WARNING ABOUT THE "DEAL"

[Broadbill-Pro]

who does unidentified gear belong to?

numbers written is the rule.

unattended, unidentified gear, is ghost gear. can not assume a vessel 3/4 a mile away is attending a bouy. if you see a vessel in your spread, identify yourself and your property.

or risk losing it.

[LIGHTINING STRYKER]

RECREATIONAL FISHING OF BOUY GEAR IS LEGAL AS OF TODAY THESE RECS. ARE NOY REQUIRED TO PUT NUMBERS ON THERE GEAR.

[LIGHTINING STRYKER]

SIR if you pull my gear while i am watchng it i will definatly identify myself.Unfortunatly most people don"t know how to I.D. a comm. vessel if i have my red light on you are required by law to clear out of my way and if i am in federal water this is a federal violation and is patroled by homeland security.I repeat i would advise do not pull other peoples gear.

[Broadbill-Pro]

If I come accross unidentified gear, I will certainly remove it from the ocean. Identify yourself, your property and there will be no room for conflict.

It is not illegal to remove unidentified/unattended fishing gear from the ocean.

If you are watching then I assume it is attended if you choose not to identfy yourself then I own another harpoon ball

[LIGHTINING STRYKER]

IF i pull up to you, an you have my gear in your hands i will assume you are a thief. An treat you the same way a lobster fisherman deals with a poacher pulling his traps.

[RiskTaker]

Originally Posted by reel life

BBpro if you hold a valid permit you can still fish the straights just not with PLL
there is no need for more permits to fish the area just do as others have done and pony up the cheese and buy one from somebody not using it

Vinnie:
That is exactly what I thought, at least the first part of the thought. Do commercially licensed anglers not now have the authorization to fish these closed zones with Buoy gear now? Perhaps maybe just the profit margins are not where they need to be considering the risk/reward or simply, income/expense ratios.

I do not know all of the history and regulations, so I am willing to be better informed if need be. But to answer your question. If the previous LLers got a "package deal to exit" the closed zones, no special treatment. If they want to re-enter, should renewed opportunities be presented, perhaps that experience should be considered, as a value-added qualification, but not a requirement to obtain, a fresh license.

I may think a little bit differently because I have a different perspective and too because I am relatively new to this scene. One of my thoughts is a "use it or lose it" mentality. From what I understand existing permits can be sold, they can also be devalued by infractions of the regulations, etc. (I recognize that the FCC has done it in the Telecom industry, but that does not make it right: ie. a license sold to the highest bidder.) I do not agree with this principle. Rather, I could envision licenses being granted at a reasonable standard application rate, after all it is the government issuing them for the benefit of the people, at the end of the day. The service is provided by those that are willing to service it: but they will be served injustice to pay up at elevated prices.

If the existing license holders have them available, they need to be used. Obviously, there should not be any reach goal of performance measures, simply a nominal minimum usage. If the year end tallies are way below, the year over year or trending lines, then perhaps a few new licenses be granted. But new license issues should not be transferable, they should be used, and if performance falters within 24-36 months, I think a calendar year is too short to measure in a natural rhythmn, that license could be non-renewed and another opportunity opened up. This may be a bit of a bold statement but it is very similar to how business gets done today. Sometimes you have to evaluate the players: the performers can continue on but the slackers, can be helped to perform better, then if that doesn't work, a little bit of new blood is brought into the scene.

These are just a few thoughts to stimulate the debate. We must have a very good plan and sometimes we must think outside the box in order to move to the next level. Please let me know what you think.

[Broadbill-Pro]

Originally Posted by LIGHTINING STRYKER

IF i pull up to you, an you have my gear in your hands i will assume you are a thief. An treat you the same way a lobster fisherman deals with a poacher pulling his traps.

Lobster traps are numbered and/or marked. I guess we will work it out if the time comes...

[Broadbill-Pro]

RT,

I am probably a bit behind on the all the permit issues.

I do not believe that previous permit holders that sold out should get any priority, such as myself.

I will give you an example of permit regulations. When I left the North Atlantic in 1990 I had a valid permit, while in the Pacific and 5 years after the vessel was sold (I did not sell the permit with the boat) I retained that permit by sending in no-catch reports every month. For about 12 years not a single fish was recorded on that permit, yet it was still valid and is being used today in the North Atlantic.

