TBF Predictions for 2008 - It is not a Billfish and it is the Day droppers fault..

[Fishalways]

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

ALL of the species you mentioned have the advantage of being counted to some extent, thus the science is for the most part accurate.

So swords cannot be counted, is this what you are implying?

The status of highly migratory species is not a perfect science,

So how can we be certain that the science on the biomass is correct?

NMFS could not handle the lawsuits that developed from closing a fishery deemed to be at 99.9% MSY.

Who would be bringing these lawsuits? If they are foreign then they can simply ignore them. If they are domestic, how many would be to many to handle? Do you have anything to back up this assertion?

How could they not allow Americans access to a species that swims into hooks of other Nations a week later?

What do you mean by americans? All or just commercial? Sorry this doesn't swing. The species I refered to are testimony to this. As for other nations, who cares. Why do we have to let them into our economy? This is not a big enough peice of economic pie that China or Japan or the EU is going to boycott the US.

To restrict a species from the public, you better have a darn good argument that the species is in jeopardy.

And that is the crux of this issue. There are people who do believe that the sword biomass is not rebuilt and it is at risk for the current policies.
See your quote below.

I am not certain, but I assume that somewhere in history all the species above were in danger of exploitation from commercial and recreational harvest, that is why they are restricted now.

Swordfish has never been close to being endangered globally.

And there are many people who dissagree with you. How do you show them that you are correct when even you admit the science not accurate?

[Broadbill-Pro]

Originally Posted by Fishalways

So swords cannot be counted, is this what you are implying?

OK, I'll play.. Unless you have developed a device that can detect swordfish DNA underwater, the only reference we have is whats caught.


So how can we be certain that the science on the biomass is correct?

Read above (by what's caught) (CPUE). Question: How did you determine the species is being expoited?



Who would be bringing these lawsuits? If they are foreign then they can simply ignore them. If they are domestic, how many would be to many to handle? Do you have anything to back up this assertion?

UMMMM, lets's see. How about 180 directed species and 90 handline permit holders, not to mention hundreds of incidental permit holders.



What do you mean by americans? All or just commercial? Sorry this doesn't swing. The species I refered to are testimony to this. As for other nations, who cares. Why do we have to let them into our economy? This is not a big enough peice of economic pie that China or Japan or the EU is going to boycott the US.

Yes, All Americans. Do you think we will sit by and allow only recreationals access to a species if it is not considered threatened? Other Nations, you better start caring. Those fish do not have to be sold here, Spain, Italy and dozens of other Countries are more than happy to buy fish caught just outside our EEZ.



And that is the crux of this issue. There are people who do believe that the sword biomass is not rebuilt and it is at risk for the current policies.
See your quote below.

I think I have a 30'' waist and more manhood than the Beast, one is certainly not true. There is no scientific data that leads anyone to believe swordfish are in danger. By all observations, the PLL, buoy and recreational fleets are not complaining one bit about production.




And there are many people who dissagree with you. How do you show them that you are correct when even you admit the science not accurate?

Pick up a globe and put your hands over the North Pole and the South pole, every ocean area still exposed holds swordfish in abundance. What we catch here is a flea on the Beast to what the world oceans contain. I can take you to several areas where +200 swords can be caught per day per boat if the killer whales turned their heads for a few hours.

[CaptKen]

Originally Posted by quack quack

Jim again like I said to Ken.If the science says it is bad for the overall health of the fishery then I would be against it.What I mean by that is if they found out all the big bottom swords were in the act of spawning and or some what local fish then it would not be good to harvest those fish.

and a lot of what we know is guess work using the best science we can.



If the science says catching big daytime fish is bad for the fishery then I would be against it.

Would you also be against it for commericals to use electrics and bandits also ? and yes they can use that gear type, I was a good boy and gathered my facts before opening mouth. matter of fact I know 2 out there right now bouncing sinkers off the bottom with a 3rd on the way out with 2 bandits with 2 hooks on each one.

