My Report from DC - Page 3

Tuna Devil · 03-21-2007, 12:46 PM

And you do put up a good fight Eric.

Broadbill · 03-21-2007, 12:46 PM

You may be right TD but if because of buoy gear LLers are kept out I do not think guys will bitch about buoys that much.But if they do then I will fight for the buoy guys.

Vinnie is right. You might not care about the three buoy guys now, but what if there ends up being twenty boats out there all the time doing it? Will you guys care then?

Tuna Devil · 03-21-2007, 12:50 PM

Of course they will care. Right now it is the lesser of two evils (Just an expression, I do not think either fishery is evil).

LIGHTS OUT · 03-21-2007, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quack quack

You may be right TD but if because of buoy gear LLers are kept out I do not think guys will bitch about buoys that much.But if they do then I will fight for the buoy guys.

I'm sure there is a large group of guys if not the grand majoriity with exactly these sentiments.

quack quack · 03-21-2007, 12:58 PM

I don't think wevils are evils eithers

The BEAST · 03-21-2007, 01:25 PM

Vinnie,

If the other countries are standing outside the 200 mile EEZ and catching their quota and requesting portions of ours, what is the problem with our commercial guys? They can fish most anywhere inside the EEZ and yet they still want in the closed zone. Break clean for once, please! It's the ease at which they could, once again, clobber the more desirable, 60-90# cores. This is so sad that you continue to try and tell us that killing more fish in our own pond, as you put it, saves more fish. Damn, I must be stupid, that I can't see your logic!

A sadder point is that BWFA has you so wrapped up that you would sacrifice days like you recently had with you son, for the sake of them, the few. Maybe it is that you would rather your son be a Sword Captain on a PLL and you can relive your life vicariously through him. Either way it is SAD.

We understand that this is not solely OUR ocean. Your point of saving the pond and losing the ocean is assinnine. We will never have control of the high seas.

Do you think that the recreational presence could actually compare to 13 PLL's? You have stated earlier this year that the rec sector can't possibly contribute enough to the quota to be effective and that is why we need the PLL's back in here to help make the quota. Now you say the rec fisherman is detremental to the fishery here catching all these small non-brood sized fish. Which is it? Do we make a difference or not? If we the rec fisherman are catching all non breeding fish what the hell are the PLL's going to be catching? Vinnie, do you serve syrup with your waffle?

We compromised and showed good faith with the buoy guys. I have no problem with allowing commercial buoy fishing. I do have a problem with all the buoy fisherman packing in to one area though. It would be extremely palatable if they would divide the closed zone up in sections and offer only so many buoy permits per sector. You and your cronies figured if you got more buoy influence in here it would lay the tracks for the PLL's. Best laid plans do go awry! You are trying to use this point now to get backing from a commercial sector which also knows that the PLL's could actually mean the loss of their own business. If there are no fish again they are DONE. They are not stupid people.

I have lived many years now and know all to well how this works. If we cave in and allow the 13 PLL's in the upper and lower ends of the "zone" in a few months we will see the next argument from the remaining PLL's... Why is the area only opened only to a select few and not everyone? That is as plain as the nose on my face. I cite 2 old phrases... "give them an inch and they'll take a mile" and "once they get their foot in the door..."

We must remain steadfast in our goal to not let history repeat itself. Ron, Skip, QQ, and any others. Maybe we should contact the local news etc. and get ALL of the American public involved in our fight. I remember not too long ago when they tried to sneak in some PLL's under the guise of "research". Susan Cocking broke the news but it was too late. The day after they started fishing, one of the boats washed ashore, broken down, in Ft Lauderdale. When the story broke on the local news that evening, an informed public became very vocal. The "research" was immediately haulted!

Capt. Jim
The BEAST

quack quack · 03-21-2007, 01:36 PM

I just contacted a local paper writer so hopefull he will put some press on this.
If any one knows a reporter or writer give them a call or email asap.Lets send some emails to the local news stations.I am swapped so if some one could do this for me it would be great.If they would like they can call me at 561-315-8881.

Tuna Devil · 03-21-2007, 01:48 PM

Can you take medication for being swapped?

quack quack · 03-21-2007, 01:50 PM

See I told you I am messed up swapped swamped same thing only worse.

Skip Smith · 03-21-2007, 01:58 PM

Florida Today (Melbourne) had a article in yesterday's paper. I sent it to the Ft. Laud and Miami outdoor writers and to marlin Magz.

Beast: do you attend the Swordfish Club"s meeting? Would love to have you there.

quack quack · 03-21-2007, 02:02 PM

Thanks Skip

Still contact as many people as you can guys send emails letters make calls.I think the wind is blowing for a reason.No excuses not to call or send emails

swordstalker · 03-21-2007, 02:13 PM

Here's the link to the Florida Today article....
Bill Sargent

quack quack · 03-21-2007, 02:20 PM

Thanks Mark

Broadbill-Pro · 03-21-2007, 02:31 PM

The idea of sacrificing the buoys has already been on the table since the last meeting in FTL. With the influence that recs have I would not be surprised if they are able to fend off the EFP's, at that point they will turn on the buoy fisherman as predicted. QQ and Ron will be at each other as I believe one of them is honorable.

I already see the writing on the wall, ummmm I think buoys are OK if there's not too many of them, if they set east of the 50, if the boats are fast enough. The slaying of that industry is in the making as soon as the LL issue is resolved.

quack quack · 03-21-2007, 02:48 PM

Well I hope you are calling me the honorable one

But I think we both are.Now you are trying to divide and concur rec guys by stirring the buoy gear pot.

I will state my opinions now on buoy gear so there is no confusion later.

1.I am for buoy gear
2.I think there should be limit of buoy guys in any one area.
3.I think most rec guys and buoy guys now fishing have a good idea on how to fish together with out there being a problem.
4.Circle hooks will be mandatory for buoys soon.
5.We do need some commercial fishing in this area and buoy fishing is the cleanest way to do that.
6.Fact 1 LL set out front would cause more of a problem for the rec fleet then 20 buoy guys.

The BEAST · 03-21-2007, 05:46 PM

The buoy gear was here already, albeit only in very limited numbers. Why is that? Because it is a more acceptable way of fishing with the least amount of indiscriminate catch. We banned net fishing in Florida yet we still have commercial fisherman. They use bandit gear and rod/reel, why? Because it is a more acceptable way of fishing with the least amount of indiscriminate catch. All these methods are less effective than a LL, but it works in their favor, also. Generally the market doesn't glut and the wholesale prices remain at levels where they can make a decent living.

The commercial representative of the PLL's saw an opportunity to play a trump card on behalf of the "Woe is me" LL fleet. BFWA and BB-Pro (one in the same) tried to start a pitty party, citing exclusion. The only problem is that the ploy backfired on them. The commercial sector IS recognized in the "zone". The buck simply stopped in the methods as to which you can fish the area. There is nothing wrong with commercial fishing with exceptions as to gear type, quantity of gear used, and efficient vessels to deploy that gear which will sustain its effectiveness. It is not like this has not happened in other arenas in the water world. The rec fisherman are subject to constant restrictions as to allowable gear, no motor zones, no fish zones, no lobster/diving zones, closed seasons, constant size and bag limit changes, so on and so forth. Hell, jet skiers are no longer allowed in the S. Biscayne Bay (national park) as well as many, many, other places. If we must abide by conservation measures and restrictions constantly, what kind of thinking does the BWFA and BB-Pro have, that they feel a sovreign right to anything, especially being a group who has a history of ruination. We abolished market hunting in the early 1900's. State freshwater divisions throughout the country abolished commercial catfish trotlines and the sale of freshwater species. All these had a history of depleting a species. Recreational fisherman and hunters are allowed to hunt and fish and bag their quarry but NOWHERE was the commercial market hunter and trotliner allowed to resume. These resources are for ALL Americans, not a select few who want to make money, and abuse it, at the expense of the majority of Americans.

Vinnie, Please explain to me why your group of commercial fisherman feel they are exempt from change? Damn, I must be really stupid, because I still don't see your point.

BWFA wanting into the zone again doesn't have anything to do with rights to fish, ICCAT quotas, and the miriad of other BS they are handing the NMFS. Why are most targeting Tuna instead of Swordfish if they are worried about a "quota" they have admitted, repeatedly, that they will never reach again. It is all about economics. Bald faced excuses and lies to requisition a good fishery, with the most desirable product, close to port. They would require less fuel, no vessel upgrades, less time at sea, and all this equals to more PROFIT. They could care less as their past track records have shown. The only thing they know is, get it while the getting is good then move on when it isn't any longer. BB-Pro did it himself! What do they have to lose if they get shoved out, after another stock collapse? Nothing, because they are already out there dealing with it now, and fishing for tuna instead of swordfish. Trying to reach this illustrious quota? MY AZZ!!!

It's hard to break that mentality. As the old commercial salt told me, "If it gets 35 cents p/lb, KILL IT!"

Capt. Jim
The BEAST

Gaitor · 03-21-2007, 06:13 PM

Still on target Jim!

Fishalways · 03-21-2007, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The BEAST

If we must abide by conservation measures and restrictions constantly, what kind of thinking does the BWFA and BB-Pro have, that they feel a sovreign right to anything, especially being a group who has a history of ruination. We abolished market hunting in the early 1900's. State freshwater divisions throughout the country abolished commercial catfish trotlines and the sale of freshwater species. All these had a history of depleting a species. Recreational fisherman and hunters are allowed to hunt and fish and bag their quarry but NOWHERE was the commercial market hunter and trotliner allowed to resume. These resources are for ALL Americans, not a select few who want to make money, and abuse it, at the expense of the majority of Americans.
Capt. Jim
The BEAST

Thank you thank you thank you!!!!!

I have been saying the exact same thing since I have found this forum.

No one has an absolute right to any natural resource in this country and anyone who says they CANNOT CLOSE OUT AN INDUSTRY FROM A NATURAL RESOURCE IS DEAD WRONG.

From my perspective the ulimate position everyone should be taking, both rec and com, is to have the US opt out of the ICCAT treaties and organizations.

That way we, as a country, can regulate the industry as we see fit, not as the global community see's fit.

Just to follow up my point, if anyone thinks I am saying all commercials should be eliminated you are mistaken. I have always said there can be room for both but both sides have to be restricted. It only seems that the rec guys get the restrictions and the commercial guys want it all.

So, lets get out of ICCAT and run it our way for ourselves.

Let the bashing begin.

The BEAST · 03-21-2007, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip Smith

Beast: do you attend the Swordfish Club"s meeting? Would love to have you there.

Skip,

No, I did attend the forum at the Broward Co. Library when all this hit the fan. Maybe sometime, but it is quite a jaunt during rush hour from just north of Homestead.

Capt. Jim
The BEAST

Skip Smith · 03-21-2007, 07:30 PM

I thought I could get you and Vinny to discuss a few things at one meeting and I could get the night off.

Can't blame you for not wanting to drive.

I just hope, people like you write a letter to NMFS and our politicians . I know it would make too much sense, but it helps.

Thanks,
Skip

03-21-2007, 12:46 PM	#41 (permalink)
Tuna Devil Grander Join Date: Nov 2005 Occupation: Pirate Posts: 1,834	And you do put up a good fight Eric. __________________ What do you mean I'm not kind? I'm just not your kind.

