NMFS Meeting recap

[Nick C]

Learned a ton tonight about the quota system and what we as rec. anglers need to do to maintain and upgrade our swordfish population. Great talks by Bouncer, Dean Panos, Ray Roser, Quackers, and the Billfish foundation lady.

Also cool to see/meet all my sword ideals... Ray Roser, Dean, Ollie, Drew, etc... cool deal! Also met Jr.!!!

Thanks to all who showed up and to those who spoke

[Relentless33]

Good meeting you Nick

Great speakers and great information to be shared and learned.

Good to see you Quack hephephep



REPORT YOUR FISH, IT HELPS ALL OF US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Nick C]

Bouncer and QQ came up with a good idea... hopefully we can do something like that... Report your fishes!!!

[Relentless33]

Bouncer had GREAT ideas on the fishery. Looking forward to meeting him sometime. (There we go Tek, not a fairy post :lol: )

[Flatsfish B]

IMO the all the meeting acomplished is that most rec guys hate commercial guys and hate bouy gear. So really nothing was acomplished. The first page of the hand out read "what to do to reach our quota" and everyone seemed to just talk about bouy gear and commercial fisherman.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but to me it seems like if we dont hit quota someone else will. And by the 30% we are at I DO NOT think REC guys can even make up half the tonnage we need.

I am a 100% recreational fisherman but to me it seems like we need more bouy/hand line guys. I don't want to bring in any LLer's. I just think all these people bashing bouy gear is going to hurt us in the end.
You didn't hear anyone complaining about how the rec guys set up on top of eachother, and how guys have had there long jugs ran over by other rec fisherman etc.

Ok off my soap box... Nice to meet BBpro, Risktaker, Capt. Ollie, Final points brother (sorry forgot your name)

[Relentless33]

I missed out on you, RT and Ollie lol

[Momentum]

Final Point's brother = Kevin.

[Flatsfish B]

Originally Posted by Relentless33

I missed out on you, RT and Ollie lol

Yea Jr, I saw you i just was already seated, Nick said he went to say hi, i was 2 seats from nick.

[Relentless33]

Yea, we met up. I sat with Ray (Just2Fish) Seemed like a great guy









Yes Tek, that's a fairy

[Captain Ollie]

Yes it was great to meet the people I did meet....without going into detail....you know who you were. Its always surprising to connect a face to the screenname and see your expectations were completely wrong.

That being said........if I had realized that this was going to turn into a bouy bashing session I would have taken the time to prepare a statement to read. As it was I could not do anything but sit there and quietly fester. I can't quite get up in front of a large group of people when I'm a little tweaked and put my thoughts into a clear statement.

Despite what anyone may think.....good meeting......bad meeting.....I think its largely a moot question.
THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THE MEETING WAS TO SUGGEST WAYS THE US MAY TAKE ITS QUOTA AND NOT LOSE OUT ON ITS BARGAINING POWER WITH ICCAT.
I don't recall hearing to many suggestions that would have any impact on the question at hand...I heard the usual no commercial this and no commercial that and keep everything closed forever and we recs spend more money so its only right that we have exclusive rights to this fishery. Well I have news for you...thats not really what they want to hear. They've been there and done that plenty of times.

And ladies and gentlemen as for Bouncers statement of hearing this "young guy" in the tackle shop bragging about how he had his best night and caught like 17 fish and lost half his gear doing it. I happen to know who that was. Thats a goddamn lie!! You got some nerve!!!!! The story was more like they lost half the fish (busted leaders)not the gear!!!!

Here is my suggestion for the whole issue. I heard a lot of talk of how important this area is as a spawning area and juvenile fish. If the area is just that sensitive there is only one right thing to do.........

SHUT THE WHOLE AREA DOWN PERIOD!!!!! :shock:
NO COMMERCIAL AND NO RECREATIONAL EITHER!!!! NADA!!!

Sucks doesn't it??? But thats the only "fair and equitable" solution to the problem as I see it. Lets do everything possible to protect this area. Using the amount of money spent to justify any one user group exclusive access to a resource is ridiculous.

