TBF Predictions for 2008 - It is not a Billfish and it is the Day droppers fault..

Jesslyn · 02-04-2008, 06:40 PM

IMO for 2008

I was just personally thinking about the Billfish Foundation supporting the commercial harvest of Swordfish (thinking about how political and hypocritical this is) and realized that they have painted themselves into a corner and I am expecting them to #1 declare that a swordfish is not a billfish and #2 point the finger at the daytime fishery for the demise of the Swordfish population in the near future.

Broadbill-Pro · 02-06-2008, 06:22 AM

I would not be so quick to judge Ellen Peel, make no mstake about it she is a thorn in the side of the commercial sector. She is very bright and knows how to use the system to the benefit of her organization.

She views Swordfish as a stepping stone to billfish (Marlin/Sailfish)conservation. I have also questioned her commitment to Swordfish conservation, but soon realized that in her quest to save Marlin, Swordfish get some benefit.

TBF goal is not to kill more fish, but to retain the quota as is so that the historic underage can continue to be bartered with other Nations in regard to Marlin conservation. The US Swordfish shortfall over the past 15 years has been a pile of bargaining chips that nobody wants to give up. That is the only motivation to support increased harvest in their eyes.

Jesslyn · 02-06-2008, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

TBF goal is not to kill more fish, but to retain the quota .

I know I am out on a limb but what better way to justify the commerical harvest of Billfish than to declassify them as a billfish. This thread will be a wait and see.

Thats all.

Uncle Buck · 02-06-2008, 10:36 AM

I thought it was already agreed by science that swords are not a member of the true billfish family? In any case, that just seems to be nit-picking the details. Maybe a name change to TPFPFF is needed? (The Pointy-Faced Palegic Fish Foundation)

Jesslyn · 02-06-2008, 12:45 PM

You know buck, I agree it is a nit picky thing but since i have seen Ellen support commerical swordfishing I began to think, "how could the bill fish founation support the harvest of a billed fish" The it dawned on me they must at some point come out and say, "thats not a bill fish".

quack quack · 02-06-2008, 01:00 PM

Matt she is looking at the big picture so to speak.She knows what has to be done and the best way to do it.This is such a political thing it is scary.

Jesslyn · 02-06-2008, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quack quack

She knows what has to be done and the best way to do it..

WOW

that is a heck of a statement, I am glad you have that much trust in her. I am just going to hang out on the side of the wait and see crowd on this one.

quack quack · 02-06-2008, 03:01 PM

I have spent a fair amount of time with her and she is good at what she does.If you sat down with her or even chatted on the phone you would see what I mean.

Broadbill-Pro · 02-06-2008, 03:12 PM

It may be like the NY Times supporting McCain (not sure she wants me on her side), but I support most of Ellen's ideas.

It is always a pleasure to be in her presence. The woman knows her chit!!!!!!!

quack quack · 02-06-2008, 03:30 PM

As far as the day droppers

I have not really tried yet but I will.That being said I am not sure about the future of that fishery.I think many of the fish being caught are not reported at least on the forums for fear of getting bashed like some others have been.The night fleet is down 80%on avg while the day fleet is up 1000% from a short while ago.

I can not remember a day fish on the small side.The day fish seem to be all big breeders.So I am not sure if the day fleet continues to expand that it may start to make an impact.

The only way to control that fishery would be to ban the use of electrics for swords.While some guys would keep doing it manually the majority would not be up for that.

But if the science says it is ok to catch these fish with out damaging the stock then I have no problem with it.I know some guys that will be day dropping in the canyons this summer to see if it works up there.

I am sure some of the Carolina crowd will be doing it as well.A little bumping on Charleston bump.

Jesslyn · 02-06-2008, 04:11 PM

Eric why do you think the night fleet is down 80%? I was out Saturday night and there was only a handfull of us out there?

quack quack · 02-06-2008, 04:22 PM

1.Reason is $$$$ these trips are not cheap
2.People down here get nervous in the dark 20miles from the inlet so if they can do it in the day they will
3.Day fish avg 175lb or better

Those are my top 3 reasons why I think that has happened.

Jesslyn · 02-06-2008, 07:07 PM

Interesting enough we spend twice as much on a day trip Vs. Night.

Do you want to go day droppin Saturday?

tunaman81 · 02-07-2008, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesslyn

You know buck, I agree it is a nit picky thing but since i have seen Ellen support commerical swordfishing I began to think, "how could the bill fish founation support the harvest of a billed fish" The it dawned on me they must at some point come out and say, "thats not a bill fish".