03-21-2007, 12:50 PM	#43 (permalink)
Tuna Devil Grander Join Date: Nov 2005 Occupation: Pirate Posts: 1,834	Of course they will care. Right now it is the lesser of two evils (Just an expression, I do not think either fishery is evil). __________________ What do you mean I'm not kind? I'm just not your kind.

03-21-2007, 12:58 PM	#45 (permalink)
quack quack Old Salt Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: lake worth Best Catch: 25lb codfish 5 yrs old first hanger Posts: 4,456	I don't think wevils are evils eithers __________________ Either we can be a part of the solution or we can be the victims of a decision.

03-21-2007, 01:36 PM	#47 (permalink)
quack quack Old Salt Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: lake worth Best Catch: 25lb codfish 5 yrs old first hanger Posts: 4,456	I just contacted a local paper writer so hopefull he will put some press on this. If any one knows a reporter or writer give them a call or email asap.Lets send some emails to the local news stations.I am swapped so if some one could do this for me it would be great.If they would like they can call me at 561-315-8881. __________________ Either we can be a part of the solution or we can be the victims of a decision.

03-21-2007, 01:48 PM	#48 (permalink)
Tuna Devil Grander Join Date: Nov 2005 Occupation: Pirate Posts: 1,834	Can you take medication for being swapped? __________________ What do you mean I'm not kind? I'm just not your kind.

03-21-2007, 12:46 PM	#42 (permalink)
Broadbill Hooked Up Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ft. Pierce, Fl Posts: 327	You may be right TD but if because of buoy gear LLers are kept out I do not think guys will bitch about buoys that much.But if they do then I will fight for the buoy guys. Vinnie is right. You might not care about the three buoy guys now, but what if there ends up being twenty boats out there all the time doing it? Will you guys care then?

03-21-2007, 01:25 PM	#46 (permalink)
The BEAST Charter Captain Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Miami/upper Keys Boat: 2007 WorldCat 330TE / 300 Suzuki's Best Catch: every catch is my best catch Occupation: charter captain Posts: 796	Vinnie, If the other countries are standing outside the 200 mile EEZ and catching their quota and requesting portions of ours, what is the problem with our commercial guys? They can fish most anywhere inside the EEZ and yet they still want in the closed zone. Break clean for once, please! It's the ease at which they could, once again, clobber the more desirable, 60-90# cores. This is so sad that you continue to try and tell us that killing more fish in our own pond, as you put it, saves more fish. Damn, I must be stupid, that I can't see your logic! A sadder point is that BWFA has you so wrapped up that you would sacrifice days like you recently had with you son, for the sake of them, the few. Maybe it is that you would rather your son be a Sword Captain on a PLL and you can relive your life vicariously through him. Either way it is SAD. We understand that this is not solely OUR ocean. Your point of saving the pond and losing the ocean is assinnine. We will never have control of the high seas. Do you think that the recreational presence could actually compare to 13 PLL's? You have stated earlier this year that the rec sector can't possibly contribute enough to the quota to be effective and that is why we need the PLL's back in here to help make the quota. Now you say the rec fisherman is detremental to the fishery here catching all these small non-brood sized fish. Which is it? Do we make a difference or not? If we the rec fisherman are catching all non breeding fish what the hell are the PLL's going to be catching? Vinnie, do you serve syrup with your waffle? We compromised and showed good faith with the buoy guys. I have no problem with allowing commercial buoy fishing. I do have a problem with all the buoy fisherman packing in to one area though. It would be extremely palatable if they would divide the closed zone up in sections and offer only so many buoy permits per sector. You and your cronies figured if you got more buoy influence in here it would lay the tracks for the PLL's. Best laid plans do go awry! You are trying to use this point now to get backing from a commercial sector which also knows that the PLL's could actually mean the loss of their own business. If there are no fish again they are DONE. They are not stupid people. I have lived many years now and know all to well how this works. If we cave in and allow the 13 PLL's in the upper and lower ends of the "zone" in a few months we will see the next argument from the remaining PLL's... Why is the area only opened only to a select few and not everyone? That is as plain as the nose on my face. I cite 2 old phrases... "give them an inch and they'll take a mile" and "once they get their foot in the door..." We must remain steadfast in our goal to not let history repeat itself. Ron, Skip, QQ, and any others. Maybe we should contact the local news etc. and get ALL of the American public involved in our fight. I remember not too long ago when they tried to sneak in some PLL's under the guise of "research". Susan Cocking broke the news but it was too late. The day after they started fishing, one of the boats washed ashore, broken down, in Ft Lauderdale. When the story broke on the local news that evening, an informed public became very vocal. The "research" was immediately haulted! Capt. Jim The BEAST

03-21-2007, 01:50 PM	#49 (permalink)
quack quack Old Salt Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: lake worth Best Catch: 25lb codfish 5 yrs old first hanger Posts: 4,456	See I told you I am messed up swapped swamped same thing only worse. __________________ Either we can be a part of the solution or we can be the victims of a decision.

03-21-2007, 01:58 PM	#50 (permalink)
Skip Smith Lines In Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Pompano bch, Fl Posts: 94	Florida Today (Melbourne) had a article in yesterday's paper. I sent it to the Ft. Laud and Miami outdoor writers and to marlin Magz. Beast: do you attend the Swordfish Club"s meeting? Would love to have you there.

03-21-2007, 02:02 PM	#51 (permalink)
quack quack Old Salt Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: lake worth Best Catch: 25lb codfish 5 yrs old first hanger Posts: 4,456	Thanks Skip Still contact as many people as you can guys send emails letters make calls.I think the wind is blowing for a reason.No excuses not to call or send emails __________________ Either we can be a part of the solution or we can be the victims of a decision.

03-21-2007, 02:13 PM	#52 (permalink)
swordstalker Hooked Up Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Deerfield Beach, FL Boat: 36 Yellowfin "Nauti Girl" Best Catch: My Wife Occupation: Self Employed Posts: 384	Here's the link to the Florida Today article.... Bill Sargent

03-21-2007, 02:20 PM	#53 (permalink)
quack quack Old Salt Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: lake worth Best Catch: 25lb codfish 5 yrs old first hanger Posts: 4,456	Thanks Mark __________________ Either we can be a part of the solution or we can be the victims of a decision.

03-21-2007, 02:31 PM	#54 (permalink)
Broadbill-Pro Grander Join Date: Jan 2006 Best Catch: When I look at a Commercial Fishing Vessel I see 300 million Americans and you only see the Crew Posts: 1,219	The idea of sacrificing the buoys has already been on the table since the last meeting in FTL. With the influence that recs have I would not be surprised if they are able to fend off the EFP's, at that point they will turn on the buoy fisherman as predicted. QQ and Ron will be at each other as I believe one of them is honorable. I already see the writing on the wall, ummmm I think buoys are OK if there's not too many of them, if they set east of the 50, if the boats are fast enough. The slaying of that industry is in the making as soon as the LL issue is resolved.

03-21-2007, 02:48 PM	#55 (permalink)
quack quack Old Salt Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: lake worth Best Catch: 25lb codfish 5 yrs old first hanger Posts: 4,456	Well I hope you are calling me the honorable one But I think we both are.Now you are trying to divide and concur rec guys by stirring the buoy gear pot. I will state my opinions now on buoy gear so there is no confusion later. 1.I am for buoy gear 2.I think there should be limit of buoy guys in any one area. 3.I think most rec guys and buoy guys now fishing have a good idea on how to fish together with out there being a problem. 4.Circle hooks will be mandatory for buoys soon. 5.We do need some commercial fishing in this area and buoy fishing is the cleanest way to do that. 6.Fact 1 LL set out front would cause more of a problem for the rec fleet then 20 buoy guys. __________________ Either we can be a part of the solution or we can be the victims of a decision.