Furthermore I myself have not had one altercation or entanglement with my gear and anyones rod and reel gear. I have on numerous occasions pulled some of it or quit setting when I thought it would interfere with anyone elses fishing. I have thus far only lost one bouy set up that went to the great beyond when a freighter ran it down. I have had far more problems when I was just fishing rods on weekends. Long ballon cut off by boats running to close. People set up so close they drifted right into my spread.....funny but I didn't hear any bitching about that.

The sad part in all of this is that its literally impossible for the US to make its quota. Look at the numbers.....its not gonna happen. I don't care how many fish the recs report.......amnesty or not (what a f-ing joke of a suggestion that was)we are talking METRIC TONS here people!!!! Lets hope the folks at NMFS have some damn good negotiators come ICCAT time.

[Captain Ollie]

Hey Relentless I was looking forward to meeting you (I did see you though) but never got a chance. I was sitting right in front and one seat to the left of the projector. You may have noticed when I didn't stand up when "the question" was asked.

[Relentless33]

I did not see you when Boyle made that point. I saw one guy stay sitting and he was the guy that got up and spoke for the LL's. I'll meet you sometime though

[just2fish]

CO you were sitting next to the turtle...

[Broadbill]

I can't agree that nothing was accomplished. The meeting might not have followed the agenda, but there is know doubt the NMF'S has a strong understanding of recreational support in South and Central Florida. If nothing else was accomplished, it was still well worth the trip. By them seeing that many anglers show up, they most likely have a better understanding of the economic impact we have.

Capt Ollie
SHUT THE WHOLE AREA DOWN PERIOD????????
Do you really think this is a logical statement? Obviously we have the ability by rod and reel fishing to RELEASE small fish and keep a few larger ones here and there to eat (and some don't even do that). Do you really think that is detrimental to the fishery? That would be like shutting the entire river down completely to fishing durring the net ban instead of just banning nets. The Indian River is also a breeding and spawning ground for many species. It is only recreationally fished now and the reslults have been tremendous. Rod and reel rec. fisherman have the ability to conserve and regulate catch. Do you think a gillnet or a longline has this capibility? Your not comparing apples to apples.

[Flatsfish B]

Originally Posted by Broadbill

. Rod and reel rec. fisherman have the ability to conserve and regulate catch. Do you think a gillnet or a longline has this capibility? Your not comparing apples to apples.

No, but i believe he is saying bouy fisherman do?

ok great, a lot of support, but only 1 freakin person tried to answer there question. Other then that all they got was dont open the close zone. Even if they dont open the close zone...don't you think having a chinese ll fleet just north or south of the zone will hurt us?

[Fishalways]

Just want to put my .02 in.

One - there are lots of industries that are open to one use group and closed to others. Take the logging industry for example. Do you think a private logger could go onto public lands that are regulated by the goverment and harvested by a corporation? There are plenty of precedents to closing a resource to one or more end users. Take a look at the deer industry. What deer industry? Exactly, in the early 20th century the deer were decimated to the point of near extinction. Recreational hunters took over the industry and rewrote the laws to eliminate the deer industry. The result is more deer now and an economy well beyond what a commercial deer harvets every brought or could have brought in.

Two- I am still on the fence when it comes to bouys. I don't really equate them with long lines. However, there is definately a risk of lost gear and ghost gear with buoys. I would like to point out that the proposed regulations dont just restrict the number of bouys but it also retricts the number of hooks. Two hooks per bouy for 35 bouys. Thats 70 hook, period. If you have a guy, as I understood it, using three bouys on a single line its still limited to two hooks. If I am mistaken on this someone let me know. I can also see how this could be a foot in the door for longliners to get into the area though.

Three- As a solution to getting the US quota, why not keep the areas currently closed, and allow the commercial fishermen to use the same boats and gear that all the other countrys use. Lets let our commercials go to their territoies and catch in their areas. Why are we restricting the commercial guys when no other countries do it?

As an aside, was nice to meet you Quack Quack. Sorry I didnt get to meet any others but the wife was in a mood. YOu know how that is. And has anyone tried using Circle Hooks and what have your results been?

