Not everything needs to be on the conservation forum...

Another Grand · 10-08-2007, 06:37 PM

Just wanted you guys to see this post from Vinnie (BBPro). I do think that some things need to be in this main forum, please dont move this thread.

"There is a real sense of urgency to retain the quota. As one AP Member told Dr. Hogarth and the HMS staff, they are about to loose 1000mt of swordfish quota on their watch and they should lower their heads in shame.

Reality has hit the fan, HMS is considering any and all ideas to increase the US harvest of swordfish.

Here are some of the ideas:

Restrict imports of swordfish from Nations who do not comply with bycatch regs (MSA has a provision for this).

Develope a "Eat Domestic Swordfish Campaign" (cost Gov. about 10m)

Increase the number of handgear permits (issue that all buoy effort was in the S. Florida area did not seem to concern anyone except us).

Remove all PLL upgrade restrictions (deja vu).

Allow all permits a grace period to activate their permit thru catch reports only. A "use it or lose it" rule. The permits would then be offered back into the industry for vessels who intend to contribute to the US harvest.

Reconsider allowing Charter agreements with other Nations to catch under US quota outside our EEZ only (I think this is complicated / may need US Captain onboard).

Allow foreign crew to fish on US flagged vessels.

Revise time/area closures

Remove live bait restriction in GOM

Remove HP restriction for handgear vessels.

Create a general catagory fishery.

Convert incidental permits to directed species.

Reinstate lasped permits

Remove 3 permit requirment on PLL.

Allow shark permits to fish for swordfish.

Modify the swordfish min. size limit.

There is a few of the proposals on the table, I'll let you guys chew on them for a while. I do have a few favorites and some that make no sense at all. "

Another Grand · 10-08-2007, 07:13 PM

My thoughts.....

Restrict imports of swordfish from Nations who do not comply with bycatch regs (MSA has a provision for this). Way overdue in my opinion

Develope a "Eat Domestic Swordfish Campaign" (cost Gov. about 10m) Not sure about this.....but think it is a good idea in theory

Increase the number of handgear permits (issue that all buoy effort was in the S. Florida area did not seem to concern anyone except us).
Not sure about this......might be good idea, just not sure how they can enforce and regulate the fishery, how they will spread them out geographically.....in other words, if they can mold the fishery I might think about this

Remove all PLL upgrade restrictions (deja vu).
So long as they are fishing for swords and in areas that are not "fragile", I would like to see our fleet as the best fleet

Allow all permits a grace period to activate their permit thru catch reports only. A "use it or lose it" rule. The permits would then be offered back into the industry for vessels who intend to contribute to the US harvest.

Not sure......particulary with the current bouy situation

Reconsider allowing Charter agreements with other Nations to catch under US quota outside our EEZ only (I think this is complicated / may need US Captain onboard).

Please explain

Allow foreign crew to fish on US flagged vessels.

Dont like foreign crew

Revise time/area closures

Need more specifics.....

Remove live bait restriction in GOM

Which would result in more bycatch correct?

Remove HP restriction for handgear vessels.

Depending on the intent of such measure.... the fact that boats would not be too cumbersome to fish "cleanly" and that they wouldnt be fishing 35 jap balls to try and cover their gas.

Create a general catagory fishery.

NO

Convert incidental permits to directed species.

NO

Reinstate lasped permits

NO

Remove 3 permit requirment on PLL.

NO

Allow shark permits to fish for swordfish.

NO

Modify the swordfish min. size limit.

No.....nut I wouldnt mind seeing a rule whereby we are allowed to keep a dead pup, if it dies, rather than set it to float, similar to the bouy guys being able to keep a portion of their catch under the limit= eliminate waste

Captain Ollie · 10-08-2007, 07:53 PM

UM.....the bouy guys ARE NOT ALLOWED to keep a portion of their catch that falls under the limit.

This rule applies to vessels fishing PLL ONLY.
I believe that they are allowed to keep around 15% of the total weight of their catch worth of undersize fish.

Another Grand · 10-08-2007, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Ollie

UM.....the bouy guys ARE NOT ALLOWED to keep a portion of their catch that falls under the limit.

This rule applies to vessels fishing PLL ONLY.
I believe that they are allowed to keep around 15% of the total weight of their catch worth of undersize fish.

My bad, I misinterpreted I guess.

