It can all go bad in a minute...

[ketepica]

great topic, and in much need of any and all information. In my opinion all information is useful, from both sides towing companys and the person in need of assistance.
Thanks to BoatUS for all its voluntary input.
Allow me to briefly share my experince in the matter. Very similar to the one described by Randy, my boat broke down about 2. 5 miles from the port, and was taking in water( slowly, but never the less is taking in water) called the tow company to which i was a member of and within 10 minutes they were on site. Needless to say all on board including myself expressed a huge sign of releif. the captain of the tow co. had me sign a salvage agreement on the spot. Now, in the moment of panic, confusinig and fear for all those on board that being the captain you not only feel, but are responsible for i signed it right away, and lets get to work, and get everyonea and the boat back to the dock safe. Long story short, $9,000 later on salvage fees and 6 month of fighting with the insurance company to cover it (which they did at the end but, a good chunk of it went to the lawyer).

As other mentioned before, make sure you have the best insurance possible and understand the salvage coverage in it (make sure you have it)
Information is the key and the more you know about salvage law, and boat in distress/emergency situations the better prepare you'll be if the situation arises (which i really hope it never does).

Questions:
BOAT US:
what if the captain refuses to sign any agreement?

"The hallmark of towing is the absence of peril." Is drifting away in the middle of the ocean not taking in water (the boat simply won't start), consider peril?

Does salvage laws apply to any boat providing assistance? can anyone out there (and I hope no one thinks this way) claim salvage for providing assistance (that one boat that tossed "that" rope or helped pump the water out, or towed the boat as the good samaritan)?

From my experience, if it ever happen to me again, like someone else already said "hide the water"... and be very carful on the choices of words used to call for help. BUT, depending on the situation SAFTY to all those onboard FIRST. Equiptmnet, boats, $ is can be replaced.

[RiskTaker]

Ketepica:

Yes indeed, this has been one of my favorite forum topics so far this year. Perhaps I should be take careful notes on this subject matter and journal it.. For me I have a few take aways from these posts.

- I have a better understanding of the salvage and tow situation now. Seems like the absense of peril is a key assessment. Having the ability to keep bilge water in control (without hull damage), in my opinion, seems to be an important factor. So on that thought..

- I used to think that a bucket would be sufficient as an auxillary bailer. Well I still do think it is important to have, but that is not enough. I think that I will make it a point to have a permanently installed manual pump on every boat I own that has limited access to the bilge. This is the type of pump that has a hose and screen down in the bottom of the bilge and you have a handle bar that you move up and down on a pump mounted somewhere near pilot's access. (Remember, even if you have to open some hatch to access the bilge, would you take on water even faster if you were half filled and then opened that lid?)

- Seems like a high water alarm could be a consideration. I can't say that I manually inspect the bilge a a regiment. Perhaps a good habit to develop.

- To prevent water from washing in on the stern and to avoid capsizing in rough seas, a quality sea anchor seems to be important for any boat stepping outside an inlet. Imagine the position of your vessel if you cannot get underway.

- Love those 25mm flares: they can launch the parachute type flare. And with a 12 guage adapter, you can still shoot 12 ga., if that is all that is available, left over.

- a hand held VHF that operates on self contained battery is a great backup. (Works great in the islands too, as your phone away from the boat.)
--------------
Of course, the main boat equipment would have multiple batteries and banks. Batteries should be up high/or at least one. Not always practical on all boat layouts. (I saw a new Everglades boat recently, all 4 batteries were above deck and easy access, nice.)

Multiple bilge pumps with independent circuit breakers and battery sources.

I may not be able to get underway, but if I can call for help and keep the bilge dry and avoid capsizing, I think that the unlimited Tow insurance may properly entitle me to a tow home, without any surprising up-charges. :shock:

This may not be for everyone. So just carry on the way you like. The Tow companies need a few salvage calls from time to time to help keep their equipment in good working order.

[ketepica]

great list RiskTaker.
The goal is to educate others in the subject so that hopefully they are not ever in this situation. Accidents do happen, and at some point you'll break down at sea, being prepare and ready is key. On the other hand, i do think that tow co's should be entitle to a salvage fee, if there is "truely peril" in any given situation, and not by a definition that is left to interpretaion in court. be safe

[cogzwell]

Just to let everyone know, I finnaly received a check from Sea Safe / Ski Safe Insurance in the amount of $5,360. total out of pocket for this including repairs was about $1500.

Live large, live good and be good because it can all go to hell in a minute!

[cogzwell]

look out for the storms after dark.... they come up fast>>>>>>>>>>>>

[Country Boys]

You forgot to add Handheld VHF and GPS.
2 must haves.

[Beerman]

You are lucky it wasnt one of those nights when the Yahoos are on the radio and you cant even transmit due to dirty jokes and rude behavior. Hence why that behavior needs to stop!!

Glad everyone is ok and boats came to the rescue

[DonK]

general knowlege reading:

Salvage and treasure salvage

When property is lost at sea and rescued by another, the rescuer is entitled to claim a salvage award on the salved property. There is no "life salvage." All mariners have a duty to save the lives of others in peril without expectation of reward. Consequently salvage law applies only to the saving of property.
There are two types of salvage: contract salvage and pure salvage, which is sometimes referred to as "merit salvage." In contract salvage the owner of the property and salvor enter into a salvage contract prior to the commencement of salvage operations and the amount that the salvor is paid is determined by the contract. The most common salvage contract is called a "Lloyds Open Form Salvage Contract."
In pure salvage, there is no contract between the owner of the goods and the salvor. The relationship is one which is implied by law. The salvor of property under pure salvage must bring his claim for salvage in federal court, which will award salvage based upon the "merit" of the service and the value of the salvaged property.
Pure salvage claims are divided into "high-order" and "low-order" salvage. In high-order salvage, the salvor exposes himself and his crew to the risk of injury and loss or damage to his equipment in order to salvage the damaged ship. Examples of high-order salvage are boarding a sinking ship in heavy weather, boarding a ship which is on fire, raising a ship or boat which has already sunk, or towing a ship which is in the surf away from the shore. Low-order salvage occurs where the salvor is exposed to little or no personal risk. Examples of low-order salvage include towing another vessel in calm seas, supplying a vessel with fuel, or pulling a vessel off a sand bar. Salvors performing high order salvage receive substantially greater salvage award than those performing low order salvage.
In both high- and low-order salvage the amount of the salvage award is based first upon the value of the property saved. If nothing is saved, or if additional damages is done, there will be no award. The other factors to be considered are the skills of the salvor, the peril to which the salvaged property was exposed, the value of the property which was risked in effecting the salvage, the amount of time and money expended in the salvage operation etc.
A pure or merit salvage award will seldom exceed 50 percent of the value of the property salved. The exception to that rule is in the case of treasure salvage. Because sunken treasure has generally been lost for hundreds of years, while the original owner (or insurer, if the vessel was insured) continues to have an interest in it, the salvor or finder will generally get the majority of the value of the property. While sunken ships from the Spanish Main (such as Nuestra Señora de Atocha in the Florida Keys) are the most commonly thought of type of treasure salvage, other types of ships including German submarines from World War II which can hold valuable historical artifacts, American Civil War ships (the USS Maple Leaf in the St. Johns River, and the USS Monitor in Chesapeake Bay), and sunken merchant ships (the SS Central America off Cape Hatteras) have all been the subject of treasure salvage awards. Due to refinements in side-scanning sonars, many ships which were previously missing are now being located and treasure salvage is now a less risky endeavor than it was in the past, although it is still highly speculative.

[Sopla2o]

FINALLY.... The threads are back to informative and instructional.... Excellent topic, excellent posts...

[Flyin By]

Hats off to Boat US. Had to use them twice in my life of my old boat. Once blew a motor ad once lower unit issues. Showed up asap did not realy ask what was up just are you ok. We hook up and begin our tow home which was like 25 miles. We asked him if we could troll for a while ( joking around) and he what ever. Ok, 15 min later rod goes off. We put a nice dolphin in the boat. we get to the dock and completed the paperwork and gave him the fish. Real nice guy. Oh, bill came in the mail with a "0" balance. Hats off...

[WhItEoUt 23]

Glad you guys made it back ok

[Sea-Rod]

congrats and great going by all who came to help . it's good to know there's still some good people around.

[bajakian]

Tow Boat US- If I understand you correctly, the time when a boater most needs your assistance, he is not insured under your towing insurance and has no leverage in negotiating. The times where he is insured are when he and the vessel are in no imminent danger and he has time to explore his options and thus has some leverage in negotiating with various towing operations. If that is the case, then having "towing insurance" doesnt seem like such great insurance. Why does my cynical mind think that if I was in the Bahamas awaiting a tow and you had the opportunity to do a more lucrative salvage job, that I would sit there waiting till you got to me. And what happens if you have towing insurance and are being towed back from the Bahamas and the weather turns bad? Does a safe and routine tow then become a salvage operation?

[bajakian]

Cogzwell- Glad you survived the ordeal. Way to keep your head in trying times.

[CJDcatch22]

whoa? whoa. whoooaaaa!

[cogzwell]

i am now back at the computer with a 300 lbr in the box....no more night time for me.... this was good.

[BrassyHooker]

Originally Posted by RiskTaker

Cogzwell:

Glad to see that you are back on Terra Firma, safe, if not soaking wet.

BTW - Thanks for the invite last night: it sounds like I missed out on quite an adventure !

Perhaps you are still on the adventure trip, even on land? Did Boat U.S. try to convince you to a slight Up-charge by claiming a salvage operation or were you able to keep it as simple assistance and a tow? I have heard of horror stories when there is water in the boat, even if they are floating upright or resting securely on the beach. When you think you have good coverage, suddenly you realize you're not covered good enough when you need it the most. Did you learn anything interesting about commercial assistance?

I liked the idea of that Manual bilge pump on your list. A very good idea! Have you also considered a submersible handheld VHF to go on the list. They come in handy all the time.

Its Federal law that they can claim salvage if the boat is not seaworthy, been provin ten times over.. I know it sucks....

What kind of batteries do you have? Just wondering where it shorted 1st..

What are your thoughts? Not tryin to be an Ass just want to know when and where you lost all electronics..

[BrassyHooker]

Originally Posted by Sopla2o

FINALLY.... The threads are back to informative and instructional.... Excellent topic, excellent posts...

Sorry I thread jumped and didn't read the rest.. So all that writing, where are we at now?