11/20 PE; The night of the rats

[OBAMA]

Wicked Wayne and his little hottie were in town from the frigid north
and with Cyndi, we went out of PE in search of the elusive swordfish.
Nice night, good northward drift of 2.5+ knts around the 49 line. We
caught two rats, 40" and 42", just south and a few miles north of the port
on squid at 75' to 100' depth. Great night except for two @$$hole buoy
fisherman.

This buoy goes through my spread and tangles up 3 lines. I get this mess
undone, I let the buoy go with care, and I get my spread back out.
All of sudden a boat comes screaming through my spread and
I'm screaming at these guys to turn as my lines are screaming off the reels.
He turns around and he's right next to me. I explain to him what happened,
he accuses me of messing with his buoy and tells me to bite it. He
leaves me a mongolian cluster-f^*# to untangle for over an hr. I lost my
temper on the radio with him. His spread was right in the middle of the
alley and closely-packed. Boats and buoys do not drift the same and I
could not get my 5 lines out of the water to get out of the buoy's way in
time. I'm not that happy that he intentionally ripped through my spread
and shot his mouth off after I was nice to him and to his buoy.

Otherwise, a great night with good people. Both fish were tagged with
plastic tags and released. One of the fish was in excellent condition when
we released it because it was hooked in the dorsal fin and we never took
it out of the water. cheers, O

[Uncle Buck]

Arthur... we heard the VHF side of your issues. Y-Knot, right?

Yeah... buoys were thick last night. No less than 5 sets all around us. I personally don't mind the gear when it's fished respectfully. We do our part to avoid 'em if they're already in the water... but... We headed to numbers we planned to start at. Saw another boat drifting nearby, so we kept our distance. (we didn't known if it was rec or com at that point) Started sending our baits out at sunset, and the other boat buzzed within 100ft of us... stopped less than an 1/8th mile to our NE (measured on radar), and set buoys across our bow to the west like a fence. Cap wanted to pick up and run 'em over... but I convinced him that it would be the gear guy's fault if we tangled... and we may end up with a few extra LPs by the end of the night.

Luckily, the winds and currents kept us and the gear drifting basically the same, as we had no issues with the buoys. No fish either... but that's how it is when I'm on the water.

[bajakian]

Arthur-Nie to hear that you got out and got tight even if they were rats. Sorry to hear about the bouy guy problems-do you happen to know the guy or the name of his boat?

[Disco Lady]

Originally Posted by OBAMA

Wicked Wayne and his little hottie were in town from the frigid north
and with Cyndi, we went out of PE in search of the elusive swordfish.
Nice night, good northward drift of 2.5+ knts around the 49 line. We
caught two rats, 40" and 42", just south and a few miles north of the port
on squid at 75' to 100' depth. Great night except for two @$$hole buoy
fisherman.

This buoy goes through my spread and tangles up 3 lines. I get this mess
undone, I let the buoy go with care, and I get my spread back out.
All of sudden a boat comes screaming through my spread and
I'm screaming at these guys to turn as my lines are screaming off the reels.
He turns around and he's right next to me. I explain to him what happened,
he accuses me of messing with his buoy and tells me to bite it. He
leaves me a mongolian cluster-f^*# to untangle for over an hr. I lost my
temper on the radio with him. His spread was right in the middle of the
alley and closely-packed. Boats and buoys do not drift the same and I
could not get my 5 lines out of the water to get out of the buoy's way in
time. I'm not that happy that he intentionally ripped through my spread
and shot his mouth off after I was nice to him and to his buoy.

Otherwise, a great night with good people. Both fish were tagged with
plastic tags and released. One of the fish was in excellent condition when
we released it because it was hooked in the dorsal fin and we never took
it out of the water. cheers, O

COÑO!!!!!: sorry to hear that Arthur. Hey! least you got out again and got tight.

DL,,

[weekley rehab]

aurthur good job even if they are just rats. tagging them and releasing is they way to go bravo

[emijess]

Originally Posted by Uncle Buck

Arthur... we heard the VHF side of your issues. Y-Knot, right?

Yeah... buoys were thick last night. No less than 5 sets all around us. I personally don't mind the gear when it's fished respectfully. We do our part to avoid 'em if they're already in the water... but... We headed to numbers we planned to start at. Saw another boat drifting nearby, so we kept our distance. (we didn't known if it was rec or com at that point) Started sending our baits out at sunset, and the other boat buzzed within 100ft of us... stopped less than an 1/8th mile to our NE (measured on radar), and set buoys across our bow to the west like a fence. Cap wanted to pick up and run 'em over... but I convinced him that it would be the gear guy's fault if we tangled... and we may end up with a few extra LPs by the end of the night.

