Wow - Swordfish & Longlines - Page 3

quack quack · 06-20-2007, 02:44 PM

What boat is that Vinny?It looks like an old jim smith or montery?

That is a wild looking shot with all those flyers

But no matter what they have to play by the same buoy rules as the other guys

If they can fish all those buoy effectivly that would be cool to see.

mneptune · 06-20-2007, 03:17 PM

Is there a limit to the number of bouys that can be fished?

quack quack · 06-20-2007, 03:58 PM

There is a limit I think it is 30 or 35.

Ambitious · 06-20-2007, 04:12 PM

mass harvest techniques like PLL are devastating fisheries around the world. Its not a myth, it is well documented. Fish are not corn or tomatoes, commercial fisherman did not plant them. Nobody should have the exclusive rights to harvest something that they did nothing to create. Find an effective, conservative method of fishing that allows the resource to survive in its optimum condition or 4 fish per boat per day sounds fair FOR ALL. When bluefin and sword stocks were plentiful, didn't many commercial fisherman survive just fine harpooning them one at a time? Now that is a selective harvest method. I suspect 10 - 12 bouys is similarily selective. PLL is much more non selective, much larger in scale and abuses the resource and it is part of what is decimating pelagic fish world wide. Pure greed strikes again........

rollin · 06-20-2007, 07:22 PM

"OK enough with all this crap.

Rollin LL gear should not be banned world wide and has it's place.LL gear run correctly and in proper areas will not threaten an entire species."

is there a really a good reason to run LL gear Q? what about new technology? stuff that limits bycatch and still has an effective rate?

"Commercial fisherman are not evil and the root of the problem.

If you want to talk about a certain area around the world that should not have LL gear because of bycatch or pups then fine.But do not wrap up all types of LLing or commercial fishing into one ball.I have not even read through all of this thread just enough to now it is BS.So go drink another 12pack and go watch your favorite tv show Deadliest catch"

i didnt say they were evil - just maybe stupid - read along please. and by the way, a 12 pack doesnt make a dent on me - lightweight.

I read back and saw your post about banning buoys next.You dope if not for the buoy boats and there capts supporting us the LLers would be in the straights now!!

I, like many here, have heard the the bouys are the reason why theres no PLL gear anymore - i don't believe it Q. Please tell me why I'm wrong.
R

Broadbill-Pro · 06-21-2007, 06:16 AM

Eric,

I don't have any info on the vessel, the photo was forwarded to me and I asked permission to post it. I know this vessel sails from your neck of the woods. I have always believed that the 35 buoy and 70 hook limit would be utilized given time to figure out a method. I am sure Tim has that info.

I certainly understand the view of exploiting a natural resource and in a perfect world we would manufacture all human needs without causing harm to the environment. We don't live in that world, all we can do is regulate ourselves to co-exist with nature in a way that does not realize the end of a resource. PLL can never clean the oceans of a species, it did not occur during the peak of the 80's and 90's and it certainly can not occur now that the fleets have been reduced to a fraction of the past. It is a rechargable resource and with proper management all user groups can share access.

rollin · 06-21-2007, 06:40 AM

"I remember when PLL'ers looked like Sportfishing vessels, this is a recent photo of new entry in the buoy fishery. The photo speaks for itself as to where that fishery is headed."

great - this is exactly what we need in the EEZ - 50 or so more boats like this one run by ex-PLL crews that cant get back in here so they'll fish the next most efficient means of killing swords - bouy (mini PLL) gear.

i never said word about commecial fisherman in this thread Q - dont put words into my mouth please - i'm against the gear - not the crews or the rights of people to put food on their families tables.

several people have suggested in this thread that commercial fishing regs should be changed in the EEZ to allow less commercial limits and limit the gear to rod and reel for all fishermen - rec. and comm.

please tell me one reason that doesnt include $ why this is a bad idea.

"I certainly understand the view of exploiting a natural resource and in a perfect world we would manufacture all human needs without causing harm to the environment. We don't live in that world, all we can do is regulate ourselves to co-exist with nature in a way that does not realize the end of a resource. PLL can never clean the oceans of a species, it did not occur during the peak of the 80's and 90's and it certainly can not occur now that the fleets have been reduced to a fraction of the past. It is a rechargable resource and with proper management all user groups can share access."

