It can all go bad in a minute...

[RiskTaker]

Tow boat US Ft. L:

Thanks again. You may possibly be growing your business opportunities as you write this to explain your business and your Code of conduct. It is decent of you to take the time to explain it.

SFC is such a great site to become better informed about so many aspects of offshore fishing, and not just the catching part.

Next question to everyone going offshore. Who goes in the ocean without a quality sea anchor or drogue, on the boat? It could make make the difference between a tow home and a salvage casualty. Either way you may have a clearer idea of who you need to call if you need help.

[CaptKen]

Nice Topic

[dpdash]

I can say that over the years I have had the occasion to use both Offshore Marine Towing (my primary tow company) and SeaTow in S. Florida. OMT is hands down the most professional, courteous and fair marine towing company I have ever dealt with. They do a tremendous job and will be my choice for the forseable future. That being said, most of the bad feelings regarding salvage come from people who do not understand how it works. Your insurance policy is your best friend when it comes to salvage, make sure you know what you have.

[edk]

Originally Posted by TowBoatUS Fort Lauderdale

You may want to review your towing program as well. If you are a BoatU.S. unlimited towing member and you breakdown in Chub Cay, Walkers, or Bimini, my company, TowBoatU.S. Ft. Lauderdale, will tow you home for the cost of our customs fees, $600. (Commercial fees are much higher than recreational fees and we have to have a bond to allow us to operate internationally. BoatU.S. towing doesn�t cover those fees; they pay for the cost of towing.) Of course if you�re anywhere in between, we�ll come and get you and bring you home at no charge, too. You are a priority to us. Other towing providers look at their members as a liability. They don�t get paid every time they respond to a member�s request for a tow. While they are obligated to come and get you, you may have to wait awhile.

By the way, TowBoatU.S. Ft. Lauderdale is Offshore Marine Towing. We have been a BoatU.S. provider since 1989. I recently painted my blue boats red to take advantage of the national brand name. While the color has changed, the service remains the same, dependable and professional.

It is important to review your towing policy. This part of the BOAT U.S. policy is important if you ever need to be towed back from the Bahamas.

Originally Posted by BOAT U.S. agreement

A restricted use dock is one from which you are required to move immediately, i.e. fuel or restaurant docks and docks without overnight facilities. Thirty days following the initiation of a Membership or an upgraded higher towing service level on an existing Membership, BoatU.S. Towing Service is expanded to include up to 1/2 of the cost to tow your disabled boat from an unrestricted use dock or mooring, i.e. home docks or marinas, for the purpose of making engine repairs. Member must be onboard the disabled vessel during all tows originating from a dock or mooring.

If you are disabled in the Bahamas and need BOAT U.S. to come and get you they may only cover 50% of the tow if you are staying at a marina. I argued this with them a couple of years ago when a friend was disabled and called Towboat US to see if they could bring him back. They said that they would only cover 50% and they couldn't guarantee when they would be there. (as the member must be on the boat for the tow that makes a difference). We managed to get his boat back under its own power, but it was not without risk. I argued the point with BOAT U.S. when we got back, as we did not have reserved dock space at the marina after the day we left so it was essentially a "restricted" dock. Although the person I spoke to agreed that I had a valid argument they did not give me any confidence that we would be treated differently if it happened again some time in the future. My advice is that if you break down in the Bahamas, do it at a restaurant or fuel dock :lol: . Perhaps "TowBoatUS Fort Lauderdale" can shed some light on the official policy.

I don't have a beef with Towboat US - I have used them in the past and been happy with their service.

Ed

[Randy]

A little first hand knowledge. Been there done that. Scenario.. Im at Everglades outer bouy when the engine stops. I open the engine cowling and see water up to the crank damper which has thrown water on the distributor cap. I run up front and shut the livewell valve off (anything through the hull has a shutoff valve) water is stopped. Engine wont start but im just outside the port so I call SeaTow. Seatow comes out within minutes , I explain water in bilge killed engine i need a tow to 15 st ramp .2.5 miles ? He says ut oh , water in hull SALVAGE ! I ask what that means he says you pay. Theres no danger , im right outside the port , I say forget it , crank up the bilge , take the distributor cap off and dry it , replace it and start her up. 10 YEARS paying for insurance needing it only once years ago (broken steering cable)and I cant get towed in from the whistle bouy without PAYING SALVAGE! I do know that Seatow is a Dedicated tow company where Boat US is a INSURANCE company using subs and SeaTow tows from the Bahamas back with no charge. (See my Buds 31' when both those 250 yamas wouldnt start last year) Grand Bahama to Hillsborough 14 hour tow 0 bucks SeaTow!
Personally I use SeaTow, Ive had both and I changed when the tower had to CALL for PERMISSION from BUS before towing me. Seatow asks for my card and off we go. I would just say "The engine wont start" unless you think your gonna go down ! Been there done that. Randy

[njoimia]

Not to hate, but Seatow all the way here......