Luckily, the winds and currents kept us and the gear drifting basically the same, as we had no issues with the buoys. No fish either... but that's how it is when I'm on the water.

You are being way to nice. Bottom line the guy thought he owned the ocean.

[Great Escape]

The way you were treated is just wrong! That guy needs to get a grip and realize he does not need to act that way. Glad you had 2 on even if they were rats...

[Chronic Obsession]

We were out Saturday nite....a rec guy came on radio and started b_tchn bout a buoy guy...I told him to try chnl 10....a few minutes later a buoy guy comes on 72 and tells the guy if you have ne probs with me or any other buoy guys let me know and we'll be happy to come over and talk to you...don't think he had talking in mind though....gettn crowded out there......

got a story to tell bout sat nite but I'll have to start another thread on that one.....

[WhItEoUt 23]

Can any body describe the boats doing this. Names on the boat or what kind they are.

[DonK]

Who wants to pitch this to Discovery as a pilot?

[Uncle Buck]

I didn't see a name on the one that passed by us. About 25ft, white or off-white, black t-top and engine, w/bracket mount. It's not the one that Arthur had issues with.

[OBAMA]

UB, I was on the Y knots; I probably should have cooled down a
few minutes before I jumped on channel 10. In the process of
getting the MCF undone, I jabbed my thumb pretty good with
a hook and ended up loosing about 90 minutes of fishing time
between the two sets of tangles.

It turns out that I know the owner of the boat, who was not on
the boat at the time, and things are being worked out. When you
are fishing for someone, you needs to realize that you are representing
the boss (who knows lots of fisherman) and the industry. From the
sound of things, the industry has a few folks who need to better trained
and show some consideration out there. cheers, O

[Uncle Buck]

That was exactly my thought as well. Some permit owners have boats available for crews to jump on and try to make a buck. There's no guarantee that they'll be respectful to the fishery or others sharing the same waters.

Like I mentioned in my first post, I have no problem fishing in proximity with the buoys. I've had a few interactions with buoy boats in the past few years which have all been civil and polite. But that's also when there were a lot more rec boats fishing on a consistent basis. Now it seems like the buoy boats outnumber the recs at night, and there's more bullying taking place. It used to be that most of the recs fished west of the 48, while most of the buoy sets were to the east. It worked okay while the bite was plentiful and spread out. Lately we're all chasing the few fish available, which means we're bound to interact more often. That's my opinion of the situation.

[Ron.38 Special]

As far as I am concerned the recreational fishery from Miami to Palm Beach has been hijacked by the buoy fleet. They should never have been authorized, they should be using Circle Hooks, and for a good start, they should be banned from Miami to Palm Beach.

The recreational fishery is too valuable to be sold out to the buoy fleet.

How the hell NMFS justifies having J hooks on free flaoting gear is beyond me.

And don't give me any of the "We're saving the quota" crap. The amount of fish taken in this small area has virtually no affect on the quota or our negotiations to keep our quota. That argument is pure BS.

It's just not worth it to have this great, world class recreational fishery stolen by one group of commercial fishermen.

BTW, unmarked gear is ghost gear and should be pulled from the water or reported to the CG.

(never should have metnioned the enforcement stuff, sorry)

[Tunachaser]

Originally Posted by Ron.38 Special

. . .
And don't give me any of the "We're saveing the quota" crap. The amount of fish taken in this small area has virtually no affect on the quota or our negotiations to keep our quota. That argument is pure BS. . .

If this is true. . . how significant could the rec fish being reported actually be towards the quota? One would think that the buoy catch is much greater than the rec catch. . . It scares me that you "represent" the rec anglers. You're stance is always extreme/radical, but changes with the tide

[swordstalker]

Originally Posted by Tunachaser

It scares me that you "represent" the rec anglers. You're stance is always extreme/radical, but changes with the tide

Just curious Ron, what is the confirmation number of your last catch?

[WhItEoUt 23]

If you have proof of boats doing Illegal stuff out there like you say you do Then report it im pretty shure if you went to the police or nmfs something is gonna be done about it.

[Uncle Buck]

There's a difference in what is illegal -vs- unethical.

[Capt. JJ]

Don't lump us into one group. I enjoy buoy fishing. I am fully legal. Permit # SFH-86. Also have SPL RS, King Mackerel, Spanish Mackerel, Atlantic Wahoo/Dolphin, Snapper-Grouper Dealer, Wahoo/Dolphin Dealer, Swordfish Dealer, Wreckfish Dealer, and Commercial Saltwater Products Wholesale License. Tell me where I should and should not fish, Ron. Please. I insist. Everyone who knows me knows I am respectful and courteous, both to the fishery and to fellow fishermen, both rec and commercial.

[PURPLE FEVER]

Remember when there were only 3 bouy boats between WPB and Miami?::captain I guess we always can look back at the good ole' days!:

Ron if you have facts behind your statements then turn them in!!

[PURPLE FEVER]

Originally Posted by Capt. JJ

Don't lump us into one group. I enjoy buoy fishing. I am fully legal. Permit # SFH-86. Also have SPL RS, King Mackerel, Spanish Mackerel, Atlantic Wahoo/Dolphin, Snapper-Grouper Dealer, Wahoo/Dolphin Dealer, Swordfish Dealer, Wreckfish Dealer, and Commercial Saltwater Products Wholesale License. Tell me where I should and should not fish, Ron. Please. I insist. Everyone who knows me knows I am respectful and courteous, both to the fishery and to fellow fishermen, both rec and commercial.

Yes JJ and you wouldnt deliberately run thru someones spread either! Whoever did that is a real a-hole!

[Great Escape]

Originally Posted by Capt. JJ

Don't lump us into one group. I enjoy buoy fishing. I am fully legal. Permit # SFH-86. Also have SPL RS, King Mackerel, Spanish Mackerel, Atlantic Wahoo/Dolphin, Snapper-Grouper Dealer, Wahoo/Dolphin Dealer, Swordfish Dealer, Wreckfish Dealer, and Commercial Saltwater Products Wholesale License. Tell me where I should and should not fish, Ron. Please. I insist. Everyone who knows me knows I am respectful and courteous, both to the fishery and to fellow fishermen, both rec and commercial.

That's a fair request. I think most of the commercial guys are good people. It just seems like a few always seem to spoil things for everyone else. JJ, you're ok in my book and I'd fish with you any day!

[Uncle Buck]

JJ is absolutely correct. It's not the "coms" as a whole that are bad, it's individuals that can choose to be a nuisance. And that applies to both sides of the fence.

[CaptKen]

Originally Posted by Tunachaser

. . . It scares me that you "represent" the rec anglers.

Why would he scare you ?...... If anything a young lad like yourself who just stepped into the scene a few years back and read a few books could learn from someone like him that has been around the block a time or two, someone who was willing to stand up and fight for a cause, someone who was willing to go to Washington on his own dime and fight for us as a whole. Someone who remembers what it was like to see HUNDREDS of miles of hooks streched between here and the bahamas every night.

The only thing I can figure is you have a few buoy buddies and you dont like someone like him speaking his mind.

"they should be banned from Miami to Palm Beach.
The recreational fishery is too valuable to be sold out to the buoy fleet."

I'll take that statement a bit further, I think they should be banned from KEY WEST to Jacksonville !

Right now is no differnt than it was back then, if you add up all the buoys on a calm night, it is no differnt than 5 or 6 longliners working out front every calm night and way more efective than they were back then. Now you have one C console killing 10 fish in a night when it took 30 or 40 miles to do it back then.

Go to your local tackle shop an conduct a interview and ask how night time swordfish tackle sales have fell off since the buoys took over (LP lights,hooks,line, 80 wides, etc) you too will see that this fishery is far to valueable to be sold out by buoys.

[Uncle Buck]

I'm just putting this thought out, so don't take this as me choosing sides.

IF buoys were banned in our area, would it be a ban on the gear type, or commercial swordfishing of all types? If that were the case, daytime swording for profit would go bye bye as well... and I know some of you guys would have issues with that.

[TTesterman]

not many times do I need to offset my coarse. when we are fishing swords I have never had but two times buoys have come close to my spread. and 1 of those times I think I set up wrong with the wind and current... These guys that are still out there pay their dues by just being there! ... in my opinion.... I would much rather see a local guy selling their fish to a restaurant than having a fish imported from up north or Honduras ... the buoy gear guys don't have 55' boats they are 25' to 35' rigs that come home every night! they work hard for what they get. on nights that they don't do good they go home and eat the cost also... we need to find a middle ground on how we treat each other also. if you find a buoy without markings why were you that close to it? maybe you should pull it and keep it ???? <<~~~ LOL... do not try that!!!! just thought I'd elevate some heart rates for a second... have fun fishing and tight lines! and I will try not to run over any gear on my way back n forth while I can still see good...

[Ron.38 Special]

Originally Posted by Tunachaser

If this is true. . . how significant could the rec fish being reported actually be towards the quota? One would think that the buoy catch is much greater than the rec catch. . . It scares me that you "represent" the rec anglers. You're stance is always extreme/radical, but changes with the tide

Tuna,

The enforcement issues, I never should have mentioned them.