OK BBP - this might be the most rediculous thing i've ever read from you. are you still trying to get us to believe that PLL gear is just fine and dandy and doesnt hurt any fish stocks?

is it possible that the reason PLL gear use has declined so much is due to the lack of fish? so are you saying that the giant bluefin stocks are just fine then? the PLL gear limitations, (caps on boat volume - closures and so forth) of the early 90s were instituted just to piss off a few PLL operators?

the commercial fishing industry would benefit by volunteering to eliminate this gear. the fish stocks obviously cannot be hurt by banning it - use of other less damaging gear can still catch tons of fish - plenty to provide for the families of the crews - just maybe not enough for the operators to get rich.

tell you guys something - i really am not going to lose a minute of sleep knowing that PLL operators can no longer afford a mercedes - and that sword pups are not being slaughtered by the ton instead.

R

quack quack · 06-21-2007, 08:29 AM

OK Rollin tell my about this new technology type of fishing?

Now tell me how all commercial fisherman are stupid?

The reason buoy gear helped keep LLers out is the fact that BW biggest card would have been to sue for equal access to a fishery for commercial fishing.Now that there are buoy guys commercially fishing this takes that law suit off the table!

Next that boat is the Osprey one of the first if not the first Jim Smith ever made.He is running 30 flyers with 1 hk per float.He has had a couple good nights but not many.He tried running 10 or 15 reg buoy set ups but could not make any money.He then went to the flyer Set up but is not doing much better and he fishes about every night.Facts are facts it is almost impossible to run a big boat on buoy gear because of fuel and other costs.Not to mention working the gear effectively is very hard to do with that many dobs.If not for some $ backing this boat it would have stopped fishing already.

catching · 06-21-2007, 11:36 AM

Vinnie you know it is a total of 35 floats/bouy per boat

which includes bite indicator, Polly ball, and then bouy with strobe so that would make 11 drops possible and if each one has 2 hooks per drop only 22 hooks

DIRTYFOOT2 · 06-21-2007, 06:48 PM

Does that capt need a mate?? Nice rig

kyle · 06-21-2007, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIRTYFOOT2

Does that capt need a mate?? Nice rig

Just about to say the same thing. I don't think I could fit that many flyers on my boat.

DIRTYFOOT2 · 06-22-2007, 05:14 AM

Id try it if we had a permit.

Broadbill-Pro · 06-22-2007, 06:45 AM

Dan,

That is the way most guys are fishing, personally I would drop 35 x 60'' polly balls x 2 hooks with radio beacons. Get a good nights sleep and pick up the bounty in the morning.

catching · 06-22-2007, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

Dan,

That is the way most guys are fishing, personally I would drop 35 x 60'' polly balls x 2 hooks with radio beacons. Get a good nights sleep and pick up the bounty in the morning.

that is it stir the pot more

are you fishing Saturday night?

quack quack · 06-22-2007, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

Dan,

That is the way most guys are fishing, personally I would drop 35 x 60'' polly balls x 2 hooks with radio beacons. Get a good nights sleep and pick up the bounty in the morning.

Good thing thats not how the buoy guys fish because you would be picking up and throwing away some dead pups like that

CaptKen · 06-22-2007, 08:37 AM

I can shed some light on the 35 buoys on this rig because I seen him down here in our neck of the woods, He dosent use a bullet buoy as a bite indicator, he uses a balloon, I was told through the grape vine that this only a test boat, He is the grandson of a famous yacht builder whos name I wont say, He used to be a longliner back in the old days that had a fleet back then, So the moral to the story is : He has plenty of money behind him , and if it works you can expect to see a whole fleet of them in the near future

I say it could be the begining of the end

, I think that if it works as planned history is about to repeat itself. If you saw this rig in action and if you have ever seen a longline you would swear it is a longline with the highflyers close together. everything you know about the small 25' openfish checking gear every 45 min, throw it out the window ! This is a big production line !

quack quack · 06-22-2007, 08:42 AM

But the point is if not for $ backing this test boat would have stopped fishing already.He is not catching any more fish then a reg buoy guy.On top of that NMFS will be doing some gear clarification soon.