Point is, I would like the rules to be more creative in the benefit of the fishery

There should be a similar rule for the fishery, not necessarily reducing the size but providing an exception where by bouy guys and recs alike could kill a percentage of fish that they can harvest that die as a result of fishing in and of itself rather than these fish going to waste and not counting towards our quota.

Broadbill-Pro · 10-08-2007, 08:27 PM

I would have posted it here, but wanted to save Mike the time of moving it.

There was a lot of discussion on the different ideas posted above. I can not dictate the minutes of the meeting, but will try to explain more in depth the thoughts behind each proposal in direct questions.

Another Grand · 10-08-2007, 08:30 PM

Can you offer us your opinion on each of the ideas? If you dont mind.....whenever you get around to it.

admin · 10-08-2007, 09:06 PM

The admins have talked and decided the swordfishing - conservation forum will once again be a sub forum of swordfishing, as long as the discussion stays civilized. I don't think I need to explain...

Broadbill-Pro · 10-08-2007, 09:23 PM

Johnny,

I have a bit too much opinion on all the proposals, I'm afraid I would bore this forum to death.

I soaked in all I could during the first two days and then the forum opened up the last hour or two on day 3 to new ideas.

Some of the issues I put on the table were:

Use it or lose it in regard to permits. I have no pity for those who paid 25k, the permits were never intended to have monetary value with the exception of fish production. Permits need to be utilized to revitilize the fishery.

Mandatory circle hooks on buoy gear. With PLL and tournaments required to use them it is mind boggling that in a nursery area buoys have been exempt from this rule.

Establish a distant buoy fishery. My intent is to allow buoy vessels to fish more gear out of the south florida area. I know all about the benefits and problems with maintaining the amount of gear fished now, also the problem with additional bycatch. But if a vessel is allowed to fish more gear and chooses to make the 60 or 80nm steam offshore then we should consider permitting them to do so.

I challenged the idea that the recent vessel upgrades or trip limits will produce any benefits towards the quota. They were good ideas, but too little too late.

That's enough for now.

Broadbill-Pro · 10-08-2007, 09:25 PM

Thanks Mike

Another Grand · 10-09-2007, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

Johnny,

I have a bit too much opinion on all the proposals, I'm afraid I would bore this forum to death.

That's enough for now.

Too much opinion is how we learn my friend.

The BEAST · 10-09-2007, 04:11 AM

I have one question...

Having trouble NOW getting many recs to report and with a real possibility of shutting down the recreational fishery for reaching a set quota per year... Please explain how this would benefit the already strained issue of reporting???

Broadbill-Pro · 10-09-2007, 09:36 AM

Jim,

I don't spend a lot of time on the reporting issue, those that do will continue and those who don't probably never will.

The recreational sector will not be the savior of the quota, daytime fishing included. Rec reporting is a self serving issue for that sector, the more they report the more domestic quota for them. If they do not report now, it goes to follow that when tighter quotas are in effect their non-reporting at that time will not account to the future quota or the issue of filling it. They kinda don't exist now and won't exist then. I am not saying that they should get a pass, but by now if anyone is not reporting then they clearly have a made a choice not to do so.

Another Grand · 10-09-2007, 09:41 AM

Let me explain. If you dont report, and the PLLs and the buoys dont fill the quota, then the US quota will be lowered by ICCAT by 1000mt, to the current total catch, as BBP suggested. Then the next year the fishery will reach the lower quota, and it will shut the fishery down.

If you do report, which you should because its the law, then the now expanded trip limits for incidentals and recs might cause the incidental quota to fill and the fishery could shut down once the incidental quota is reached. Remember the quota runs from January 1 to dec 31, which is new for this year. It used to run from June-July. So if the quota closes for a particular year it will reopen the next year on Jan 1.

So its a catch 22 now. What I am saying is that recs should avoid the temptation to open a general category so you can sell fish. My assumption is that a general category would count against the incidental quota.

Vinnie what was said on that?

You are much more likely to catch the incidental quota earlier in the year as there will probably be more people out there fishing non stop because of the $ potential. I doubt they will actually make much money unless something happens to the price.

It used to happen all the time with the BFT rod and reel fishery up north, which meant the true recs couldn't fish. It created a mess when they opened up a general category that everyone with $22, a boat, tackle, and the safety quipment could jump into. Still a big investment but the current limited access system keeps it from being everyone and his brother fishing commercially for swords.