Jesslyn:

Swordfish are unrelated to the istiophorid billfishes (marlins, sailfish, spearfish). There are very significant anatomical and physiological differences between swordfish and marlins (their "bills" are derived from different bones, swordfish have no scales, no pelvic fin, etc). The exclusion of swordfish as a billfish is not new nor does it have anything to do with the Billfish Foundation. Swordfish are not considered a billfish. Even their bill is much different than that of a marlin, sail, spearfish.

Ellen and the TBF are very involved in swordfish conservation/research as well as other billfish conservation. Where do you get the idea that they support commercial fishing?

CaptKen · 02-07-2008, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quack quack

As far as the day droppers

I have not really tried yet but I will.That being said I am not sure about the future of that fishery.I think many of the fish being caught are not reported at least on the forums for fear of getting bashed like some others have been.The night fleet is down 80%on avg while the day fleet is up 1000% from a short while ago.

I can not remember a day fish on the small side.The day fish seem to be all big breeders.So I am not sure if the day fleet continues to expand that it may start to make an impact.

The only way to control that fishery would be to ban the use of electrics for swords.While some guys would keep doing it manually the majority would not be up for that.

But if the science says it is ok to catch these fish with out damaging the stock then I have no problem with it.I know some guys that will be day dropping in the canyons this summer to see if it works up there.

I am sure some of the Carolina crowd will be doing it as well.A little bumping on Charleston bump.

Its too bad the little Pickle Lickers bash the reports like the the latest, his buddy got upset because he wouldn't tell where he caught the 500 lber .lol That fish was dead ! what differnce did it make ?

You cannot remember a small daytime fish, Well I know of 5 this past week, one was only 25 lbs. and Im only 1 guy, they all arnt breeders like everyone seems to think, its the only pictures you see. when the little Pickle Lickers leave the ones that do post alone.

and you want to ban electrics ? let me guess, do you own a boat capable of reaching the 50 ? do you own an electric ?
I know a buoy guy that killed 2 big breeders last week 350 lbs + in one night, you want to ban buoys too ?

But its alright for a LLer to kill 6 thousand lbs a week cause your daddy fished on one. come on, get a grip, do you really think a few guys snatching a few off the bottom on a weekend the wind dosen't blow compares to what dies every night on a long line ?
I know lets limit the rec guy like snowys, tiles and everything else.
Just take away the electrics and let the Buoys and LL's kill all they want, Hell they never kill a breeeder. right

Uncle Buck · 02-07-2008, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quack quack

But if the science says it is ok to catch these [daytime] fish without damaging the stock then I have no problem with it.

Nowhere, in ANY recreational fishing regulations that I am aware of, does it specify the time of day or depth where fish are allowed to be harvested. Only the methods, quantity, and sizes are limited. So what's the legal difference of catching 'em during the day, versus night? NONE. And think about this... The regs allow up to 4 swords per REC vessel per day/trip, given there are 4 licensed anglers on board. That's a daily limit. What if every available HMS-permitted boat harvested 4 swordfish each night for a year? The regulations are theoretically allowing the recreational fleet in South Florida to take upwards of 146,000 fish per year! If the average weight per fish was 90lbs, that's approaching a staggering 6,000 metric tons. (whole weight)

Of course that's an extreme improbability, but it would technically be within the guidelines of the current rules. ...and that's what NMFS says is okay.

Broadbill-Pro · 02-07-2008, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tunaman81

Ellen and the TBF are very involved in swordfish conservation/research as well as other billfish conservation. Where do you get the idea that they support commercial fishing?

To say they support commercial fishing is not accurate. It is more like they are willing to use the commercial industry on issues that support their cause.

It is very clear at meetings that all recreational leaders will wank you in the front while sticking a knife in your back at the same time. If I was a lesser person I would repeat some of the conversations that occur in the pubs of DC.

quack quack · 02-07-2008, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptKen

Its too bad the little Pickle Lickers bash the reports like the the latest, his buddy got upset because he wouldn't tell where he caught the 500 lber .lol That fish was dead ! what difference did it make ?

You cannot remember a small daytime fish, Well I know of 5 this past week, one was only 25 lbs. and Im only 1 guy, they all arnt breeders like everyone seems to think, its the only pictures you see. when the little Pickle Lickers leave the ones that do post alone.

and you want to ban electrics ? let me guess, do you own a boat capable of reaching the 50 ? do you own an electric ?
I know a buoy guy that killed 2 big breeders last week 350 lbs + in one night, you want to ban buoys too ?

But its alright for a LLer to kill 6 thousand lbs a week cause your daddy fished on one. come on, get a grip, do you really think a few guys snatching a few off the bottom on a weekend the wind dosen't blow compares to what dies every night on a long line ?
I know lets limit the rec guy like snowys, tiles and everything else.
Just take away the electrics and let the Buoys and LL's kill all they want, Hell they never kill a breeeder. right

Ok Ken back the _uck up and do not ever bring my daddy or my family or my heritage in to a conversation

If I am off base on your intention then I am sorry if not then

Listen re read my post I said I would day drop with electrics to try it out.I only said I have not seen many small day fish.It is not a few guys snatching a couple off the bottom.They are getting as many day fish as buoy fish almost.As far as a boat that can go to the 50 yeah I have about a doz.Electrics yup I can use about 3 of the big lps a bunch of Kristal's and all electro mates you can imagine.I also said if the science said it was bad for the fishery.Not if I say it is bad.Hell I have been defending the day dropping the whole way go back and look for your self.As far as ban buoys

call some of them and ask who has defended them the most on this site.Hell ask BBP he still can't figure out why I supported the buoy fishery.

Again if I took you post the wrong way then I am sorry.But if I did not then my rant was justified!

CaptKen · 02-07-2008, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quack quack

As far as the day droppers

I have not really tried yet but I will.

The night fleet is down 80%on avg while the day fleet is up 1000% from a short while ago.

The day fish seem to be all big breeders.

The only way to control that fishery would be to ban the use of electrics for swords.

Ok I will try again and not bring family in, This is how I read it:
Here is a guy that never day dropped, Im gonna take it that does NOT own a boat or a rod capable of doing it himself {since you beat around the bush and said you have 10 and never really answered the question}

Night fleet down 80% where do you get that ? from your next door neighbor brothers cousin ?

The day fish seem to be a big breaders again, next door neighbors brothers cousin ?

The only way to control that fishery would be to ban the use of electrics for swords So here we have a guy that never day dropped, dont own a boat or a rod spewing out information, I just wanted to clairfy it ,just because you say the night fleet is down 80%. All I was trying to do was give you some first hand info from someone that does own a boat and a rod and who has done it more than once.
I wont touch the 80 % you may be right, but who knows for sure ?

Day fish are all big breaders. Im telling you first hand that they are NOT! Ive been in on a few and 1 was, I have a buddy that owns a boat and a rod and snatched a few and 1 was, and ditto again for another buddy that owns a boat and a rod, again 1 was
And also its not shooting fish in a barrol like everyone seems to think, you have to hook about 15 to get 1 in the boat, and there are days you can drift all day without a bite.
So with that said as far as the ones you see picts of are the big ones, Its a Macho chest pounding thing. guys dont brag about the 100lbers
And also my point that you dont seem to think that breeders are dying everynight on buoys and LLs, so take away the electrics from the Rec guy and let a Comm kill all the breaders he wants ?

So now that you hate me for being up front and honest and sayi

02-04-2008, 06:40 PM	#1 (permalink)
Jesslyn Hooked Up Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 657	TBF Predictions for 2008 - It is not a Billfish and it is the Day droppers fault.. IMO for 2008 I was just personally thinking about the Billfish Foundation supporting the commercial harvest of Swordfish (thinking about how political and hypocritical this is) and realized that they have painted themselves into a corner and I am expecting them to #1 declare that a swordfish is not a billfish and #2 point the finger at the daytime fishery for the demise of the Swordfish population in the near future.

02-06-2008, 06:22 AM	#2 (permalink)
Broadbill-Pro Grander Join Date: Jan 2006 Best Catch: When I look at a Commercial Fishing Vessel I see 300 million Americans and you only see the Crew Posts: 1,184	I would not be so quick to judge Ellen Peel, make no mstake about it she is a thorn in the side of the commercial sector. She is very bright and knows how to use the system to the benefit of her organization. She views Swordfish as a stepping stone to billfish (Marlin/Sailfish)conservation. I have also questioned her commitment to Swordfish conservation, but soon realized that in her quest to save Marlin, Swordfish get some benefit. TBF goal is not to kill more fish, but to retain the quota as is so that the historic underage can continue to be bartered with other Nations in regard to Marlin conservation. The US Swordfish shortfall over the past 15 years has been a pile of bargaining chips that nobody wants to give up. That is the only motivation to support increased harvest in their eyes. Last edited by Broadbill-Pro : 02-06-2008 at 02:59 PM.

02-06-2008, 10:36 AM	#4 (permalink)
Uncle Buck Grander Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Boat in Boynton / Home In Boca Boat: Sailfish 218CC Best Catch: 350+ Mako Occupation: Graphic Designer Posts: 1,717	I thought it was already agreed by science that swords are not a member of the true billfish family? In any case, that just seems to be nit-picking the details. Maybe a name change to TPFPFF is needed? (The Pointy-Faced Palegic Fish Foundation) __________________ 2007 TBF Top Swordfish Tagging Angler, Atlantic Uncle Buck Graphic Arts, LLC Graphic Design Services for the Boating/Fishing Industry

02-06-2008, 01:00 PM	#6 (permalink)
quack quack Old Salt Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: lake worth Best Catch: 25lb codfish 5 yrs old first hanger Posts: 4,424	Matt she is looking at the big picture so to speak.She knows what has to be done and the best way to do it.This is such a political thing it is scary. __________________ Either we can be a part of the solution or we can be the victims of a decision.

02-06-2008, 03:01 PM	#8 (permalink)
quack quack Old Salt Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: lake worth Best Catch: 25lb codfish 5 yrs old first hanger Posts: 4,424	I have spent a fair amount of time with her and she is good at what she does.If you sat down with her or even chatted on the phone you would see what I mean. __________________ Either we can be a part of the solution or we can be the victims of a decision.

02-06-2008, 12:45 PM	#5 (permalink)
Jesslyn Hooked Up Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 657	You know buck, I agree it is a nit picky thing but since i have seen Ellen support commerical swordfishing I began to think, "how could the bill fish founation support the harvest of a billed fish" The it dawned on me they must at some point come out and say, "thats not a bill fish".

02-06-2008, 03:12 PM	#9 (permalink)
Broadbill-Pro Grander Join Date: Jan 2006 Best Catch: When I look at a Commercial Fishing Vessel I see 300 million Americans and you only see the Crew Posts: 1,184	It may be like the NY Times supporting McCain (not sure she wants me on her side), but I support most of Ellen's ideas. It is always a pleasure to be in her presence. The woman knows her chit!!!!!!!

02-06-2008, 03:30 PM	#10 (permalink)
quack quack Old Salt Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: lake worth Best Catch: 25lb codfish 5 yrs old first hanger Posts: 4,424	As far as the day droppers I have not really tried yet but I will.That being said I am not sure about the future of that fishery.I think many of the fish being caught are not reported at least on the forums for fear of getting bashed like some others have been.The night fleet is down 80%on avg while the day fleet is up 1000% from a short while ago. I can not remember a day fish on the small side.The day fish seem to be all big breeders.So I am not sure if the day fleet continues to expand that it may start to make an impact. The only way to control that fishery would be to ban the use of electrics for swords.While some guys would keep doing it manually the majority would not be up for that. But if the science says it is ok to catch these fish with out damaging the stock then I have no problem with it.I know some guys that will be day dropping in the canyons this summer to see if it works up there. I am sure some of the Carolina crowd will be doing it as well.A little bumping on Charleston bump. __________________ Either we can be a part of the solution or we can be the victims of a decision.

02-06-2008, 04:11 PM	#11 (permalink)
Jesslyn Hooked Up Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 657	Eric why do you think the night fleet is down 80%? I was out Saturday night and there was only a handfull of us out there?

02-06-2008, 04:22 PM	#12 (permalink)
quack quack Old Salt Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: lake worth Best Catch: 25lb codfish 5 yrs old first hanger Posts: 4,424	1.Reason is $$$$ these trips are not cheap 2.People down here get nervous in the dark 20miles from the inlet so if they can do it in the day they will 3.Day fish avg 175lb or better Those are my top 3 reasons why I think that has happened. __________________ Either we can be a part of the solution or we can be the victims of a decision.

02-06-2008, 07:07 PM	#13 (permalink)
Jesslyn Hooked Up Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 657	Interesting enough we spend twice as much on a day trip Vs. Night. Do you want to go day droppin Saturday?