[JahMussa]

TowBoatUS Fort Lauderdale - Larry?

I left you a message at work and if you could please call me that would be great. I understand you might be out of town for a few weeks but please call as soon as you can.

Thanks,
-Tek
561.654.7873

[TowBoatUS Fort Lauderdale]

Thanks for all of the comments. Many of you brought up some interesting situations. I can only tell you how my company operates. It has been our experience that BoatU.S. does not enforce the 50% rule when being towed back from the Bahamas (at least not recently) and the insurance claim scenario was one with which I’m not familiar. We are at the TowBoatU.S. Conference right now and will ask the appropriate representatives when we see them tomorrow how to respond to your comments.

Regarding our service, if you are a BoatU.S. member with your membership card in hand when we arrive on scene, we will accept that card as payment up to the limit of your towing coverage without the need to call BoatU.S. If you don’t have it with you, please understand that we must call to obtain verification that your membership is in good standing so we can get paid directly by BoatU.S. Otherwise, we would have to charge you.

We’ve been working with BoatU.S. for a long time and understand their towing policy quite well. If you call us for a tow and explain a situation to us that may or may not be covered (you’re at a dock but the boat can’t be fixed there and the repair facility wasn’t open yesterday for example), we will call BoatU.S. to get authorization for full payment for the tow before performing the service. Our goal is to provide you the best service at no out of pocket cost to you. Please bear with us if we have to make a call in order to achieve that goal.

As far as Bahamas and any charges incurred if you are a BoatU.S. member, TowBoatU.S. Ft. Lauderdale has agreed to an extended service area. Not all TowBoatU.S. companies have this extended area which may result in towing charges to you. Call us and with an unlimited card, there will be no towing charge. (I can’t waive the customs fees. It is illegal for a commercial company to operate internationally without paying these fees and having either a bond or paying an agent to clear them.)

Thanks again for your continued interest. I will get back to you once I have some answers from BoatU.S.

Tek- I left you a voice mail including my cell number.

[Tom L]

Good topic from TowBoatUS Ft. Laud, but maybe he could discuss the "what if" scenario that would have played out if one of the boats that came to assist had secured a line onto the disabled boat and began to tow while the owners made a decision.....there might have been some "negotiating" on the 50 line.

There is a reason why the private towing companies invest heavily in very fast RIBs that can get to the scene before the competing tower....and then there's a reason why the vessels standing by are often "instructed" by SeaTow or TOwBoatUS to NOT toss a line......

If I am involved in such a scenarion, I would offer up the suggestion that by getting YOUR line on the boat you could save the owner a lot of $$$...

[Threesenough]

One thing I learned is to be careful of the language you use when talking to the tow company. Have a friend who was about half way out to the fifty line when he had an electrical short on the outboard. It had the appearance of a small electrical fire, but no fire was involved. In the conversation with the tow company that he was a member with the word engine fire came up and instantly it went from being a simple mechanical failure and a tow home ( no one was in peril) to a salvage due to an engine fire. The captain of the tow vessel was great as he was dealing with the dispatch convincing them that it was just a simple tow job and not a salvage. In the end he was towed back to P.E. at no additional charge. Taught me a valuable lesson about what to say and what not to say.

[BrassyHooker]

As you can see my post scores I am a lurker.. But I have something to add to this I feel is important.. I lost my motor on a 18' center console (water in fuel) with big swells on the beach.. To make a long story short, for Sea Tow to get me off the beach they wanted $1800 upfront over the phone (surf or beach not included in membership) before they would respond.. Well I just lost my wallet and cell phone in the ocean (boat rolled 3 times) and in the moment of whats goin on I told them to pound sand.. Well my boat ended up pounding sand for 12hrs totaling it.. It was takin off the beach with a backhoe..

All I needed was '400 feet of line to get it out to safe water..