03-21-2007, 05:46 PM	#56 (permalink)
The BEAST Charter Captain Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Miami/upper Keys Boat: 2007 WorldCat 330TE / 300 Suzuki's Best Catch: every catch is my best catch Occupation: charter captain Posts: 796	The buoy gear was here already, albeit only in very limited numbers. Why is that? Because it is a more acceptable way of fishing with the least amount of indiscriminate catch. We banned net fishing in Florida yet we still have commercial fisherman. They use bandit gear and rod/reel, why? Because it is a more acceptable way of fishing with the least amount of indiscriminate catch. All these methods are less effective than a LL, but it works in their favor, also. Generally the market doesn't glut and the wholesale prices remain at levels where they can make a decent living. The commercial representative of the PLL's saw an opportunity to play a trump card on behalf of the "Woe is me" LL fleet. BFWA and BB-Pro (one in the same) tried to start a pitty party, citing exclusion. The only problem is that the ploy backfired on them. The commercial sector IS recognized in the "zone". The buck simply stopped in the methods as to which you can fish the area. There is nothing wrong with commercial fishing with exceptions as to gear type, quantity of gear used, and efficient vessels to deploy that gear which will sustain its effectiveness. It is not like this has not happened in other arenas in the water world. The rec fisherman are subject to constant restrictions as to allowable gear, no motor zones, no fish zones, no lobster/diving zones, closed seasons, constant size and bag limit changes, so on and so forth. Hell, jet skiers are no longer allowed in the S. Biscayne Bay (national park) as well as many, many, other places. If we must abide by conservation measures and restrictions constantly, what kind of thinking does the BWFA and BB-Pro have, that they feel a sovreign right to anything, especially being a group who has a history of ruination. We abolished market hunting in the early 1900's. State freshwater divisions throughout the country abolished commercial catfish trotlines and the sale of freshwater species. All these had a history of depleting a species. Recreational fisherman and hunters are allowed to hunt and fish and bag their quarry but NOWHERE was the commercial market hunter and trotliner allowed to resume. These resources are for ALL Americans, not a select few who want to make money, and abuse it, at the expense of the majority of Americans. Vinnie, Please explain to me why your group of commercial fisherman feel they are exempt from change? Damn, I must be really stupid, because I still don't see your point. BWFA wanting into the zone again doesn't have anything to do with rights to fish, ICCAT quotas, and the miriad of other BS they are handing the NMFS. Why are most targeting Tuna instead of Swordfish if they are worried about a "quota" they have admitted, repeatedly, that they will never reach again. It is all about economics. Bald faced excuses and lies to requisition a good fishery, with the most desirable product, close to port. They would require less fuel, no vessel upgrades, less time at sea, and all this equals to more PROFIT. They could care less as their past track records have shown. The only thing they know is, get it while the getting is good then move on when it isn't any longer. BB-Pro did it himself! What do they have to lose if they get shoved out, after another stock collapse? Nothing, because they are already out there dealing with it now, and fishing for tuna instead of swordfish. Trying to reach this illustrious quota? MY AZZ!!! It's hard to break that mentality. As the old commercial salt told me, "If it gets 35 cents p/lb, KILL IT!" Capt. Jim The BEAST

03-21-2007, 06:13 PM	#57 (permalink)
Gaitor Hooked Up Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Palm Beach Gardens,FL Boat: 25 ft HydraSports Best Catch: 150 lb Pacific Sail, 100 lb Tarpon from the surf Occupation: Old Retired Fart Posts: 558	Still on target Jim!

03-21-2007, 07:30 PM	#60 (permalink)
Skip Smith Lines In Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Pompano bch, Fl Posts: 94	I thought I could get you and Vinny to discuss a few things at one meeting and I could get the night off. Can't blame you for not wanting to drive. I just hope, people like you write a letter to NMFS and our politicians . I know it would make too much sense, but it helps. Thanks, Skip