[Flatsfish B]

Fish always, nicely written...

The reason a lot of our LL fleet wants to fish here is they have small boats. A LL permit can only be tranfered to a boat of the same size and horsepower. So to them the 40-60' boats you heard of last night can not run to the grand bank safely.

As far as bouys go, no bouy guy can fish 35 bouys PERIOD 20 wouldn't even be realistic for the most part. But that is not something you or I can proove that is something we are told by the guys who do it and it is up to you to beleive or not. As far as loosing gear, i'm sure it can happen. But imo it is no worse then all of these fish stories where the line breaks over 50-a few hundred feet away from the hook. Isn't that causing the same thing in the end?

[quack quack]

Had a great time last night.I wish we had more answers for nmfs on how to improve the catch rate.

I wanted to meet a bunch more people but time did not allow.

I will post more later

[Fishalways]

Originally Posted by Flatsfish B

Fish always, nicely written...

The reason a lot of our LL fleet wants to fish here is they have small boats. A LL permit can only be tranfered to a boat of the same size and horsepower. So to them the 40-60' boats you heard of last night can not run to the grand bank safely.

As far as bouys go, no bouy guy can fish 35 bouys PERIOD 20 wouldn't even be realistic for the most part. But that is not something you or I can proove that is something we are told by the guys who do it and it is up to you to beleive or not. As far as loosing gear, i'm sure it can happen. But imo it is no worse then all of these fish stories where the line breaks over 50-a few hundred feet away from the hook. Isn't that causing the same thing in the end?

I guess what I'm asking is, why not allow the permits that are currently issued, to be upgraded to the same type and size of boats that the other countries are using. That would allow the LL's to expand their area of fishing without opening up the closed areas.

It seems that the fish are going to be caught regardless of what people think of the fishery itself. I have to say I don't think the fishery is recoverd. A 100# sword fish average, which is what I have gotten from all that I have seen and read, is not a sustainable yield.

It appears we have two issues to address.

One - keeping the US quota levels where there are and catching them so we are not forced to give them up to other countries.

Two - making the world realize the fishery is NOT recoverd and reducing the overall quota for ALL countries until the fishery is really recoverd.

[Broadbill]

I think even if they allowed our LL fleets to increase boat size (to compete with the larger foreign vessels) it still wouldn't happen due to economics. I can't imagine they would want to gather the money for a modern state of the art boat knowing the fishery isn't going to produce enough to cover expenses.

[quack quack]

The LLers want to upgrade there boats :shock: and can.The problem is if they let the LLers do it then all fisherys would want the same and that would be very bad.

[Broadbill-Pro]

It appears that handlines are going to be the sacrificial lamb that the recreational sector is willing to throw into the pot to say they are willing to contribute to the cause. In other words, give us what we want and you can have something we don't care about anyway. I do have to say I support the theory that if commercial LL is restricted in this area, handlines and possibly Charter fishing should be also. Is there a difference between being paid to kill a fish that will be eaten and being paid to let someone else kill a fish that will be eaten? Not an opinion, just a question????? Where do we cross the line in the commercial fishing sector?

I have been to many NMFS meetings going back to 1980 or so. This was without a doubt the most behaved group that I have experienced. Possibly due to the prewarning on this forum and the overall consenses that this area should remain closed. You guys should be applauded.

Ellen Peel was to the point and very imformative, I have gained new respect for TBF thru her, but I am not so naive to think she does not know her way around the negotiating table and how to get what she wants with that big smile.

Bouncer was full of energy, the story of giant killing, lost gear and broken gaffs reminds me that before we attempt to take on these fish we should be responsible enough to make sure we are able to harvest the fish we injure.

Skip and Bobby did well, I am jealous of their ability to reform =D> . I have to work on that (this ones for you Ron38 :thumright: )

Greg from Fishermans Best was actually able to draw applause and at the same time make the point that there has been a sacrifice in the recovery of this local fishery.

Rich from Bluewater was informative as well, including stating the size of the fish that are currently being harpooned off Canada.

Tommy Greene, 47 fish out of 50 hooks :shock: :^o all I can say!


It was great to meet many of the forum members and old faces that I have not seen in years. I was surprised to discover how many fisherman both rec and commercial read this BS. I think the last few weeks have been a great learning experience for all of us thru this forum.

I met Mike who runs this pony show, I have to say this is the most functional web site and I want to thank you again for maintaining it.

[Mike]

Nice meeting you guys last night. I'm happy with the turnout and the level of professionalism last night. We'll have to get together and fish one night...

[Verado06]

thanks for the summary boys. we couldnt make it.. new born in the family taking all our time.

[Tom L]

I attended the meeting last night and although I do not have a long history in this fishery or personal knowledge of "the way it used to be", the storyline was very well articulated by a number of well-prepared, and highly-credentialed speakers. The group as a whole was extremely "calm cool and collected" (with a few exceptions) and made a statement by the professional approach of both the Recs and the Comms who were in attendance.

The NMFS however, began the presentation with some factual information. To me, the purpose of that information was to prepare the audience for the "likely direction" that the fishery is going to take. It seemed that the underutilized quota issue is a "done deal" in their mind, and without elaborating too much, the NMFS was hinting that their real goal was to find a way to convince ICCAT that the US will increase the % they take from the allocated amount. I would imagine that if NMFS could show some hard factual evidence and a "proposal" to increase the catch to ICCAT, they could attend the bargaining sessions with much more ammunition and feel confident that the US total allocation would not be reduced. It didn't appear that the suggestions made last night offered up a "end all" proposal to help them do that. Near the end of the session, I was asking myself, would I prefer to have full-on LLrs back in, or accept some more buoy gear "experiments".........like, which would be the lesser of 2 evils. If we had to choose one, which would it be? just my obeservations, but it seems they need "something" to load their guns with....whether it be opening up part of our area, parts of other areas, or some other techniques that might get the number of tons landed up there....

[Whitewater]

All, I live up north and have greatly enjoy sword fishing a few times a year. Being unable to attend I just wanted to send a big Thanks to all that did.

[e-money]

Originally Posted by Flatsfish B

Fish always, nicely written...

The reason a lot of our LL fleet wants to fish here is they have small boats. A LL permit can only be tranfered to a boat of the same size and horsepower. So to them the 40-60' boats you heard of last night can not run to the grand bank safely.

As far as bouys go, no bouy guy can fish 35 bouys PERIOD 20 wouldn't even be realistic for the most part. But that is not something you or I can proove that is something we are told by the guys who do it and it is up to you to beleive or not. As far as loosing gear, i'm sure it can happen. But imo it is no worse then all of these fish stories where the line breaks over 50-a few hundred feet away from the hook. Isn't that causing the same thing in the end?

[quote]


To FlatsfishB:

Hey Barry, glad you were able to attend. While it may not be feasible for most boats to fish 35 buoys, we have seen some boats off Jupiter that can and apparently DO. Last week, we counted a total of over 55 buoys spread out over an approx 3.5 mile stretch. Unless two or more boats were possibly working the same line together?

I take NO issue w the handline gear, but vehemently oppose the idea of opening up new areas to longlining. I hope that we can come up with a
solution that will be mutually agreeable to the rec / commercial sectors. :

[pachi7tre]

Here's some info they handed out.




Just trying to upload some of this stuff so that people who weren't there know what was handed out.

[Beerman]

E$.......I have never seen that many??? You sure it just didnt look like 20 or so with strobes??? Anyway it wasnt who I know, but have heard of a guy that jsut doesnt care.

Boy this whole thing is a mess :twisted:

[e-money]

Originally Posted by Beerman

E$.......I have never seen that many??? You sure it just didnt look like 20 or so with strobes??? Anyway it wasnt who I know, but have heard of a guy that jsut doesnt care.

Boy this whole thing is a mess :twisted:

Beerman, it was NOT who you know & I like / respect him.


We were utterly astounded, because we moved to get out of his way & had to travel for 3-4 miles before we were clear off all the gear.
Can only surmise that there were a couple boats working together & don't want to beat a dead horse or stir the pot more than necessary.