On a lighter side if I hadn't totaled that one, then got the 20' CC that I sold.. I wouldn't be getting the 28 Whitewater (delivered in April/reason for lurking).. So it all worked out

Glad you guys made it and I commend Tow Boat for piping in..

[quack quack]

I saw a small boat around 25ft at a marina were I has working on another boat start to get swamped on the sea wall. I tied it up tight found a large pump from some guys working on a nearby pool. Climbed into the boat started the pump and saved the boat. by now a crowed of about 20 people was now around. I climbed back up on the sea wall thinking myself a hero. That is when I got some advice I will never forget. The man said[DO YOU SEE THAT 55 OCEAN YACHT OVER THERE IF YOU SEE IT SINKING LET IT SINK AND I WILL CALL THE INSURANCE COMPANY AND TELL THEM TO GET THERE BOAT OUT OF MY SLIP] The owner of the boat I saved soon showed up in the crowd and did not even thank me. I guess he had to work harder to try and sink his own boat Bad karma for him good for me

[RiskTaker]

Originally Posted by Tom L

Good topic from TowBoatUS Ft. Laud, but maybe he could discuss the "what if" scenario that would have played out if one of the boats that came to assist had secured a line onto the disabled boat and began to tow while the owners made a decision.....there might have been some "negotiating" on the 50 line. .... ..and then there's a reason why the vessels standing by are often "instructed" by SeaTow or TOwBoatUS to NOT toss a line....

Tom L:

I am not laying out all of my "commercial tow boat experience" cards on the table at one time but I suspect that you would get a response that would shed light in favor of the commercial assistance if answered by a person in the commercial assistance business. ie. all of the good and none of the bad.

In the same way several fishing vessels came to the immediate assistance of someone in need, so to would it be natural to throw a line to offer further assistance. What good is it to get to the scene and offer nothing further than a radio relay, or to climb aboard if the vessel should capsize or something unsinkable happen? And that further assistance could be to stabilize the situation or possibly involve a tow all the way home or to some safer harbor.

I am not a lawyer, but I have heard that the "Good Samaritan" laws generally protect people's good intentions from liable fault, in the event something goes wrong, where the "Good Samaritan" does something goofy, within reason. Contrary, to this statement, I have heard of one "Good Samaritan" sitution where a boat was being pulled off of the rocks, things went wrong, and people got hurt. To my surprise the endangered vessel filed suit and somehow successfully sued for damages by the vessel providing aid. ( Go figure that one. If those things can stand up in court and take precedence over "Good Samaritan" then "Houston, we have a problem here." ) This was a second hand story so I was not privvy to first hand knowledge. So take it with a grain of salt just like the other stories you hear. But that being said.... if true.....then..

In that case, a commercial assistance boat captain may advise you that you may have increased liability by actively trying to help. But I would check around first for a little more before I would be fully convinced. For one, it goes against the general precedence of "Good Samaritan".

For me, what would I do? Anything short of clear and present physical endangerment to my vessel/crew or the stranded vessel/crew, I would provide immediate help as requested ! Unless, otherwise better educated from this forum thread, or anywhere else for that matter, I would have thrown a line, without any hesitation. Perhaps, I may learn that is not the best thing to do. (Does it matter which direction the line come from?) If so, please, somebody make me plainly aware of it.

This boat (Tranqulizer from the start of this forum post), I will bet, was taking on excessive water, because it was stern to the waves, in characteristic swordfishing fashion for an open-fish, for lack of a sea anchor being tight off the bow. A line toss assist would have stabilized the boat to enable the water to be removed, by buckets, manual bilge or whatever additional pumping means were available to a manageable and "not in peril" situation. At that point, would a regular tow be in order. Or is it still in peril because the batteries won't start the boat?

That is why I rasied the question about the disparity between peril (salvage) and tow (for convenience to get home), to begin with. It seems very reasonable to me that a "Good Samaritan" providing a spare bilge pump and battery power and setting the sea anchor would have transformed the outcome of this example situation into a non-peril sitiuation. Certainly, with unmanaged water coming in, I would have to agree that the sitation was perilous.

It certainly seems like we are learning some good lessons here.

The boat owners need to be ever vigilent for SAFETY: I think we can all come up with an improved list of must have equipment, and don't forget the sea anchor. As well as becoming a little bit more savvy at deterring these seemingly perilous situations. We have seen several examples here. And each one of those you could make some hindsite recommendations on what to do better: 1- to be more safe, 2 - eliminate/"carefully articulate" the propensity toward peril.