So the potential of a fleet of boats fishing 35 flyers or beepers is not going to happen

rollin · 06-22-2007, 08:55 AM

OK Rollin tell my about this new technology type of fishing?

i dont know of any - i'm not a professional fisherman, but if i was, i'd spend my time and money to develop new gear that is effective and doesnt cause declines of the very fish stocks that i make my living catching. common sense.

Now tell me how all commercial fisherman are stupid?

i never said that. i said "longliners are not evil, just stupid i guess, or they would simply develop new gear thats productive without harming the stock."

The reason buoy gear helped keep LLers out is the fact that BW biggest card would have been to sue for equal access to a fishery for commercial fishing.Now that there are buoy guys commercially fishing this takes that law suit off the table!

that is complete BS spouted by the likes of BW and PLL and bouy gear operators. commercial fishermen can and do fish the 50 line right next to us every time we're out there - they can sell their catch, we cannot - thats fine and dandy with me - please pay attention here Q, i dont want to be misqouted or misunderstood - i could care less if every boat out there was comm. and i was the only rec. fisherman in the entire ocean - as long as they are required to fish the same gear as me, and the limits were the same for everyone - THATS FAIR AND EQUAL ACCESS - IT ALREADY EXISTS - there's no reason for BW or PLL operators to sue anybody.

Next that boat is the Osprey one of the first if not the first Jim Smith ever made.He is running 30 flyers with 1 hk per float.He has had a couple good nights but not many.He tried running 10 or 15 reg buoy set ups but could not make any money.He then went to the flyer Set up but is not doing much better and he fishes about every night.Facts are facts it is almost impossible to run a big boat on buoy gear because of fuel and other costs.Not to mention working the gear effectively is very hard to do with that many dobs.If not for some $ backing this boat it would have stopped fishing.

eliminate the bouy gear and leave the closed zone closed to all types of unattended gear. this is a nursery area chock full of pups and should be protected from exploitation by greedy people - forever. - and PLEASE dont give me any BS about closing the zone to rec. fishing being fair - it has been proven time and time again the properly managed rec. pressure alone causes no damage to fish stocks.

R

quack quack · 06-22-2007, 09:16 AM

No BS in the law thing sorry you have your head in the sand or what ever about this issue.At least you are passionate about what you believe in.

I know what I know and believe what I believe.Just like religion or other beliefs you do yours and I will do mine.

I am a little shocked that Vinny decided to take this thing a diff way.I was watching you all beat him up and tried to defend LLers and him then he goes after buoy guys and how they are the next thing to wipe out the swordfish

I am done with this BS for now that's for sure.You guy's should have been at Drew's party last night

you would have had a blast.I am looking forward to fishing Sat night and will put a slob on the deck for you guy's.Come on down to the weigh in and see for yourselves.

Peace out

Ambitious · 06-22-2007, 09:52 AM

how is a baloon used as a bite indicator any different than a bouy, baloons float, obviously they can carry substantial weight and stay afloat (we use them as our 'jugs'). If baloons are his indicators I would say this guy is ALREADY in breach of the law and should be checked out by enforcement. Tradional LL'r too, you guys really know how to win freinds and influence people, they should send you turkeys to a class on that. And why again should one small user group benefit to the detriment of all other users? Its a well known fact (or should be) that this new rec fishery is having a much greater economic benefit to this region than a handful of PLLs or large scale bouy boats ever wil

06-20-2007, 02:44 PM	#41 (permalink)
quack quack Old Salt Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: lake worth Best Catch: 25lb codfish 5 yrs old first hanger Posts: 4,456	What boat is that Vinny?It looks like an old jim smith or montery? That is a wild looking shot with all those flyers But no matter what they have to play by the same buoy rules as the other guys If they can fish all those buoy effectivly that would be cool to see. __________________ Either we can be a part of the solution or we can be the victims of a decision.