Sorry if I offended you by speaking up for the rec fishermen. As far as the quota comment, I'll explain:
In numbers, the recreational catch does nothing for the quota. The commercial industry laughs at our concern and only uses the under reporting to try to minimize the effectiveness of the recreational fishing position. The catch amounts to somewhere between 250 and maybe a high of 600 fish a year with estimates of under reporting thrown in. But, if quota's are ever lowered to a point where we have closed seasons, or if catch shares ever become a reality in HMS fisheries, then the recs will wish they reported every fish so they have some chance of setting aside a portion of the quota for us. Another important part of reporting for recreational fishermen is that in international Circles, recreational fishing is just beginning to be discussed in international fisheries managment. By showing a strong position with recreational reporting of all species unders NMFS control goes a long way towards strengthening the US position in getting other contries to recognize the importance of recreational fishery managment.

The buoy fleet on the other hand fishes in several categories, handgear,direct, incidental, and all of them are in trouble if we ever get the quota equal to our catch.

But, in the overall position with respect to our quota and international negotiations, we need a bump of 1000 tons not the 30 tons or so caught by the buoy fleet.

This forum has a very strong following in the commercial swordfishery so I would expect negative reaction when mentioning anything about buoy restrictions, but just compare the recreational experience at night before and after buoys. And remember the funniest part is that NMFS defined buoy gear to limit its use off the South Florida coast, and the exact opposite happened. They ignored the fact that a perfect gear conflict was being set up because buoys drift with current and boats drift with wind.

No one ever expects NMFS to restrict buoy gear, but it would be a good move. Lets face it 99.9% of all buoy gear sets in the US happen between Miami and West Palm Beach. No one at NMFS expected that to happen. We closed the Pelagic Longline fishery in this area because it was a nursery. With some of the reports from the last week or so of calm nights, we have more hooks being soaked then if we let a longline make a set every night and drift from Miami to West Palm.

AS far as representing the recreational fishermen, if someone else wants to take over, have at it. 5 meetings a year in DC takes a lot of your time, cost a lot out of your own pocket, and is very slow at getting any results when you are dealing with the Department of Commercial Fisheries (aka NMFS). You get beat up by the regulators, beat up by the commerical industry, and have to listen to the PLL industry call all of us (Buoy gear, handgear, electrics, and recs) a bunch of poachers, because we fish a closed zone and they think every recreational fisherman out there sells his fish to the local seafood joint, and they think every commercial sells his buddy's catch. If someone want to take over, IM me and I'll set you up. Otherwise remember that when you represent recreational, thats where you focus.

If any recreational fisherman thinks the buoy gear helps our recreational expereince, let me know how?

[Tunachaser]

Ken,
We've never met, but yes, I did "just step onto the scene a few years back". I do have friends that fish the buoys, but I am a rec fisherman. I have tried fishing the buoys a couple of times, but honestly, it's more work than I'm willing to do for the little money that there is to be made. Don't you and I have some mutual friends that fish buoys? Haven't a few of your daytimers ended up at the market (specifically the BIG one in your avatar)? A little double standard, no?
I respect that fact that Ron does everything on his own dime and time, but do you really think there isn't some kind of agenda behind all of that effort and expense? The thing that scares me is that he takes an extreme stance on the "hot topic of the day" and that stance quickly changes with the new "hot topic of the day". . . prime example is his recent posting on every sword report (here an on FS) about how important it is to report every rec sword caught. He then turns around and says that the buoy catch is basically meaningless towards the quota. . . I would think that the buoy catch is significantly greater than the rec catch in our area and contributes more towards the all mighty quota. . . .
I'm one that speaks my mind and I have no problem with someone else speaking their mind, even if their point of view is different than mine. Hell, that's where you're going to learn the most and I have learned a lot listening to both sides. I put stock in guys that are honest, consistent and stand behind their word. I put no value in guys that talk out of both sides of their mouth for the sake of a political agenda. When you boil it down, both sides seem to want exclusive use and very few are realistic and willing to compromise.

[CaptKen]

[QUOTE=Tunachaser;129249] A little double standard,QUOTE]

first I did have you mixed up with a differnt tuna guy

But like you said, I am entitled to my own opinion, I dont think because I have been on a commerical trip or two just like you I cant voice the way I feel. I took a buoy guy fishing yesterday and caught his little boy his first sail. It dont make the people bad, I would rather see rod and reel than buoys for the overall fishery.

[Uncle Buck]

Ahhhh... Just like the old days. Now that we've got the fishery debates fired up again, maybe the bite will heat up too!