Broadbill-Pro · 10-09-2007, 04:09 PM

I believe a general catagory would most likely be the demise of the buoy fishery. Prices would not suffer from an abundance of fish, rather the cut throat attempts of buyers to buy cheap knowing that recs do not have a facility or vessel to hold fish for an extended period of time. There is always someone who will sell for less to move their product. The local market would be in chaos.

PLL may feel the effect, but they have options of other species and a fair amount of loyality from buyers who desire large quantities of quality product. My opinion is that rec fish will sell for half the price of commercially caught product, with the guys who take care of the fish suffering from the ones who don't.

It is a bad idea! Not to mention Uncle Sam trying to get their piece of the profits. Let's not forget about him.

Another Grand · 10-09-2007, 04:11 PM

I totally agree.

And Vinnie......what is your opinion of the electric reel daytime fishing IF they are to open up the general category?

Beerman · 10-09-2007, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another Grand

And Vinnie......what is your opinion of the electric reel daytime fishing IF they are to open up the general category?

AG, you can even answer that one by yourself

Broadbill-Pro · 10-11-2007, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another Grand

I totally agree.

And Vinnie......what is your opinion of the electric reel daytime fishing IF they are to open up the general category?

The end of swordfishing as we know it. The results would over shadow all past declines in the fishery. The recreatonal sector is too numerous to allow this to happen.

miamiangler1 · 10-11-2007, 08:17 AM

I have already heard of some commercial bouy guy`s ... from up north(jupiter)..switching to LP`s and doing day time drops in my area ... not sure if true .. heard this from a commercal fisherman in my area ... if that is going to happen that bouy guy switching to electric`s and doing day time drops ...... I would say with in a year .. it wont worth fishing out deep.

Broadbill-Pro · 10-11-2007, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miamiangler1

I have already heard of some commercial bouy guy`s ... from up north(jupiter)..switching to LP`s and doing day time drops in my area ... not sure if true .. heard this from a commercal fisherman in my area ... if that is going to happen that bouy guy switching to electric`s and doing day time drops ...... I would say with in a year .. it wont worth fishing out deep.

It is Illegal for a buoy vessel to use a powered hauling device. The rule is very clear on this.

The BEAST · 10-13-2007, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

The end of swordfishing as we know it. The results would over shadow all past declines in the fishery. The recreatonal sector is too numerous to allow this to happen.

Too funny!

In one breath we are told we can't make a dent in the quota; in the next breath we are told we will decimate the fishery!

Too flippin' funny!

10-08-2007, 06:37 PM	#1 (permalink)
Another Grand Grander Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,093	Not everything needs to be on the conservation forum... Just wanted you guys to see this post from Vinnie (BBPro). I do think that some things need to be in this main forum, please dont move this thread. "There is a real sense of urgency to retain the quota. As one AP Member told Dr. Hogarth and the HMS staff, they are about to loose 1000mt of swordfish quota on their watch and they should lower their heads in shame. Reality has hit the fan, HMS is considering any and all ideas to increase the US harvest of swordfish. Here are some of the ideas: Restrict imports of swordfish from Nations who do not comply with bycatch regs (MSA has a provision for this). Develope a "Eat Domestic Swordfish Campaign" (cost Gov. about 10m) Increase the number of handgear permits (issue that all buoy effort was in the S. Florida area did not seem to concern anyone except us). Remove all PLL upgrade restrictions (deja vu). Allow all permits a grace period to activate their permit thru catch reports only. A "use it or lose it" rule. The permits would then be offered back into the industry for vessels who intend to contribute to the US harvest. Reconsider allowing Charter agreements with other Nations to catch under US quota outside our EEZ only (I think this is complicated / may need US Captain onboard). Allow foreign crew to fish on US flagged vessels. Revise time/area closures Remove live bait restriction in GOM Remove HP restriction for handgear vessels. Create a general catagory fishery. Convert incidental permits to directed species. Reinstate lasped permits Remove 3 permit requirment on PLL. Allow shark permits to fish for swordfish. Modify the swordfish min. size limit. There is a few of the proposals on the table, I'll let you guys chew on them for a while. I do have a few favorites and some that make no sense at all. "

10-08-2007, 07:53 PM	#3 (permalink)
Captain Ollie Hooked Up Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Davie Florida Boat: 28 foot Kevlacat Best Catch: Strippers/Barely Legal Cheerleaders Occupation: Commercial tropical fish collector, lobster diver, bouy gear fisherman, 100ton captain Posts: 596	UM.....the bouy guys ARE NOT ALLOWED to keep a portion of their catch that falls under the limit. This rule applies to vessels fishing PLL ONLY. I believe that they are allowed to keep around 15% of the total weight of their catch worth of undersize fish. __________________ Remember that house you, or maybe your neighbor couldn't pay for? Well, now your gonna pay for it!!