My point is all the crybabies about electrics better realize that if they do take um away from the rec guy the commerical wont be touched, They will still be doin it. And the rec guy will be shooting the other rec guy right in the foot. The commerical guy will be laughing all the way to the bank as he rapes the 300 million wallets.


and a lot of what we know is guess work using the best science we can.

you hit the nail right on the head ! Bottom line is they dont have a friggin clue! compared to what? the 70's ? compared to the 70's, not even close !

[quack quack]

Yes I would be against any user group fishing like that if it was bad for the fishery.You seem to think that I am against electrics.Look back and you will see I have defended them.

[Broadbill-Pro]

Ken,

Have you ever taken the time to examine where most of the current buoy Captains came from?

When do you disown them? When they sell their first fish? or can guys who Charter on the weekend and sell swords during the week still expect your support?

[quack quack]

I just went back over the reports for a few months and with all the day swords most of the posts were positive.Only 1 or 2 had any one say anything against electrics. It is easier for us to remember bad posts then good ones but that is human nature and yes I never bashed electrics only supported


OK lets all get real sporty.No more electronics gps,fishfinder,radar etc.Then get rid of all those gold 2 speed 60lb drag reels filled with that high Tek braid line and invisible mono.Not to mention those graphite bent butt rods with those wind on guides.No more mono leaders either got to go to the piano store and pick up some #14 wire.Stop by the machine shop and have them make you some iron hooks.Then go get some local bait no squid trucked down frozen.Unbolt those fancy out boards and install a 25hp single screw inboard.For Rods and reels either break into the IGFA museum or go see Tommy Green maybe he can hook you up with an old van Hoff knuckle buster with a new leather patch drag and a nice split bamboo rod.The line might be tough but if you raid some back yards I am sure you can patch together enough cloths lines to get you a few hundred yards to work with.Just make sure you dry it out after every trip.Because all those old guys that did it with that tackle would cry foul and unsporting for all the tackle we use today.

So if you have done all that then you can complain about how sporty this or that is.I have seen great anglers and not so great anglers.But they both did the same thing they turned the handle.Same as pushing a button for the Captain and crew.If the first guy could not do it then put the next guy on the rod.So unless you are fishing 100% IGFA rules do not throw stones.

Still it would be cool to try and get one with that old tackle and boats just to see how big of spoiled wimps we all are.
__________________
Either we can be a part of the solution or we can be the victims of a decision.

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Last edited by quack quack : 10-09-2007 at 09:22 AM.

A post I found on my opinion of electrics.

[NightCrawler]

>>>>I just went back over the reports for a few months

if you worked for me, I would fire you
Keep up the good work you old salt

[Broadbill-Pro]

QQ,
You sell anythng today? me neither. Too busy making up lead weights

[catching]

I sold something today in between making a couple L rigs for deep dropping, going to give my 80W and right arm a work out tonight

[quack quack]

I can talk on the phone and read post at the same time. Just have to make sure I don't start yelling at my clients about using electric reels. actually I had a very good day.

[CaptKen]

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

Ken,

Have you ever taken the time to examine where most of the current buoy Captains came from?

When do you disown them? When they sell their first fish? or can guys who Charter on the weekend and sell swords during the week still expect your support?

Have you ever taken the time to examine where most of the current buoy Captains came from?

Yes I know exactly where most came from, most were rod and reel fisherman with the exception of one who never really was a fisherman but a diver who bought a liscense.

When do you disown them?
I would never disown any one of them, everyone seems to be good guys, there may be 1 or 2 that is suspected of being unscrupoulis but thats what happens when money is involved.Youve got to remember, its a wild frontieer out there in the middle of the night with ZERO enforcement.

or can guys who Charter on the weekend and sell swords during the week still expect your support?

I think were on the same page on this one, I believe I know exactly who you are refering too, Im not gonna call his name out because most people on here think he can walk on water ! far as Im concerned I would'nt Pizz on him if he was on fire. matter of fact I just had a conversation with one of his clients the other day, they slammed 3-250lb+ in one day ! did the client even go home with 1 fish ? naw, so to answer your question NO, that scumbag will NEVER have my support. the sad part is He has the balz to do it right under everybodys noses.

[quack quack]

Funny thing is Ken we have the same opinions on a lot of stuff.So except for the fact that I am open to the fact that we need to do something on the quota why did you flame me?

So there some guys that are slamming multiple 200lb + day fish all the time.Like anything there is a learning curve and when the rest of the class gets caught up what will happen?


love these pics http://www.marktheshark.com/html/filletrelease.html

A few more of my favorites. Monster Sword Fish

From what I hear his clients don't go home with much fish either.


Those sun fish make nice mounts trophy

[miss quik]

[quote=CaptKen;77799] far as Im concerned I would'nt Pizz on him if he was on fire.


As far as Im Concerned, that is a fricken hall of fame one liner !!!!!I hope you don't mind, but I'll be putting some miles on that sucker.

chris

[quack quack]

That line is older then Ken

[Tuna Devil]

I remember in the 70s.

[CaptKen]

Originally Posted by quack quack

Funny thing is Ken we have the same opinions on a lot of stuff.So except for the fact that I am open to the fact that we need to do something on the quota why did you flame me?

So there some guys that are slamming multiple 200lb + day fish all the time.Like anything there is a learning curve and when the rest of the class gets caught up what will happen?


love these pics http://www.marktheshark.com/html/filletrelease.html

A few more of my favorites. Monster Sword Fish

From what I hear his clients don't go home with much fish either.


Those sun fish make nice mounts trophy

First I didn't consider it a flame, I consider a flame is IF i called you a name directly like QQ you are a Richard Head !
maybe I didn't come off right but let me try and explain:
Ok Im a new guy 1st time on here, I look at QQ and see 4000 posts, WOW ! this guy must know his chit. He says every daytime swordfish is big breeder, later I find out , hell there is guys out there catching 25 lbers, so every daytimer is not a breeder, I wonder where he came up with that ? So the next time QQ speaks this new guy is gonna say, wow he was full of chit last time, see where im going with creditabilty ?

another example Justin wants to be known as the swordfish scientist
comes on says without gathering his facts and says , commericals cant use electrics or bandits. whats the new guy going to think about his credibility when he figures out that they in fact can, next time he speaks the new guy is gonna say aw hes full of chit. so if were gonna paint the picture, Paint it for Commericals also, because you watch what I say, if they do ban um for recs the commericals will still be doing it. anything for the almighty quota.

I guess its its just misinformation that gets me down, then everyone starts believing it.

and the shark is not the guy I had in mind, but he is another

[Fishalways]

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

OK, I'll play.. Unless you have developed a device that can detect swordfish DNA underwater, the only reference we have is whats caught.

Ok, so you say the biomass is 99.9%. And we all know there is a signifigant quantity of over fishing by foreign fleets and under reporting by domestic fleets, both commercial and recreational. Using that information, the biomass is under threat because we are over fishing, Yes or no?

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

Read above (by what's caught) (CPUE). Question: How did you determine the species is being expoited?

Inversly, how can you then determine that the species is not being exploited?

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

UMMMM, lets's see. How about 180 directed species and 90 handline permit holders, not to mention hundreds of incidental permit holders.

Ok, so by your numbers we are talking at least 470 to a max of 1270 users. The US court system handles more than that using larger numbers every day.

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

Yes, All Americans. Do you think we will sit by and allow only recreationals access to a species if it is not considered threatened? Other Nations, you better start caring. Those fish do not have to be sold here, Spain, Italy and dozens of other Countries are more than happy to buy fish caught just outside our EEZ.

No we sit by and close the species to all until it is recovered and then open it to only recreational harvest like all the species I mentioned are currently.
You state the other nations have other markets than the US. How much can that foreign market handle? How much is imported into the US as a percentage of the total US market? Can the foreign market handle the shift from the US market? Give me numbers and convince me.

Let me simplify it. How much of the domestic swordfish market is imported into the US?

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

I think I have a 30'' waist and more manhood than the Beast, one is certainly not true. There is no scientific data that leads anyone to believe swordfish are in danger. By all observations, the PLL, buoy and recreational fleets are not complaining one bit about production.

There is scientific data, that when you look at it with the anecdotal evidence, does indicate the species is in danger. So I do agree there needs to be more scientific study. But, any study that begins with a datum in the 70’s and 80’s is flawed on its foundation because there is to much historic variation due to fishing over the last 100 years.

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro