Seasonal Fishery for Swords?

[frigate chaser]

After getting skunked, without even a slashed bait, or a line cut by sharks for the past four months, I have been wondering about the state of the fishery off Dade County. It concerns me because our sets for swordfish have not seen a drought like this, and I am starting to wonder what variables have changed. Adjusting bait depths, glow light placement, drift lines in the gulf stream - starting to go mad. All this gear, strategy, and sonar technology is not being used by longliners in the Caribbean, yet they seem to be catching fair numbers (maybe using 900 hooks off Suriname gives them a better chance). The point is that my theory of a seasonal movement - more or less - may be a possibility. If that is not the case, it worries me that the entire fishery is being overexploited.
Is there anyone on the forum that could possibly point to some data indicating that this is not the case? It seems to me that swordfish are heavily harvested in many areas of the Western Atlantic such as Georges Bank and the Hatteras area. Anectodal reports indicate that some large size swordfish have been harvested in these places in the last few years, which would make me guess that the average size of landed swords has not been skewed downwards due to intense fishing. Does anybody know if the swordfishing off of Cuba has contributed to the decline (is anbody monitoring the quota)? Or maybe I am just a damn poor fisherman?

[tunaman81]

Originally Posted by frigate chaser

After getting skunked, without even a slashed bait, or a line cut by sharks for the past four months, I have been wondering about the state of the fishery off Dade County. The point is that my theory of a seasonal movement - more or less - may be a possibility. If that is not the case, it worries me that the entire fishery is being overexploited.
Is there anyone on the forum that could possibly point to some data indicating that this is not the case? I

The fishing seemed to be great in December and January, but the fishing has been poor as of late. I would no doubt attribute this to the fact that swordfish do migrate in and out of the area, and that there have not been many fish in the area recently. Tagging studies throughout the Atlantic have shown that swordfish from pups to large females make large-scale migrations. They are, after all, highly migratory species that are tolerant of a very wide range of water temps (40's-80's). Seasonal movement occurs without a doubt. The fish in the Florida Straits are most likely not resident, but transient and move in and out of the area depending on season, food availability, etc.

[frigate chaser]

What bothers me is the ready availability of good food in the region. On Christmas eve, we pulled a deep squid bait, only to find another squid feeding on the bait. While it is possible that there were swordfish in the area, and may have been spooked by the glow lights, or some other variable, I just think there hasn't been any recruitment lately into our fishing grounds. Why? I have been passing this question to my drinking buddies at RSMAS/UM, but they haven't added anything relevent to the mix. Lack of recruitment may be due to overfishing in other areas, but not necessarily recently. I just keep wondering what goes on off the coast of Cuba.

[PURPLE FEVER]

The transient migration patterns seem to pick up every time the commercial fishing pressure increases! These sure are are some smart fish

[CaptKen]

I agree, Its been downhill ever since commericals were allowed back out front, sorta reminds me of the late 70's, didn't take long then, and its not taking long now.
I remember a few years back it was not uncommon to have 7,8,9,10 chances in a night, any night, any moon.
We sure haven't seen a report like that in a long while.

[tunaman81]

Originally Posted by frigate chaser

What bothers me is the ready availability of good food in the region. On Christmas eve, we pulled a deep squid bait, only to find another squid feeding on the bait. While it is possible that there were swordfish in the area, and may have been spooked by the glow lights, or some other variable, I just think there hasn't been any recruitment lately into our fishing grounds. Why? I have been passing this question to my drinking buddies at RSMAS/UM, but they haven't added anything relevent to the mix. Lack of recruitment may be due to overfishing in other areas, but not necessarily recently. I just keep wondering what goes on off the coast of Cuba.

You seem to have a misunderstanding of what recruitment means. Recruitment is essentially when juvenile fish join the adult population. Swordfish don't "recruit" to our fishing grounds, they recruit to the North Atlantic stock. They migrate through our fishing grounds. The swordfish off the East coast of Florida are not unique to our area, they are the same stock of swordfish that occur throughout the entire North Atlantic Ocean/Caribbean/Gulf of Mexico.

[tunaman81]

Originally Posted by PURPLE FEVER

The transient migration patterns seem to pick up every time the commercial fishing pressure increases! These sure are are some smart fish

No, swordfish were always highly migratory. Swordfish were never "resident" to the Florida Straits.

You refer to commercial fishing. Are you talking about the buoy fishery, which is probably roughly similar in yearly catch to the ever-increasing recreational fishery (if people actually reported their catches). The buoy fishing that has been occurring even when the fishing here was red hot for everyone (like the past two fall/winter seasons)? If you are trying to place blame on the buoy gear fishermen, that is pretty ridiculous.

