Here's the "Catch" in the Closed Zone Research

[Ron.38 Special]

OK so you think it's great candelstein thinking that comes up with the political decisions at National Marine Fisheries........Not really....

Actually its pretty simple thinking.

The current EFP in the closed zone couldn"t stand up to the peer review if the Pope blessed it himself....

The EFP research is using exclusively "Non Offset Circle Hooks".

Big deal, no longline vessel in the Atlantic is using "Non Offset Circle hooks"/

So we go out there and do a years worth of research with "non offset circle hooks", then we go to NMFS and say " Look at the bycatch reduction" then we go use 10 degree offset circle hooks and go back to the same old stuff out there.

An offsset circle hook is not a circle hook!

[Relentless33]

[Disco Lady]

COÑO!!!!!!!

[Broadbill-Pro]

The prefered PLL hook size is 9/0 J hook, this is not an option.

The choice that PLL have is 16/0 without offset or +18/0 with a 10% percent offset.

An 18/0 hook is not a 9/0 hook

[Ocean Outlaw 420]

Ron,you sure do have alot of time to look at all tose hook tubs on all the different LL boats.How did you see in mine if they were covered up?Oh wait never mind,I see your just up to your normal sh*t stirring.

[ameristrat]

They do that???? That's not real honorable...

[Disco Lady]

Ñooooooooo

[Ron.38 Special]

Originally Posted by Ocean Outlaw 420

Ron,you sure do have alot of time to look at all tose hook tubs on all the different LL boats.How did you see in mine if they were covered up?Oh wait never mind,I see your just up to your normal sh*t stirring.

Nice try outlaw, but actually I know you guys don't use non offset hooks because you can't even buy them.

The research group is currently requesting approval of a non approved circle hook cue to the market unavailability of the 18/0 non offset hooks. There are only something like 6000 ofthem in the US and not enough to do the research.

All groups are watching this research closely since it has no apparent continuity with ay other similar research.

Its all about bycatch. The greatest bycatch reduction in the PLL fleet is due solely to the fact that large, high bycatch areas were closed.
Circle hooks had very little to do with bycatch reduction when compared to the effect of the closed zone.

Also, offset circle hooks are not circle hooks and do not have even anything close to the advantages of real circle hooks.

Trust me. no matter what the results are for this farce of a research project, Governor Christ is not going to stand by and watch PLL's start back off our coast again in any permanent style.

And from what I understand, Hogarth is already finding out how well he is going to do in Florida after shoving this research down our throat.

Hogarth probably should go back to the Carolina's where he is wanted.


An OK Outlaw (good name for a pll boat) , just how many non offset circle hooks do you have in your tub?

[Broadbill-Pro]

Originally Posted by Ron.38 Special

Nice try outlaw, but actually I know you guys don't use non offset hooks because you can't even buy them.


The research group is currently requesting approval of a non approved circle hook cue to the market unavailability of the 18/0 non offset hooks. There are only something like 6000 ofthem in the US and not enough to do the research.


Actually one phone call produced 20,000 non-offset 16/0 and 18/0 right here in Pompano Beach. If you want more I can call the other local supplier.


All groups are watching this research closely since it has no apparent continuity with ay other similar research.

Its all about bycatch. The greatest bycatch reduction in the PLL fleet is due solely to the fact that large, high bycatch areas were closed.
Circle hooks had very little to do with bycatch reduction when compared to the effect of the closed zone.


Bycatch of what? Large circle hooks were ruled mandatory for several reasons, including increased survival rates of pelagic species and the fact that there is a near zero mortality rate of sea turtles when used in conjunction with a leader longer than the buoy drop (also mandatory).

The amount of small pelagics such as dolphin, wahoo and sailfish that are detered from eating a hook the size of your hand is enormous. Try catching any coastal fish with an 18/0 of any hook type along the Florida Coast and let me know how you do.


Also, offset circle hooks are not circle hooks and do not have even anything close to the advantages of real circle hooks.

You should be pushing for offset hooks, without them the experiment will prove that PLL have even less impact on the closed zones than predicted. The use of circle hooks by all estimates has reduced PLL production by 30%, take away the 10% offset and they may as well try using a snare for the fish to swim thru. BTW, why are you not pushing for recs and buoy vessels to use circle hooks? Do the fish caught on rod/reel and buoys not swallow the hooks? It must be difficult always looking in one direction?


Trust me. no matter what the results are for this farce of a research project, Governor Christ is not going to stand by and watch PLL's start back off our coast again in any permanent style.

Mr. Governor the same guy who just endorsed a Candidate who is going to grant amnesty to all illegal aliens. I suppose you'll take support from whereever you can get it.


And from what I understand, Hogarth is already finding out how well he is going to do in Florida after shoving this research down our throat.

Hogarth probably should go back to the Carolina's where he is wanted.

Your setting yourself up for a warm reception at the next AP meetings. OH, I forget the already met you


An OK Outlaw (good name for a pll boat) , just how many non offset circle hooks do you have in your tub?

That from someone who calls himself 38special, I would expect a man with your exaggeration skills to atleast boast a 50 cal.

[Ocean Outlaw 420]

We quit using hooks Ron,we've been practicing noodling in the closed area.The bait and noodle method remains the most effective!

[king kong]

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

That from someone who calls himself 38special, I would expect a man with your exaggeration skills to atleast boast a 50 cal.

Good Said

[king kong]

Originally Posted by Ocean Outlaw 420

We quit using hooks Ron,we've been practicing noodling in the closed area.The bait and noodle method remains the most effective!