06-20-2007, 03:17 PM	#42 (permalink)
mneptune Hooked Up Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Palm Beach Boat: Grady White 25' CC Best Catch: She won't let me talk about her on here Occupation: good ole SOB Posts: 300	Is there a limit to the number of bouys that can be fished? __________________ I FISH THEREFORE IAM

06-20-2007, 03:58 PM	#43 (permalink)
quack quack Old Salt Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: lake worth Best Catch: 25lb codfish 5 yrs old first hanger Posts: 4,456	There is a limit I think it is 30 or 35. __________________ Either we can be a part of the solution or we can be the victims of a decision.

06-21-2007, 08:29 AM	#48 (permalink)
quack quack Old Salt Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: lake worth Best Catch: 25lb codfish 5 yrs old first hanger Posts: 4,456	OK Rollin tell my about this new technology type of fishing? Now tell me how all commercial fisherman are stupid? The reason buoy gear helped keep LLers out is the fact that BW biggest card would have been to sue for equal access to a fishery for commercial fishing.Now that there are buoy guys commercially fishing this takes that law suit off the table! Next that boat is the Osprey one of the first if not the first Jim Smith ever made.He is running 30 flyers with 1 hk per float.He has had a couple good nights but not many.He tried running 10 or 15 reg buoy set ups but could not make any money.He then went to the flyer Set up but is not doing much better and he fishes about every night.Facts are facts it is almost impossible to run a big boat on buoy gear because of fuel and other costs.Not to mention working the gear effectively is very hard to do with that many dobs.If not for some $ backing this boat it would have stopped fishing already. __________________ Either we can be a part of the solution or we can be the victims of a decision.

06-21-2007, 11:36 AM	#49 (permalink)
catching Grander Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,441	Vinnie you know it is a total of 35 floats/bouy per boat which includes bite indicator, Polly ball, and then bouy with strobe so that would make 11 drops possible and if each one has 2 hooks per drop only 22 hooks __________________ Better to be lucky than good

06-20-2007, 04:12 PM	#44 (permalink)
Ambitious Lines In Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 77	mass harvest techniques like PLL are devastating fisheries around the world. Its not a myth, it is well documented. Fish are not corn or tomatoes, commercial fisherman did not plant them. Nobody should have the exclusive rights to harvest something that they did nothing to create. Find an effective, conservative method of fishing that allows the resource to survive in its optimum condition or 4 fish per boat per day sounds fair FOR ALL. When bluefin and sword stocks were plentiful, didn't many commercial fisherman survive just fine harpooning them one at a time? Now that is a selective harvest method. I suspect 10 - 12 bouys is similarily selective. PLL is much more non selective, much larger in scale and abuses the resource and it is part of what is decimating pelagic fish world wide. Pure greed strikes again........

06-20-2007, 07:22 PM	#45 (permalink)
rollin Hooked Up Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 258	"OK enough with all this crap. Rollin LL gear should not be banned world wide and has it's place.LL gear run correctly and in proper areas will not threaten an entire species." is there a really a good reason to run LL gear Q? what about new technology? stuff that limits bycatch and still has an effective rate? "Commercial fisherman are not evil and the root of the problem. If you want to talk about a certain area around the world that should not have LL gear because of bycatch or pups then fine.But do not wrap up all types of LLing or commercial fishing into one ball.I have not even read through all of this thread just enough to now it is BS.So go drink another 12pack and go watch your favorite tv show Deadliest catch" i didnt say they were evil - just maybe stupid - read along please. and by the way, a 12 pack doesnt make a dent on me - lightweight. I read back and saw your post about banning buoys next.You dope if not for the buoy boats and there capts supporting us the LLers would be in the straights now!! I, like many here, have heard the the bouys are the reason why theres no PLL gear anymore - i don't believe it Q. Please tell me why I'm wrong. R