[tunaman81]

Originally Posted by CaptKen

I agree, Its been downhill ever since commericals were allowed back out front, sorta reminds me of the late 70's, didn't take long then, and its not taking long now.
I remember a few years back it was not uncommon to have 7,8,9,10 chances in a night, any night, any moon.
We sure haven't seen a report like that in a long while.

Marauder and Nick C have both had nights with multiple shots (and in some cases multiple fish) in the past couple of weeks. In fact, Nick C went 1 for 7 last Sunday night. I also seem to remember some nights a few years ago where no one had bites.

[Captain Ollie]

Swords are as seasonal as any other fishery.

You don't set out to go dolphin fishing in January, or sail fishing in August do you? Of course you can catch all three fish at any time of the year, but your odds are definitely better at certain times of the year.

If you couldn't catch fish this winter, particularly in December, then I don't know what to tell you. I personally thought the the fishing was as good as it gets in December and January. I was doing great right up to my last trip on February 8. Then I spent the better part of that month trying not to die. (I spent some time in the hospital due to food poisoning.) I was pissed as hell that I couldn't fish the Feb. moon.
As far as I'm concerned, the fishing's over come March. I wouldn't expect to see any fish till the latter half of this month and on into May. Those fish, by the way, won't be everywhere and will tend to congregate more in certain areas then they do at other times of the year, and that's all I'm gonna say about that.
Whether or not those fish show up in May is up for debate. There's usually a good push of fish through here in October and it seems that they didn't show up till December this year. After the late spring run you can forget about it again till late July thru August. Thats when the BIG Biatches come thru. Then its usually over again till October. After which Dec. thru Feb. are going to give you your best shots at fish.
But, of course, the fishies aren't looking at a calender and only do what they do in response to environmental triggers.

In case anyone is wondering, my rod and reel fishing experience goes back to when the LL'ers were still out front in full force. I had no problem catching them back then and I do believe that is when swords were deemed to be wiped out, decimated....utterly extinct....BULL$HIT!

I think that claims of 7 to 10 shots at fish a night, any time of year, any moon are just as preposterous and along the lines of the claims made by the deepdroppers of just getting it to the bottom and bam, your on. Which bears a striking similarity to the claims of how easy it is to plop your 10 balls in the water and catch a 1000lbs a night. All of the above do happen but with FAR less frequency than many have been suckered into believing. Don't be a hater because you were the Eskimo that bought somebody's ice.

[Broadbill-Pro]

Originally Posted by Captain Ollie

In case anyone is wondering, my rod and reel fishing experience goes back to when the LL'ers were still out front in full force. I had no problem catching them back then and I do believe that is when swords were deemed to be wiped out, decimated....utterly extinct....BULL$HIT!

I think that claims of 7 to 10 shots at fish a night, any time of year, any moon are just as preposterous and along the lines of the claims made by the deepdroppers of just getting it to the bottom and bam, your on. Which bears a striking similarity to the claims of how easy it is to plop your 10 balls in the water and catch a 1000lbs a night. All of the above do happen but with FAR less frequency than many have been suckered into believing. Don't be a hater because you were the Eskimo that bought somebody's ice.

Well, I was getting bored with the General Threads anyway..

The PLL operated seasonally off the FEC right up until the closure because there were plenty of fish, had that not been true then economics would have prevailed.

One tournament off Miami 30 years ago did not produce fish and everyone threw in the towel and past judgement. I have read from several people on this forum that they continued to fish during the "PLL era" and did just fine.

My first year PLL'ing was 1978 and even then we had the knowledge to follow the fish to SC and then Georges Bank. To stay in one place 12 months of the year was to die a slow death. Sure we can always catch a fish or 2 year round in our area, same goes for kings, muttons and all the other resources.

I have been back in action in this area for the past 4 years and I can say without a doubt that the number of R&R strikes has decreased on average. I think that is certainly related to the effort being applied, that said we must examine how many fish actually are candidates to be caught per night.

Example: If every fish were a candidate each night there would be nothing to catch the following day, unless these fish are continually moving in and out of our area. I think we have enough tag information to determine that a high percentage of fish hang here until maturity. We know that with 500 hooks in the water during a specific moon phase the catch rate will remain consistant each night unless altered by effects such as environmental conditions. Simply said on the FEC during specific seasons there is a CPA (catch per area), that number is divided by the efforts of the fleet. Last year the CPA may have been 2-3 fish per degree of Lat. or Long., this year it may be 1-2 per night and next year possibly 3 to 4. That theory will remain consistant fishing the way our fleet does (picking a position before leaving the dock), the variable only being those who are out there every night and can stay with a productive edge of water.

In all the years we caught swordfish I never believed that we depleted a body of fish that we were working on. The catch rate remained consistant until the moon phase or other conditions changed, even when making 45 continuous PLL sets on a specific body of water. When another vessel would begin closely working that same area the CPUE would decrease while the CPA would increase slightly due to increased effort. This does not apply to fishing a tight temp break in the sub-tropics.

[frigate chaser]

Thanks for the insight guys, it is always good information coming from people that work it for a living, usually much more candid than anything us rec. guys try to pull from seminars, magazines etc. Guess I was just not getting the job done with the swordfishing around Christmas. Using the information provided, it helps to determine when to go out, as the fuel prices are just killing us. Every Tom, Dick, and Harry spouts about swordfish being year-round, and how it is so easy, can't believe they would lie to me.

P.S. Recruitment is a poor choice of wording for HMS like swordfish, should stick to smaller words. Too many years and too many beers from college graduation.

[NightCrawler]

FC, they are still out there keep working at it. BUT, like Ken said, we don't
get as many shots as we used to. Yes, we had a good stretch when it was that easy!!! 10 shots a night...3, 4, 5 fish...fish on as your putting down the first line out, etc etc etc...

Last fish caught a month ago, March 14. Several others caught em that night, including the drift boat Catch My Drift (61"). We spoke to him that night. We were already setup and he was still motoring to his spot. We told him how the drift was and the spot where we caught one the previous week.
He mentioned he hadn't had a bite in 3 weeks. I think that amounts to 3 trips for him, drifting 10 lines. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

Point is, it's been slow. Reasons? It's not the best time of year for em right now. But no doubt in my mind that the pressure (com & rec & daytime) has had an impact.

They are still out there, you just have to bring your A+ game and no room for mistakes. That shot that you get might be the only one.

I for one, will definitely be watching the upcoming Sword tournaments and compare the catch to previous years...

[PURPLE FEVER]

Originally Posted by tunaman81

No, swordfish were always highly migratory. Swordfish were never "resident" to the Florida Straits.

You refer to commercial fishing. Are you talking about the buoy fishery, which is probably roughly similar in yearly catch to the ever-increasing recreational fishery (if people actually reported their catches). The buoy fishing that has been occurring even when the fishing here was red hot for everyone (like the past two fall/winter seasons)? If you are trying to place blame on the buoy gear fishermen, that is pretty ridiculous.

Tunaman81 Sorry I was out of town and could'nt respond sooner.I reread my post where did I mention bouys I guess we know who is ridiculous!OF COURSE THERE ARE SEASONABLE PATTERNS.Cant someone make a joke without you're paranoid crusading?Of course the pressure from the increased rec and commercial efforts have no impact!RIGHT!

[tunaman81]

Originally Posted by PURPLE FEVER

Tunaman81 Sorry I was out of town and could'nt respond sooner.I reread my post where did I mention bouys I guess we know who is ridiculous!OF COURSE THERE ARE SEASONABLE PATTERNS.Cant someone make a joke without you're paranoid crusading?Of course the pressure from the increased rec and commercial efforts have no impact!RIGHT!

You didn't specify a commercial fishing method, however the fact remains that the only commercial fishery for swordfish in the area is buoy gear. And when you make a statement along the lines of "The transient migration patterns seem to pick up every time the commercial fishing pressure increases! These sure are are some smart fish" it tends to imply that blame should be put on the commercials. Since the only commercials here are buoy fishermen, it would seem that you are blaming them.

As far as replying to your post, I hardly see that as "paranoid crusading."

Sorry but it didn't seem like you were joking.

[Disco Lady]

COÑO!!!!!!!!!!

[PURPLE FEVER]

Tunaman you need to Go to the general chat and check out QQ's post!

[Broadbill-Pro]

Justin,

NOAA needs Observers, seems like that may be up your alley?

[tunaman81]

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

Justin,

NOAA needs Observers, seems like that may be up your alley?

I would like to at some point, but I don't have the time at the moment.

[Ron.38 Special]

Ever wonder why they call them Highly Migratory Species???????
All indications from th gulf PLL reports, and the action on the Charlseton Bump indicate that there are plenty of fish.

Ollie nd BP had great comments, but I do take exception to BP's inference that the fish were always here and we just quit fishing for them.
I have fished everyyear from 1976 to present, and BP, while you were traveling the worlds oceans, the fish were almost non existent off our coast for the quantities necessary to have a decent recreational interaction. Other competent anglers have verified my experience with similar stories. I know you think we have just one bad night in a tournament and quit fishing, but even Hogarth himself admitted that fishing pressue was the reason for the reduced catches.

Why do you think all you PLL's left the area in mass...It wasn't over the 30,000 lb trip limit.

[Ocean Outlaw 420]

Originally Posted by Ron.38 Special

Ever wonder why they call them Highly Migratory Species???????
All indications from th gulf PLL reports, and the action on the Charlseton Bump indicate that there are plenty of fish.

.

Ron are you feeling O.K.?