I use banannas

[Ron.38 Special]

BP,
I honestly have a knack for researching things before i post them. Actually that is something I learned in the real world while you were sequestered out on your boat for years.

The comment on availablility of no offset circle hooks comes from a contact actually engaged in the research.

Go ahead Vinny check it out, call LP and see how many non offset LP circle hooks they have available.

And yes, you are right, I should and have been pushing for this research to use the real gear that is actually used rather than skewing the data with non-offset circle hooks.
You are absolutely correct, more bycatch would come from no offset hook and that is the point I am making.

Rather than stooping to your level of personal attacks, I will stand on the data, continue to pick it apart, and require that the best available science that is used in making fishery managment decisions is actually true clean science without a preconceived adgenda.

And lets see, BP is usggesting that maybe the PLL industry has a problem with me.......I sleep well knowing that! I didn't volunteer for this work to try to make friends in the PLL industry.

And as far a politics, come on vinnie while you were traveling the worlds oceans, I was sitting right here, keeping involved, and doing what I can to help the environment and local economy. My political and government contacts are invaluable and you can't get those contacts on a longliner off the coast of Africa.

And Hogarth??????? his record of lack of acomplishments during his term speak for themselves. Lets see, we're loosing quota, lost the shark fishery, lost the bluefin fishery, hurt the rest of the tuna fishery, let dogfish over run the northeast, .................need I go on?

Sorry BP, but you have years of catching up to do. And I'm sure I can handle the criticism of the infamous Capt Kane!


And .50 caliber, nope, .38 does the job!

[king kong]

I have a BB Gun.

[Ocean Outlaw 420]

Originally Posted by Ron.38 Special

BP,


The comment on availablility of no offset circle hooks comes from a contact actually engaged in the research.

Go ahead Vinny check it out, call LP and see how many non offset LP circle hooks they have available.


!

LP?yeah they make a nice spool.But I don't know anyone that uses them for terminal tackle.Too expensive.

Try these people for non-offset hooks,they should have plenty:

SNL corp, Sebastian,Fl.

Hiliner Tackle, Lighthouse Pt. Fl

Howell Tackle, Panama city,Fl

39960ST 18/0

They should have plenty.

[Broadbill-Pro]

Geeeeeez Ron, I thought I did a good job of keeping the personal attacks to a minimum

Tell your contact to call Hi-Liner, 20,000 non-offset hooks are in inventory. One of the Captains in the research picked up 1000 yesterday.

As far as where my knowledge comes from, all the fancy captial letters you could jam after your name could never equal the knowledge obtained from being there. Everything and I mean everything you know about PLL comes from second hand information.

I will keep the stone throwing to a minimum, but possibly we should look at how your Engineering skills have helped the environment since you brought it up. I seem to remember a snook story? What was the effect on natural resources when the Port was dredged? Where you not involved? What exactly are you doing in the Everglades now? Building bird nests or a Panther refuge?

Actually the PLL industry does not even know that you exist or that I am defending them. You see, they learned long ago to shut up and fish. Something Ollie and Tim have learned as well, it is the best way to confront these issues. You and I have nothing to lose, thats why we can continue the debate.

Your talents including being such a pain in the ass that you get your way, that is priceless in the world of lobbying. Normally that only comes with somebody who looks good in a bikini.

[Ron.38 Special]

Vinnie, My information came from the captain of one of the research boats. I though he knew what he was doing, but I guess you are telling me you know more about it thatn the guy doing it.

As far as you questioning my "environmetal or conservation" ethics, i might suggest you talk to Lisa Gregg with FWC and find out how my information helped the "snook" issue during Port of Miami blasting.

And don't ever question my Engineering or technical expertise or I'll buy Sea Tech and fire you! (wink)

[Broadbill-Pro]

Ron,

I read your post and made a call, I was told that 20k hooks are available. I was not looking for a debate on it.

You brought up your contribution to the environment, but I must admit that the words "snook" and "blasting" should never be used in the same sentence in regard to conservation.

As for buying our Company, that would be the worst conservation decision of your life, you see that would force me to go back swordfishing to earn a living

And if you could afford to buy it, you would be living on the other side of Federal Hwy. As for Lisa


All the accomplishments you boast about are impressive, the problem is they have very little to do with this issue. There is more to conservation than understanding contracts.

If I need some wet-lands blasted, you'll be the first person I call.


I will get to your PM when time allows.

[Dusky Mike]

Originally Posted by Ron.38 Special

OK so you think it's great candelstein thinking that comes up with the political decisions at National Marine Fisheries........Not really....

Actually its pretty simple thinking.

The current EFP in the closed zone couldn"t stand up to the peer review if the Pope blessed it himself....

The EFP research is using exclusively "Non Offset Circle Hooks".

Big deal, no longline vessel in the Atlantic is using "Non Offset Circle hooks"/

So we go out there and do a years worth of research with "non offset circle hooks", then we go to NMFS and say " Look at the bycatch reduction" then we go use 10 degree offset circle hooks and go back to the same old stuff out there.

An offsset circle hook is not a circle hook!

Interesting side note in this near-bloody debate ...guy harvey's portraits from the deep program featured a marine biologist who was researching circle hooks with satellite tags. He said that there was no statistical difference in mortalities beween offset and non-offset circle hooks. Note however, that this study was A)on white marlin in La Guira B) while trolling (probably the biggest difference to your situation) and C)very, very small (i think less than 50 fish total comparing J-hooks to circle hooks both offset and nonoffset)....it would be interesting to see the study expanded to several hundred fish!