06-21-2007, 06:16 AM	#46 (permalink)
Broadbill-Pro Grander Join Date: Jan 2006 Best Catch: When I look at a Commercial Fishing Vessel I see 300 million Americans and you only see the Crew Posts: 1,219	Eric, I don't have any info on the vessel, the photo was forwarded to me and I asked permission to post it. I know this vessel sails from your neck of the woods. I have always believed that the 35 buoy and 70 hook limit would be utilized given time to figure out a method. I am sure Tim has that info. I certainly understand the view of exploiting a natural resource and in a perfect world we would manufacture all human needs without causing harm to the environment. We don't live in that world, all we can do is regulate ourselves to co-exist with nature in a way that does not realize the end of a resource. PLL can never clean the oceans of a species, it did not occur during the peak of the 80's and 90's and it certainly can not occur now that the fleets have been reduced to a fraction of the past. It is a rechargable resource and with proper management all user groups can share access.

06-21-2007, 06:40 AM	#47 (permalink)
rollin Hooked Up Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 258	"I remember when PLL'ers looked like Sportfishing vessels, this is a recent photo of new entry in the buoy fishery. The photo speaks for itself as to where that fishery is headed." great - this is exactly what we need in the EEZ - 50 or so more boats like this one run by ex-PLL crews that cant get back in here so they'll fish the next most efficient means of killing swords - bouy (mini PLL) gear. i never said word about commecial fisherman in this thread Q - dont put words into my mouth please - i'm against the gear - not the crews or the rights of people to put food on their families tables. several people have suggested in this thread that commercial fishing regs should be changed in the EEZ to allow less commercial limits and limit the gear to rod and reel for all fishermen - rec. and comm. please tell me one reason that doesnt include $ why this is a bad idea. "I certainly understand the view of exploiting a natural resource and in a perfect world we would manufacture all human needs without causing harm to the environment. We don't live in that world, all we can do is regulate ourselves to co-exist with nature in a way that does not realize the end of a resource. PLL can never clean the oceans of a species, it did not occur during the peak of the 80's and 90's and it certainly can not occur now that the fleets have been reduced to a fraction of the past. It is a rechargable resource and with proper management all user groups can share access." OK BBP - this might be the most rediculous thing i've ever read from you. are you still trying to get us to believe that PLL gear is just fine and dandy and doesnt hurt any fish stocks? is it possible that the reason PLL gear use has declined so much is due to the lack of fish? so are you saying that the giant bluefin stocks are just fine then? the PLL gear limitations, (caps on boat volume - closures and so forth) of the early 90s were instituted just to piss off a few PLL operators? the commercial fishing industry would benefit by volunteering to eliminate this gear. the fish stocks obviously cannot be hurt by banning it - use of other less damaging gear can still catch tons of fish - plenty to provide for the families of the crews - just maybe not enough for the operators to get rich. tell you guys something - i really am not going to lose a minute of sleep knowing that PLL operators can no longer afford a mercedes - and that sword pups are not being slaughtered by the ton instead. R

06-21-2007, 06:48 PM	#50 (permalink)
DIRTYFOOT2 Grander Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Lake Worth fl Best Catch: 53lb Black Grouper Occupation: Gunnel Washer Posts: 2,027	Does that capt need a mate?? Nice rig __________________ right thumb on the spool, left hand flips the lever

06-22-2007, 05:14 AM	#52 (permalink)
DIRTYFOOT2 Grander Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Lake Worth fl Best Catch: 53lb Black Grouper Occupation: Gunnel Washer Posts: 2,027	Id try it if we had a permit. __________________ right thumb on the spool, left hand flips the lever

06-22-2007, 06:45 AM	#53 (permalink)
Broadbill-Pro Grander Join Date: Jan 2006 Best Catch: When I look at a Commercial Fishing Vessel I see 300 million Americans and you only see the Crew Posts: 1,219	Dan, That is the way most guys are fishing, personally I would drop 35 x 60'' polly balls x 2 hooks with radio beacons. Get a good nights sleep and pick up the bounty in the morning.