The definition for peril can fit many boating mal-situations, and certainly it seems like commercial assistance would prefer that definition to be used because there is a significant $$$ delta between a tow home and a salvage recovery. What would you do if you were collecting money for your services? Use peril to your advantage if it looks like the definition could apply. Claro Que Si! Of course you would!

I have seen multiple situatons where a salvage situation is plainly evident. And unfortunately, I have seen at least a half dozen situations in my life where "peril" was applied to justify a salvage operation where just a slight recomposure would have plainly changed that judgment call.

So if you want to save a boat load of money on your boat insurance... get Geico Insurance, no just kididng. But seriously, you as a captain must learn to distinguish for yourself between the two conditions and know what to do to fit the description. Perhaps you prefer for your vessel to be salvaged and not towed. :shock:

[LiquidAddiction]

I offered tranquilizer my sea anchor while we were sitting next to them and they said they didn't want it.

[RiskTaker]

Good Job LiquidAddiction:

Actively offering to help, in my opinion, is the best behavior to have.

Thank you sir, for that. I certainly hope that I could do the same for you some day or that somebody like you comes to my rescue whenever the need may be.

Good Energy abounds....

[TowBoatUS Fort Lauderdale]

As promised, we talked to BoatU.S. about the dock to dock issues when broken down in the Bahamas. They said that in the past there were cases where the member had to pay 50% of the cost to tow their boat home. That policy has changed. They now consider all docks in the Bahamas as restricted (temporary) use and do not enforce a 50% payment from the member. Do remember what I posted earlier about the customs fees...You may want to review your towing program as well. If you are a BoatU.S. unlimited towing member and you breakdown in Chub Cay, Walkers, or Bimini, my company, TowBoatU.S. Ft. Lauderdale, will tow you home for the cost of our customs fees, $600. (Commercial fees are much higher than recreational fees and we have to have a bond to allow us to operate internationally. BoatU.S. towing doesn’t cover those fees; they pay for the cost of towing.) Of course if you’re anywhere in between, we’ll come and get you and bring you home at no charge, too. I am confident that this is the best deal in the commercial assistance industry

The claims issue was more complicated. We were told that without reviewing the policy provisions and the actual claim, they could not comment on the situation as presented. They are happy to do so with the person who feels their claim was not handled as it should have been. You may want to contact the claims department at BoatU.S. directly for specific answers to the claims handling of your case. For general questions about what is covered under the BoatU.S. policy, contact the underwriting department. Call underwriting to find out what your policy covers or does not cover.

[cogzwell]

Total bill from Tow Boat US = $5,460.........

[quack quack]

If the boat was a total loss the insurance would have paid that then cut you a check for the boat .Is the ins going to pay tow bill?

[fernandez1178]

Very interesting topic... I hope that everyone stays safe and from what I am understanding, unless you want a new boat and have a great insurance company...dont look like your are sinking when they come to get you...hide the water :lol:

[reeltherapy]

First, I'm sure thankful you guys are ok! On the other hand, I guess I need to hire a lawyer to interpet my TowboatUS policy (that lawyers have probably written) to me in layman's terms. When I bought my first policy, I thought I questioned the folks at Sebastion throughly as to how I would be covered in any senario I might find myself in from the river to the middle of the stream. "You call and we're comin' to get you within 50 mile's out".

Nothing was said about a difference to be determined between convience and peril. With my old boat, I broke down in the river and towboat us came and towed us to the dock. I'm still thankful for the tow and was the best 119.00 I'd spent in a long time. However, This thread has been eye-opening for me.

Got rid of the hole in the water a now have a good dependable 25' Proline. But, what if I'm 25 Miles out in the middle of the stream, the engine conks and west winds are taking me farther east and drifting north. I'm not taking on water but the boys could still say I'm in peril. That would be true, if left to drift. However, a simple tow is all I need and that does not justify a $5k bill. That is not salvage, that is a tow, and for which I've paid with "UNLIMITED" towing.

So, time goes by, a man's word is no longer his bond. Lawyers get in the mix, write the loopholes and fine print for insurance companies. A man comes walking down the beach. Happens upon a guy who has buried 50 lawyers up to the neck in the sand. He asks him "what have you got here"? He responds "NOT ENOUGH SAND"!

It's hard to legislate right doing.