[The BEAST]

Originally Posted by RiskTaker

Capt. Jim:

I have labelled you as a "commercial" fisherman due to the fact that you have a charter boat business, from what I have read/understand about you. Therefore when you are taking clients out, not your personal boating trips, you are a hired Charter/Headboat, which makes money by catching fish.

A fool and his Swordfish are soon parted! When I take out "clients they are recreational fisherman. I sell a service by hiring out my boat, equiptment, and myself. The same thing you do every time someone greases your palm with gas money.

Have you ever heard the old saying " Divide and conquer." I am sitting here watching this unfold. The division of the opposition and even scare tactics. Small groups have no pull, no clout. Are you so blind that you would want to seperate the charter captains from the rec fisherman, now? You are just making it easier and easier for them to slide in the back door.

I didn't hear anyone calling Bouncer, Dean, and Ray "commercial" fisherman while they were up there trying to save your recreational butt. Don't be a schlub, you need all the help you can get. To alienate another group from your cause will be your downfall.

Capt. Jim
The BEAST

[Daytripper]

Risk taker you are truly wrong by calling charter boat business a commercial fishermen. Just plan wrong. Second, If we would close the lips about the swordfish catches and show that sword catches are low then this would not be going on. Third us as fishermen, rec. and charter are all rolling in roses right now just as a commercial fishermen would be because of the fish that we are killing right now. You really want to protect something right now? let the fish go no matter how big it is. Be a true sportsmen and call in how big and how many swords you let go on that perfect night and not how many you killed. Nothing can beat several sailfish and a swordfish released all in the sameday. And if and when LL come in and start fishing at least I can say I did my part with releasing the swords. Anyways my 2 cents, not that it matters. By the way what kind of tackle, baits, lights, boat, gaffs, line, do you use? Do you fish at night or daytime for the swords? How deep do you fish the deepest baits? Live bait or dead baits? Small squid or large squid? How many of you fish kites for swords? sorry got carried away.

[RiskTaker]

No sir eeh:

I beg to differ with you once again on that part, Capt. Jim.

I really want the recreational anglers, the Charter/Headboats to unite in a universal cause. ( I might even be so bold to think that there is space for a few commercial buoy ball guys, with the big cojones) to join in on the same line dance, in limited measure.

If you think I am trying to divide, you completely do not understand me! I am merely trying to point out differing objectives and points of view. Once we can recognize that, at face value, we then can see ourselves for who we are, without facades, and try to work together from differing vantage points, to maintain a robust and sustainable swordfishery. (I sincerely hope that I can pass that legacy to my grandchildren's-grandchildren.) I do not want to ruin it, for many reasons. So if you think I am wrong please prove your points: I will even help to crunch the numbers if you so desire. The wonderful thing about data is that it contains the truth, it is up to us to analyze it to verify what the truth is. So whenever data is hidden from us, so is the truth. We should work together to get the data.

If your take away from this, is divideness, we are out of touch. (Sorry if that is the way you interpret it: my patience too, is confounded.)

Clearly, I do not want to shun the Commercial buoy ball anglers: because that could possibly be a real concession that we may have to come to terms with.

Just as an FYI - I am a totally recreational fisherman. I have caught swordfish and I do not sell them. I want the Florida economy to be robust with "many hook-up" opportunities as Ellen so eloquently coined the phrase. But we cannot simply ignore the "limited and fair" commercial opportunities, and think about only recreational interests. Seems like I have heard phrase somewhere else before.

Captain Jim, I believe that many people refer to the Bible often for advice; however, I also believe that the middle eastern idealology has not moved forward very much in the past 1000 years or more either. Sorry, take no offense, but think about it for a moment. We blame others, but if our belief system relies on the same roots: should we not also look into the mirror and see where our faults lay?

[Nightfighter]

Probably a good way to look at it is the Charter Fleet provide a service to the “Rec. guys/anglers” in their quest to catch swordfish. Thus their mindset concerning swordfish, in theory, is just like “Rec guys” they want there to be plenty of swordfish so their anglers will keep coming back. They make money from the service they provide to the recreational anglers, not the sale of swordfish meat.

[The BEAST]

Nightfighter,

Nicely put, simple and straight to the point.

Thank God (oops, biblical reference) I'm going to N.Carolina for a week to fish a tournament.

Get that quota! Catch'em up!