06-22-2007, 08:37 AM	#56 (permalink)
CaptKen Hooked Up Join Date: May 2004 Location: Sunrise/Dania Fla. Occupation: Power Plant Control Room Operator Posts: 838	I can shed some light on the 35 buoys on this rig because I seen him down here in our neck of the woods, He dosent use a bullet buoy as a bite indicator, he uses a balloon, I was told through the grape vine that this only a test boat, He is the grandson of a famous yacht builder whos name I wont say, He used to be a longliner back in the old days that had a fleet back then, So the moral to the story is : He has plenty of money behind him , and if it works you can expect to see a whole fleet of them in the near future I say it could be the begining of the end , I think that if it works as planned history is about to repeat itself. If you saw this rig in action and if you have ever seen a longline you would swear it is a longline with the highflyers close together. everything you know about the small 25' openfish checking gear every 45 min, throw it out the window ! This is a big production line ! __________________ http://home.comcast.net/~CaptKen1

06-22-2007, 08:42 AM	#57 (permalink)
quack quack Old Salt Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: lake worth Best Catch: 25lb codfish 5 yrs old first hanger Posts: 4,456	But the point is if not for $ backing this test boat would have stopped fishing already.He is not catching any more fish then a reg buoy guy.On top of that NMFS will be doing some gear clarification soon. So the potential of a fleet of boats fishing 35 flyers or beepers is not going to happen __________________ Either we can be a part of the solution or we can be the victims of a decision.

06-22-2007, 08:55 AM	#58 (permalink)
rollin Hooked Up Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 258	OK Rollin tell my about this new technology type of fishing? i dont know of any - i'm not a professional fisherman, but if i was, i'd spend my time and money to develop new gear that is effective and doesnt cause declines of the very fish stocks that i make my living catching. common sense. Now tell me how all commercial fisherman are stupid? i never said that. i said "longliners are not evil, just stupid i guess, or they would simply develop new gear thats productive without harming the stock." The reason buoy gear helped keep LLers out is the fact that BW biggest card would have been to sue for equal access to a fishery for commercial fishing.Now that there are buoy guys commercially fishing this takes that law suit off the table! that is complete BS spouted by the likes of BW and PLL and bouy gear operators. commercial fishermen can and do fish the 50 line right next to us every time we're out there - they can sell their catch, we cannot - thats fine and dandy with me - please pay attention here Q, i dont want to be misqouted or misunderstood - i could care less if every boat out there was comm. and i was the only rec. fisherman in the entire ocean - as long as they are required to fish the same gear as me, and the limits were the same for everyone - THATS FAIR AND EQUAL ACCESS - IT ALREADY EXISTS - there's no reason for BW or PLL operators to sue anybody. Next that boat is the Osprey one of the first if not the first Jim Smith ever made.He is running 30 flyers with 1 hk per float.He has had a couple good nights but not many.He tried running 10 or 15 reg buoy set ups but could not make any money.He then went to the flyer Set up but is not doing much better and he fishes about every night.Facts are facts it is almost impossible to run a big boat on buoy gear because of fuel and other costs.Not to mention working the gear effectively is very hard to do with that many dobs.If not for some $ backing this boat it would have stopped fishing. eliminate the bouy gear and leave the closed zone closed to all types of unattended gear. this is a nursery area chock full of pups and should be protected from exploitation by greedy people - forever. - and PLEASE dont give me any BS about closing the zone to rec. fishing being fair - it has been proven time and time again the properly managed rec. pressure alone causes no damage to fish stocks. R

06-22-2007, 09:16 AM	#59 (permalink)
quack quack Old Salt Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: lake worth Best Catch: 25lb codfish 5 yrs old first hanger Posts: 4,456	No BS in the law thing sorry you have your head in the sand or what ever about this issue.At least you are passionate about what you believe in. I know what I know and believe what I believe.Just like religion or other beliefs you do yours and I will do mine. I am a little shocked that Vinny decided to take this thing a diff way.I was watching you all beat him up and tried to defend LLers and him then he goes after buoy guys and how they are the next thing to wipe out the swordfish I am done with this BS for now that's for sure.You guy's should have been at Drew's party last night you would have had a blast.I am looking forward to fishing Sat night and will put a slob on the deck for you guy's.Come on down to the weigh in and see for yourselves. Peace out __________________ Either we can be a part of the solution or we can be the victims of a decision.