it goes alright but 12 to 15% that is rape. Bend over and let them stick up a couple of 80 wides. :twisted: Why cant the coasties put a rope on the boat and tow it in.God dam 6 foot navy :twisted: Is it more work to tow in a 28ft piece of crap boat than a nice boat. Why is it based on value of boat! IT should be a flat rate based on the situation of the boat. I think the cost based on value is price gouging! If I pull into a gas station in a BMW should I pay more than the KIA next to me for gas! Is this not the same thing? :twisted:

[NSBsailsandtails]

Good to hear you are safe. Its good to know we are fishing around good people who are willing to help at a moments notice.

if you got any work done in your bilge by a marina i would notify them of what happened, or the rag couldve been in the bilge from the factory. i have found all kinds of stuff in the bilge of new boats from the factory like wrenchs, subway wrappers, etc.

my friend works for a boat manufacturer and there was a boat that was listing heavily to one side of the boat and no one could figure it out. finally they took the cap off the boat and found a length of rail road track foamed into the inside of the boat. they use the track to move stuff around the warehouse and they figured a maintence person picked a length up and put it into the boat to sweep the floor and forgot to take it out, the next day the foaming guy came and foamed it into the boat not noticing it.

[RiskTaker]

Holy Guacamole:

Wow! Is right! What would I do? .... uuuuhh... I am not sure? I would think not to be so anxious to abandon ship, with a salvage mode like that. I guess you saw some fins last night for sure. Even without a rock and a hard place it certainly seemed like you were stuck in one.

Whatever happened to the days that the Coast Guard or a commercial assistance vessel would simply hand you a gas powered water pump to get the water out. Were you that far under that the water could not be pumped out?

I recall one time being stranded out on Pickles Reef. I called the Coast Guard on the handheld VHF. They asked if we would accept commercial assistance. I said no, because I was a poor college student and had no tow insurance. I had already turned all different colors from trying to fix a starter with head down into the bilge in 2-4 seas. About 5-6 hours later the Coast Guard Auxillary came out to rescue us and offered us a tow home. (I suppose the bill is amortized into the bottom line of my 1040 Form.)
I am starting to think that having a gas powered water pump on the swordgrounds may not be such a bad idea. Anyone calling for help could own it at cost. Sounds like a practical way for fishermen to help fishermen without getting keel-hauled by commercial assistance.

But I suppose you need a steady diet of lucrative salvage opportunities to be able to afford a beautiful house on the point in Lighthouse point. (Not sure if it is the same owner/company, but you get the point.)

I am curious to know more about this predicament. I would like to be cautious not to bash the Commercial assistance towing/salvage guys, because they do indeed provide help when needed, which we need to be thankful for too. But it sounded like your situation was a pre-defined salvage operation. Do you concur that this situation was handled in the best way? Or should there have been an alternative solution, especially in hindsight.

[quack quack]

The tow boat was the pirate irat: Give me your money or else you sink and die arrrrrrrrrrggggghhhhh.

[Duke]

Glad to hear all worked out and will be of comfort to all out there that fellow fisherman will be there for you. Congrats and thanks to those to your aid!! I always carry a hand held GPS and VHF as well as a small Crash bag. Can't say enough about being there for each other as "what comes around goes around" and out there there isn't alot of room for error!!

[KQ]

RT- That sweet house on the point there by the Lighthouse Point Marina I think is owned by the Sea Tow guy. There is a lot of dough in that business.

And that comment about the if the handheld pump...It definitely would help being that gallons and gallons of water were coming in the boat almost faster than we could bail it out, however many exposed wires and the batteries were already wet and ruined I think. Even with a good battery which we had we still couldnt get the boat started.

I wanna get an inflatable raft that automatically deploys, but it needs to be big enough to support 4 avet 50's and 2 heavy tiagra 80's...

[CaptKen]

Originally Posted by cogzwell

My weekend shopping list: EPIRP, Sat phone, Manual Bilge Pump, New flares.

First of all Thank God everyone was alright and you are able to be here to talk about it.

Second I want to say up front this is not a bash of any kind but more of a lesson We can all learn from, One of the boats you menchoned was a buddy of mine that I grew up with Kerm on the Big Deal, The way He said your flares looked like a fizzled out bottle rocket. So maybe you might want to rethink the name brand of them or type.
Maybe you could tell Us what kind NOT to buy.
Thanks
Ken

[RiskTaker]

Just thinking out loud here...

So you sign a Salvage Agreement and let's assume you get the 15% salvage rate. (Perhaps the 10% rates are more appropriate for the big pricey Sportfishes)

I suppose a survey based upon actual replacement value would be the preferred model.


$US
12k - fishing tackle
40k - fishing vessel
Priceless - 2 dozen hypoxic tinkers in the baitwell
500 -150 lb. fresh swordfish (let's say hypothetically since you did not have one)

52.5k X .15 = $US 7875

Now I will assume that you did have offshore style tow insurance, which covers assistance and a tow back to dock. Is it true that this is now worth nothing to you because it is not a towing procedure but instead a "salvage operation" ?

So the tow boat man says pay me, $US 7875 before I am willing to release this boat to you, since they have a lien/salvage rights or whatever terms they pre-defined in their contract that they presented to you on their terms. (Well, I suppose you always have 3-days to cancel the contract if the terms are not to your satisfaction.)

Still talking out loud.... Now why was it that I bought this Unlimited Tow Boat Insurance? Oh, so that I am covered if I go offshore. Yeah yeah, that's the ticket. I feel so much better now.

Please share the details of this experience with us as it is settled. It sounds like you have at least $5k of expenses. And now you are hoping that your boat insurance will cover the real damages as well as the Commercial Assistance Up-Charge.

P.S. - Just be sure to tell your Insurance Adjuster that you would like fries with your Claim and if he could please Super-size it, since you still owe some Protection money.

[LiquidAddiction]

Cogzwell, glad we could help last night. You guys definately had a sense of urgency in your transmission when you came on the radio and said you were taking on water and had lost all power. The ABSOLUTE BEST thing you did was to inform everyone on the radio that you were about to shoot a flare before you did so. The flares didn't seem to be working properly and I can without question say that if we had not been specificaly looking for your flare we would never have seen it, and we were probably the closest boat to your location. Where both Tow Boats from the same company or where they two rival companies competing for the business? It looked like one was Tow Boat US and the other Offshore Marine Towing. It looked like they both came in "hot" trying to be the first one to you. Anyway, glad to here you guys made it back safe. Oh by the way, we had just boated the fish, although cutting one off to come to the rescue does make for a better story.

Chris

[CaptKen]

That is what my buddy Kerm said, If the flare had been 90 deg to the left or right and you had not known in advance to look, that you would't have been able to see it.

[hotreels]

We were the first ones on that scene last night - 24' Proline/Black and white hull. We were set up about 1/2 mile from you and heard the distress call on 72, you mentioned the flare and we looked and immediately saw it. We reeled up and got ready to go, then a sword took our bait, right at the boat. Since we have much more experience losing swords than landing them, we knew to let the line go slack and he would spit the hook, and we did just that.
We arrived first and immediately radioed your position, then called for help. SEATOW was non responsive. Boat US was available, we gave you a choice to wait for seatow or go with BoatUS. I knew BoatUS would be expensive, but I would have done the same thing, "whoever is available"

We are glad to help. Happy to have been so close and ale to respond.
My buddy (wxguy on F.S. Forum) and I (hotreelscoldbeer on F.S. Forum) have discussed your situation and this is what we came up with:
1. Handheld bilge pump
2. second VHF with spare antenna and clip leads to spare battery
(spare battery is in the bow storage)
3. higher quality flare gun w/parachute flares

We are glad you are safe and proud to be able to help.

Keep us posted.

[TowBoatUS Fort Lauderdale]

Gentlemen:

I read with great interest your comments about salvage and towing assistance. There has been a lot of publicity over the past year about unscrupulous salvors. I am proud to say I am not one of them. Let me explain the rules under which I operate.

Many boaters don’t know the difference between towing and salvage. Towing assistance, fuel deliveries, battery jumps and soft groundings are covered under membership programs such as the BoatU.S. Towing Program. Unlimited towing coverage will get you home if your boat suffers a mechanical failure but is otherwise sound. Your insurance policy will cover you if your boat is sinking or in some other peril. That is salvage.

U.S. Courts have defined salvage as a situation where there is marine peril, the services rendered were voluntary (no pre-existing obligation to assist exists) and success, in whole or in part, by the service rendered by the salvor. They go on to say "...it is not necessary that the danger be actual or imminent; it is sufficient if, at the time assistance was rendered, the vessel was stranded so that it was subject to the potential danger of damage or destruction." On the other hand, simple towage is defined as having taken place when a tow is called for or taken by a sound vessel as a mere means of saving time, or for considerations of convenience. The hallmark of towing is the absence of peril. I think we can all agree that a boat “taking on water, losing power, GPS inoperable”, unsure if their radio is transmitting in open ocean at night shooting flares is in danger and does not qualify as a towing situation.

How we get paid for salvage service is determined is based on a long standing US Supreme Court decision called Blackwell. Items such as the degree of danger from which the vessel was rescued; post-casualty value of the vessel saved; risk to the salvors crew and equipment; promptitude, skill and energy displayed in rendering the service and others are addressed.

Someone asked why we don’t just charge by the type of job rather than the value of the boat. Let me try to explain. We buy and maintain all of the equipment necessary to respond and successfully save vessels of all sizes. We operate 24 hours a day, 7 days a week which includes captains on duty and dispatchers on the radios and telephones. Put in simpler terms our equipment is like that of a fire department which might spend most of its time waiting in the garage for a call, but when it’s called, it could be a life or death situation and it must be ready to respond to all sizes and types of emergencies. It’s not like a taxi cab, charging by the mile and in use regularly picking up passengers and driving normal routes. We must make a substantial investment to assure we have the equipment and crew ready. The Coast Guard is in the business of rescuing life, not property. Boat owners and their insurers rely on professional salvors to be there whenever they need help. Payment based on what we save as defined in Blackwell is what gives professional salvors the incentive to stay in this business and the funds to properly equip and man their operations.

This is not a lucrative business. Our insurance costs, fuel costs and payroll are huge and our towing rates are controlled by the market and our licensing agreement with BoatU.S. We do this because we enjoy the adventure and helping people, and if we make a few dollars doing it, it keeps us around a little longer. By the way, I know who owns the house on the point in Lighthouse Point. It belongs to my dad. If I had his money, I’d be on an island somewhere.

I hope this clarifies some of the misconceptions of what I do. Protect yourselves from unscrupulous salvors by knowing who to call before something happens and having the proper insurance to cover your situation when it’s over.

[RiskTaker]

Tow Boat US Ft. L:

I continue to read and write with great interest too.

Thank you very much for responding on this forum thread. Your clarification on how the business is operated and how the "rules of engagement" apply by the legitimate tow/salvage operators is greatly appreciated. I was very eager to have a better understanding of how things get done because I have seen/heard of many varying situations, not all of which seem like they were reasonable and fair solutions (and by no means implicating your company). But I wish for you, continued rescue opportunities to allow you to stay in business for many years to come, perhaps for as long as boats are still displacing water on our coastlines. I for one, certainly appreciate that you are there. Maybe, I just assumed that the supplemental coverage I have, beyond boat liability policy, was just a little bit more robust, when a call for help is made. (I hope that everyone else that is not fully aware of their SAFETY/Rescue plan, gets a good handle on the way it is, too.)

Perhaps some of the details of my posts have called your attention and actively motivated, a well composed response, or perhaps you just wanted to. I certainly do not mean to be overly critical of the services you and/or any legitimate Towing/Salvage operator provide. But I am a common sense man and will say it the way I see it...

And I do raise questions, when a seemingly simple solution, manifests into a salvage operation. Without a doubt, any practical Captain will call for assistance when self-help remedies are not sufficient to safely get back underway.

What is really calling my attention... is the sharp divide between tow and salvage modes. For this situation, (IMO), simply enabling the removal of water, by supplying a spare bilge pump, or a higher volume pump, gas powered or whatever is readily available, would have been the solution, plain and simple, and a tow back to port after that would have been sufficient to do the job.

So the final bill for assistance is _________ ? Was the compensation appropriate for the situation? A milk run, or an appropriate day's call?

Obviously there are always two sides to the story: one the need for the assistance and two, the offering of assistance. A far disparity between the two will always invite controversy. Let's see how the chips fall as more comments come in.

Is there any type of Salvage coverage insurance offered by the supplemental tow companies?

[TowBoatUS Fort Lauderdale]

Thank you for continuing to ask questions. I encourage questions about my business. I have nothing to hide and strongly believe that an educated consumer is my best customer. If I may, I’d like to delve into more of how we determine what to charge for salvage.

The first question we ask is what did we save? That goes to the post-casualty value of the boat. If a boat is valued at $100,000 and our skill, promptitude and equipment saved it from total destruction; we saved $100,000 (or whatever the amount is less the damage that caused the need for our service). Paying us a reasonable percentage of that amount is much less than paying for the total loss of the property, $100,000, plus the cost to remove the wreckage.

The next question we ask is how much risk was involved to the vessel we are saving and our own equipment and crew? Salvage awards are based on more than just what we saved (remember Blackwall lists a number of factors). Some jobs are more risky than others and those more risky jobs come at a premium. The risk is one of the factors that moves the percentage of the value up or down. Obviously a boat on rocks at night in crashing seas with divers in the water has a greater risk to everyone and all equipment and will call for a higher percentage of the saved value. A boat sinking in the ICW on a calm sunny day will be billed at a lower percentage. It’s all a very reasonable, well thought out process. The last question we ask ourselves before submitting a bill for salvage is can we justify the charge? We don’t throw darts at the numbers; we are confident that based on experience and our efforts, we can support our payment demand.

Yes, there is a sharp divide between towing and salvage. It may help to always keep in mind salvage has peril, albeit sometimes minimal, while towing is the absence of peril. Even towing a boat after putting a pump on it has some peril attached to it; the vessel was sinking and while the pump dewatered it and the patch is holding the water from coming in, the pump may fail and the patch may wash out.

We work closely with many insurance companies and marine surveyors and adjustors. They know our reputation as we do theirs. That brings me to an important issue relating to preparation. Just as I suggested in my last posting that you know your salvor before you need him, understand your insurance policy before you need it. Unfortunately, no, there is no supplemental salvage option to purchase like you do a towing plan. You have to depend on your insurance policy for that protection. Companies such as CHUBB, ACE, St. Paul, Zurich and BoatU.S. have policies that fully cover your vessel for salvage operations allowing for payment up to the agreed hull value for salvage regardless of what they pay on the hull damage. It is my experience that these policies also do not apply a deductible to the salvage payment. Not all companies write these types of policies. The old “you get what you pay for” holds very true in the realm of insurance. A cheaper policy will most likely leave you paying for part of the salvage, your deductible and even some of the repair costs.

You may want to review your towing program as well. If you are a BoatU.S. unlimited towing member and you breakdown in Chub Cay, Walkers, or Bimini, my company, TowBoatU.S. Ft. Lauderdale, will tow you home for the cost of our customs fees, $600. (Commercial fees are much higher than recreational fees and we have to have a bond to allow us to operate internationally. BoatU.S. towing doesn’t cover those fees; they pay for the cost of towing.) Of course if you’re anywhere in between, we’ll come and get you and bring you home at no charge, too. You are a priority to us. Other towing providers look at their members as a liability. They don’t get paid every time they respond to a member’s request for a tow. While they are obligated to come and get you, you may have to wait awhile.

By the way, TowBoatU.S. Ft. Lauderdale is Offshore Marine Towing. We have been a BoatU.S. provider since 1989. I recently painted my blue boats red to take advantage of the national brand name. While the color has changed, the service remains the same, dependable and professional.