Capt. Jim
The BEAST

[LIGHTINING STRYKER]

BB i cant belive you are telling people to break the law.How would the recreational fisherman feel if the few commercial fishermen fishing out front started to drive up to there balloons an pulling them because they are not marked.Or driving through your spread because the law says they have right of way.I guess the way you look at it if you pulled up to my truck in a parking lot an saw bouy gear you would put it in your truck if i was not there to protect it.Your are a joke you rant an rave on this site daily writing foot long posts that are full of B.S. if you are out there pulling peoples gear you are no different then the theifs and crackheads robbing people on the streets.Just because you post 10 times a day does not qualify you exspert.I am looking forward to meeting you with gear in your hands.You should read the law on this subject.

[RiskTaker]

Good luck in NC Capt. Jim,

If you feel like a grandpa, I am still listening; however, I have my own opinion.

It is "wise crackers" like you , that are still one generation ahead, of where we are today, to still plead the path of where we need to be.

Your stance, reminds me of my grand Daddy (Born and raised in Louisiana), and that brings a lot of tears to my eyes, because he was one exceptional man, and so are you, even if anybody likes you or not. Cést la vie. (You can certainly refer to Biblical references if you choose, just look how effective they are. Even the Pope has excellent luck using ancient manuscripts to convey present thoughts. You just can't win for losing, can you?

Therefore we should think about it properly. Use all of past knowledge, present knowledge, and formulate it for present/future execution.

Capt. Jim. : Anything you say, and say it well, could be used, in your favor, or not. It certainly seems like you can do it with me. However, ultra conservation does not help unite anyone; it only makes you a desolate island.

What are you in favor of catching anyway? Fresh seared tuna sounds so much better than fresh kingfish.

Capt. Jim, I think we will be sitting on the side for a few days, due to the brisk winds. Maybe you can pick up our slack. (Got ice?) I believe the rec. anglers will catch few, if any, swordfish this week. Just imagine if they are moving through. Oh, the atmosphere. Pass me your trident please, so I can stick myself too. I think I am done here. Time for breakfast: waffles sound good. :lol:

[Broadbill-Pro]

LS,

I don't need you telling me about whats legal or illegal in regard to free floating fishing gear.

A situation exists with the illegal selling of swordfish in South Florida, thats one of my problems with bouy gear in this area and the sole reason I am being a d#ck head about this.

I know first hand about having gear and fish stolen, mostly by recreational fisherman.

If you are catching and selling your fish legally, you should not have a problem with gear enforcement. I know the legal guys do not want anyone pulling up on their bouys and the idea of taking "abandoned" gear will cause conflicts, but the scare you guys are trying to install with this Homeland Security, Federal Offense BS only holds water with Federally Licensed Commercial vessels.

I sat 60nm from my end bouy every night, it was marked as my property. I did not worry about it. Your examples of balloons does not apply, they are attached to the vessel.

[Colonel Klink]

Well,at least we have some good news.It looks as if the "recreational" bouy gear guys have until Oct. 31 to either find a permit or switch back to rod and reel.The final rules in the HMS plan that has been in the works for the last 18 months go into effect concerning gear Nov. 1. Up my way on the north drift,the majority of the strobes people have been seeing have belonged to unlicensed commercial fisherman,and the law enforcement agencies have had their hands tied to do anything about it.One guy has been particularly blatent about how there was no law saying he couldn't,and actually has been flaunting about how many fish he has caught,even though most of it is lies.Idiots like this really incense people like Ollie and I who do everything within the law.We report our fish,we sell our fish only to authorized dealers,and we pay taxes on what we earn.I understand alot of people don't like the bouy gear;it is your opinion and you have a right to it.However,bouy gear is LEGAL for those of us with a permit.Lets get back to the real issues at hand,and try to keep the PLLs out of the Straights.

[RiskTaker]

Good Post, Colonel.

It is needed to loosen the grid lock.

[Broadbill-Pro]

Colonel, That is good news.

Can all previous LL permits be converted to handline permits? I'm fairly certain they can? I am not sure how many are active at the moment, but I know that there were about 700 issued. Thats a lot of handlines if only 5% are converted.

How many specific handline permits exist? I read where Ollie said 4? That's him, you, I assume Lighting Stryker since he is putting in his 2 cents? It would be helpful if the names of those legal vessel were indentified.

[reel life]

to answer your question if you have a valid permit you can fish the straights and sell your fish to proper dealers. how many fish you can take depends on the type of permit you carry.
styker has the permits to do just that its called a directed permit and we are currently rigging it to drop gear
and i might be wrong but there is around 140 active permits with most of them submitting no activity at this time
so i say again if you want to fish and sell fish buy out a PLL, no new permits