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10-08-2007, 07:13 PM	#2 (permalink)
Another Grand Grander Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,093	My thoughts..... Restrict imports of swordfish from Nations who do not comply with bycatch regs (MSA has a provision for this). Way overdue in my opinion Develope a "Eat Domestic Swordfish Campaign" (cost Gov. about 10m) Not sure about this.....but think it is a good idea in theory Increase the number of handgear permits (issue that all buoy effort was in the S. Florida area did not seem to concern anyone except us). Not sure about this......might be good idea, just not sure how they can enforce and regulate the fishery, how they will spread them out geographically.....in other words, if they can mold the fishery I might think about this Remove all PLL upgrade restrictions (deja vu). So long as they are fishing for swords and in areas that are not "fragile", I would like to see our fleet as the best fleet Allow all permits a grace period to activate their permit thru catch reports only. A "use it or lose it" rule. The permits would then be offered back into the industry for vessels who intend to contribute to the US harvest. Not sure......particulary with the current bouy situation Reconsider allowing Charter agreements with other Nations to catch under US quota outside our EEZ only (I think this is complicated / may need US Captain onboard). Please explain Allow foreign crew to fish on US flagged vessels. Dont like foreign crew Revise time/area closures Need more specifics..... Remove live bait restriction in GOM Which would result in more bycatch correct? Remove HP restriction for handgear vessels. Depending on the intent of such measure.... the fact that boats would not be too cumbersome to fish "cleanly" and that they wouldnt be fishing 35 jap balls to try and cover their gas. Create a general catagory fishery. NO Convert incidental permits to directed species. NO Reinstate lasped permits NO Remove 3 permit requirment on PLL. NO Allow shark permits to fish for swordfish. NO Modify the swordfish min. size limit. No.....nut I wouldnt mind seeing a rule whereby we are allowed to keep a dead pup, if it dies, rather than set it to float, similar to the bouy guys being able to keep a portion of their catch under the limit= eliminate waste

10-08-2007, 08:27 PM	#5 (permalink)
Broadbill-Pro Grander Join Date: Jan 2006 Best Catch: When I look at a Commercial Fishing Vessel I see 300 million Americans and you only see the Crew Posts: 1,395	I would have posted it here, but wanted to save Mike the time of moving it. There was a lot of discussion on the different ideas posted above. I can not dictate the minutes of the meeting, but will try to explain more in depth the thoughts behind each proposal in direct questions.

10-08-2007, 08:30 PM	#6 (permalink)
Another Grand Grander Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,093	Can you offer us your opinion on each of the ideas? If you dont mind.....whenever you get around to it.

10-08-2007, 09:06 PM	#7 (permalink)
admin Administrator Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 52	The admins have talked and decided the swordfishing - conservation forum will once again be a sub forum of swordfishing, as long as the discussion stays civilized. I don't think I need to explain...

10-08-2007, 09:23 PM	#8 (permalink)
Broadbill-Pro Grander Join Date: Jan 2006 Best Catch: When I look at a Commercial Fishing Vessel I see 300 million Americans and you only see the Crew Posts: 1,395	Johnny, I have a bit too much opinion on all the proposals, I'm afraid I would bore this forum to death. I soaked in all I could during the first two days and then the forum opened up the last hour or two on day 3 to new ideas. Some of the issues I put on the table were: Use it or lose it in regard to permits. I have no pity for those who paid 25k, the permits were never intended to have monetary value with the exception of fish production. Permits need to be utilized to revitilize the fishery. Mandatory circle hooks on buoy gear. With PLL and tournaments required to use them it is mind boggling that in a nursery area buoys have been exempt from this rule. Establish a distant buoy fishery. My intent is to allow buoy vessels to fish more gear out of the south florida area. I know all about the benefits and problems with maintaining the amount of gear fished now, also the problem with additional bycatch. But if a vessel is allowed to fish more gear and chooses to make the 60 or 80nm steam offshore then we should consider permitting them to do so. I challenged the idea that the recent vessel upgrades or trip limits will produce any benefits towards the quota. They were good ideas, but too little too late. That's enough for now.

10-08-2007, 09:25 PM	#9 (permalink)
Broadbill-Pro Grander Join Date: Jan 2006 Best Catch: When I look at a Commercial Fishing Vessel I see 300 million Americans and you only see the Crew Posts: 1,395	Thanks Mike

10-09-2007, 04:11 AM	#11 (permalink)
The BEAST Charter Captain Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Miami Boat: 2007 WorldCat 330TE / 300 Suzuki's Best Catch: every catch is my best catch Occupation: charter captain Posts: 951	I have one question... Having trouble NOW getting many recs to report and with a real possibility of shutting down the recreational fishery for reaching a set quota per year... Please explain how this would benefit the already strained issue of reporting???

10-09-2007, 09:36 AM	#12 (permalink)
Broadbill-Pro Grander Join Date: Jan 2006 Best Catch: When I look at a Commercial Fishing Vessel I see 300 million Americans and you only see the Crew Posts: 1,395	Jim, I don't spend a lot of time on the reporting issue, those that do will continue and those who don't probably never will. The recreational sector will not be the savior of the quota, daytime fishing included. Rec reporting is a self serving issue for that sector, the more they report the more domestic quota for them. If they do not report now, it goes to follow that when tighter quotas are in effect their non-reporting at that time will not account to the future quota or the issue of filling it. They kinda don't exist now and won't exist then. I am not saying that they should get a pass, but by now if anyone is not reporting then they clearly have a made a choice not to do so.

10-09-2007, 09:41 AM	#13 (permalink)
Another Grand Grander Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,093	Let me explain. If you dont report, and the PLLs and the buoys dont fill the quota, then the US quota will be lowered by ICCAT by 1000mt, to the current total catch, as BBP suggested. Then the next year the fishery will reach the lower quota, and it will shut the fishery down. If you do report, which you should because its the law, then the now expanded trip limits for incidentals and recs might cause the incidental quota to fill and the fishery could shut down once the incidental quota is reached. Remember the quota runs from January 1 to dec 31, which is new for this year. It used to run from June-July. So if the quota closes for a particular year it will reopen the next year on Jan 1. So its a catch 22 now. What I am saying is that recs should avoid the temptation to open a general category so you can sell fish. My assumption is that a general category would count against the incidental quota. Vinnie what was said on that? You are much more likely to catch the incidental quota earlier in the year as there will probably be more people out there fishing non stop because of the $ potential. I doubt they will actually make much money unless something happens to the price. It used to happen all the time with the BFT rod and reel fishery up north, which meant the true recs couldn't fish. It created a mess when they opened up a general category that everyone with $22, a boat, tackle, and the safety quipment could jump into. Still a big investment but the current limited access system keeps it from being everyone and his brother fishing commercially for swords.

10-09-2007, 04:09 PM	#14 (permalink)
Broadbill-Pro Grander Join Date: Jan 2006 Best Catch: When I look at a Commercial Fishing Vessel I see 300 million Americans and you only see the Crew Posts: 1,395	I believe a general catagory would most likely be the demise of the buoy fishery. Prices would not suffer from an abundance of fish, rather the cut throat attempts of buyers to buy cheap knowing that recs do not have a facility or vessel to hold fish for an extended period of time. There is always someone who will sell for less to move their product. The local market would be in chaos. PLL may feel the effect, but they have options of other species and a fair amount of loyality from buyers who desire large quantities of quality product. My opinion is that rec fish will sell for half the price of commercially caught product, with the guys who take care of the fish suffering from the ones who don't. It is a bad idea! Not to mention Uncle Sam trying to get their piece of the profits. Let's not forget about him.

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10-09-2007, 04:11 PM	#15 (permalink)
Another Grand Grander Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,093	I totally agree. And Vinnie......what is your opinion of the electric reel daytime fishing IF they are to open up the general category?

10-11-2007, 08:17 AM	#18 (permalink)
miamiangler1 Grander Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: north miami, keystone point Boat: ,live bait ,deep dropping,swordfishing Best Catch: 7ft sailfish on 10#test with diawaBG20, 100#tarpon on 6#test baitcaster bass rod Occupation: selfemployed,real estate, painter,model builder Posts: 1,573	I have already heard of some commercial bouy guy`s ... from up north(jupiter)..switching to LP`s and doing day time drops in my area ... not sure if true .. heard this from a commercal fisherman in my area ... if that is going to happen that bouy guy switching to electric`s and doing day time drops ...... I would say with in a year .. it wont worth fishing out deep.