WARNING ABOUT THE "DEAL"

[Broadbill-Pro]

Thanks reel life, that is how I thought it worked.

So to sum it up, a valid directed permit can not be used to catch in the closed area as a PLL, but that same permit can be used in the closed area if it is called a handline permit.

How long do you think it will take before 40 or 50 rec. fisherman buy those permits and handline with you guys. Like I said, at one time there were about 700 directed permits issued, what has happened to the other 560 or so?

I recently reviewed a list of permit holders, that list was as thick as a phone book. I do not know the status of them, but there was way more than 140. Why should there be a limit of 10 or so as Quack posted? Handlines were not invented or patented by the guys doing it now, if one can do it then all permit holders should be allowed. A better idea is none before it gets out of hand.

[reel life]

the permit does not change in name just the gear
and as for 40-50 rec ponying up the cheese don't hold your breath the going rate for a "decent" directed permit is over 10 G plus another few in up grades like saftey equipment the recs do not have to carry
and i agree if its good for 1 its good for all, but i do not think it will get out of hand with the price of the permit, fuel and the low price for the fish when the bite is on
can you forward me that list of permit holders
captainrayc@aol.com

[Broadbill-Pro]

I was looking for a specific permit and someone was kind enough to let me go through the list. That person is not in our area now.

I will not do the math in this forum for many reasons, but we could debate permit cost in regard to potential earnings.

[Broadbill]

I could see this becoming a big problem. With all the PLL permits still out (even if they haven't been used for a long time) they can be sold or put back in use as bouy gear pemits. $10,000 isn't $hit. That's about 25 fish and the permit is paid for. BBPro isn't that permit good for the sale of tuna, dolphin etc. as well?

[Colonel Klink]

And longlines being able to start off of Ft. Pierce is not something anyone can see as a problem? What I seem to see going on here is an excellent job of divide an conquer. The "deal" basically is a ploy by Bluewater Fishermans Association (the one and only longline lobbying group). The cliff notes version of the deal is basically this. BFA is saying that they will support the push to eliminate bouy gear in this closed to PLLs zone,and help lobby NMFS to release more swordfish sale permits.All this for the single one time payment of letting us shave off areas in the north and south part of the closed zones.The north boundary ending in Ft. Pierce. They say they will put this in writing. However, who is to say that the next assault won't be on the remaining area? Isn't it already in writing that this is an area closed to PLLs? Putting something in writing seems to mean less and less these days. This REALLY effects us up this way,Broadbill. This is not meant to be a slam towards you or anyone. I met all of you up in Ft. Pierce at the HMS hearing,and was really impressed with your group of guys. I respect your right to dislike the bouy gear. If it gets out of hand, I will also agree with your stance.
If this is coming off as a rant, I apologize. I guess I am starting to reach critical mass concerning the spread of misinformation. Everyone thinks that the Florida Straights is going to be carpeted with bouy gear. It has had 4 years to do so,and still has not.You need nearly perfect weather to set the gear.That in itself is a limiting factor. There are a limited amount of permits;another one.Not including the boat,it costs about 20-30K to get a permit and outfit the boat with the required safety gear. :shock:
Anyone remember the "Whitewater" experiment? One of the largest,best equipped longline boats in the American fleet came down one winter and was going to get rich setting bouy gear.They set out 58 beeper bouys,each with 2 hooks.The results? A dismal failure.They lost money big time.The boat sat at Ft. Pierce terminal for a couple of weeks without a crew because they all walked off after making nothing for months.As Ollie and I have proven, the way to make money doing this is to keep the operation small. Small fuel efficient boats,with a limited # of bouys in the water to look after.This is the business model that works,and a fuel keeps going up it will stay that way.
We all seriously need to wake up and face the real threats currently facing our waters.As Ben Franklin said just before the Revolutionary War,"We can all hang together,or we can all hang seperately".

"My name is Tim Palmer,and I approve of this message"

[RiskTaker]

Tim:

Thanks for that post. Some good points made.

Capt. Jim "The Beast", on the other thread was trying to hang me out to dry because I had the balls to possibly consider the balls. But only in his mind. We need to have a clear understanding of what the lower impact commercial fisherman is all about. Such that the recreational fisherman's perpective is not in the clouds.

Ben Franklin did coin a few good phases didn't he. I like some of the newer ones of today's generation. A very eloquent one from a widely recognized Redneck: "I can do this all day." and let's "Get'er done". :lol:

I would like to say for the record. I am against the idea of enabling the PLLs to box the corners with Longline gear to encroach into the space of what we are calling the closed zones off Florida. As a consequence of that stance, IMO, I feel that some other considerations may become mandatory for consideration. I can feel my pulse and fog a mirror, so I do not think that I am dreaming. But at least one person thinks I am.

[Colonel Klink]

Well said as usual,RT. Thanks.

[Broadbill]

Tim, if I came across as having a problem with bouy gear I didn't mean to. I have no problem with a LIMITED number of bouy fisherman (such as yourself) permitted to fish these waters. In my above post I was referring to ex longline fisherman with PLL permits selling them to rec. fisherman so they can join in. As I stated I think this could be a problem. People who have held a PLL permit for a while that will never fish again can sell them for $10-20 G's and the new recipient can now bouy fish. Case in point= A friend of mine who's family had a large fleet of PLL boats still has a permit left, although not being used. He is going to sell it, and in fact it was offered to me. If I bought it I could legally join you! (I'm not however). Like BB Pro said above with all these permits still alive that could be troublesome. After reading your post I have changed my thinking a bit, like you said it has been 4 years and there's not many more out there. Although, with this recent ploy to increase catch and quota and the amount of newly aquired swordfisherman I think you will see more bouy guys. IMO.
Second, I think shaving off the North and South ends of the closed zone is a tremendous mistake. As I stated in another post, "you might as well open the whole closed zone if you are going to cut off all the fish from entering it." I sure hope they have better sense than this. It wouldn't take long at all to ruin this fishery if they were up in our area hammering all the fish in transit to the straights.

[Colonel Klink]

:thumleft:

[Captain Ollie]

Colonel, some excellent points :!:
Glad to have you back on here. :thumleft:

I myself had heard about the dismal failure of the "Whitewater" experiment, but I didn't remember enough of the details to post about it prior to Tim's mention.

I definitely have to concur with Tim here on the almost prohibitive costs of getting involved in the bouy gear fishery. If it was as easy to do as the rumor mill wants everyone to believe, then this area would have been SWAMPED with gear by now. Without a shadow of a doubt SMALLER is better in this case. This is apparently hard to understand unless you have first hand experience with it.

AND to answer your question, Boadbill the swordfish permit is not valid for the sale of dolphin and tuna. The tuna permit is a seperate entity in itself but MUST be held in conjunction with either a directed or incidental shark permit for the swordfish permit to be legal. You MUST have all 3 of those permits for the swordfish permit to be valid. In order to legally sell dolphin you must have yet another paper known as a dolphin/wahoo permit. It has nothing to do with the swordfish permit "package."

[hannaman]

As Ollie and I have proven, the way to make money doing this is to keep the operation small. Small fuel efficient boats,with a limited # of bouys in the water to look after.This is the business model that works,and a fuel keeps going up it will stay that way.



I don't foresee a problem with the above at all. This way should be very effective not only in keeping our quota up but also a better way to manage the release of pups. Too much gear in the water makes room to kill the pups. How can you manage over 30 buoys quick enough to successfully release small fish, let alone LL gear?
I have already talked with 1 guy who is very successful managing only 5 bouys aggressively and successfully.
Not to mention the handline battle, gotta love it.

[quack quack]

Blue water wanted mainly just rec support on increasing bycatch limits for tuna llers and squid trawlers.They would coincide the opening of the south and move the north zone opening request farther north than FT pierce. :shock: :shock: The buoy challenge was only brought up by rec guys :shock: BWA mostly just wanted help with increases in bycatch.If another deal is reached I think we may be giving up more than BWA was even asking for :???: