NMFS Announces decision to issue EFP's for the closed zone.

[The BEAST]

Gimme a break! I wasn't accusing you of the threats.

I was trying to say that a couple of times I got threats and was told to JUST SHUT UP... This time it is you saying that if I shut up i "Gave up the cause"

Ah hell, now I have to explain this too!

[RiskTaker]

Originally Posted by Tuna Devil

Do not even make it sound like I would waste my time threaten you.

Perhaps you were addressing the Beast. Maybe it can all be worked out on the 203 ...

Not me, but I still think that curried Iguana sounds good: even if I have to use a snag hook to get it !

Ssssh, if you've never tried it. Ssssh, if you have ! Coño !

Oh, pardon me this is a derail off the subject: yet, a tasty one.

[Tuna Devil]

Jim,

If you were threatened, tell us who did it. I know you are usually not lost for words. It kind of sounds like more BS.

RT,

I don't get it.

[RiskTaker]

Attention all Piratas:

The 203 is the some time to be: CMD (Catch my drift Adventure ship drift, where maybe you will catch a Swooordfish fish... maybe even deep dropping?, on the dark side. )

Goose or duck sounds good to me though.

Get it, I am trying to keep the adventure going: No insults intended, as long as I have a good supply of very aged rum going, get it.

Arrgh, them Pirates.

P.S. - Curried Iguana is good viddles. (If you know how to cook it.)

[Tuna Devil]

Fair enough.

[RiskTaker]

What could be better on a swordfish conservation thread?

Than ways to eat more Iguana... OMG ! (ie. less swordfish: fish highly methylated with organic mercury ... who wants that anyway? Seasoned with Olive oil and Chef Paul's Blackened Redfish Magic, cooked over a hard wood smokey grill, no way .. ?????)

May as well go for the garden fed domestic critters instead ... ; at least while the wind is blowing. Sssh, I think I hear some palm branches and haliards rustling.

Do you think we are back on track yet?

[The BEAST]

Originally Posted by Tuna Devil

Jim,

If you were threatened, tell us who did it. I know you are usually not lost for words. It kind of sounds like more BS.

Yep, That's me! A big Bullshipper!

THREAD: My Report from DC
POST: #132
DATED: 3-30-2007 10:42 PM
My Report from DC

THREAD: The number: 2,200,000
POST: #110
DATED: 10-17-2007 9:02 PM
The number: 2,200,000

Ask Vinnie, QQ, Mike etc. if I am BS'ing you about those PM's. I don't know who posted them because they used new screen names with 0 posts. But as you can see I never waivered from my stance. Instead, I continued posting and airing my views!

[Broadbill-Pro]

Possibly I am naive to believe that HMS is in the hands of people who have a desire to do the right thing, I know many of them and their concern seems real. The base line data needs to be revealed, there is only one way to establish it.

Ofcourse the recreationals would love for things to remain unchanged, there was a time when PLL'ers expressed that same desire. As long as the world keeps spinning so must we adapt to change. If indeed there is room for another user group within the closed areas, then who are any of us to deny them?

I asked Ron to reveal his idea of an "adequate experiment" after he condemed HMS's proposal, now a week and 27 posts later he has once again backed out after laying the pile. If he made recommendations to HMS and they were ignored, please let us know. Ron donates a lot of his time to this issue and I respect that, the problem is that too much of it is after the fact criticism.

Unless someone has a better idea, move out of the way and let the proposed experiment take place.

And for lots of I told you so's in the future, let's not forget the long stretch of dismal fishing I pointed to last summer, it has been proven more than once that recreational swordfishing can be poor, even in a non-PLL era.

[The BEAST]

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

And for lots of I told you so's in the future, let's not forget the long stretch of dismal fishing I pointed to last summer, it has been proven more than once that recreational swordfishing can be poor, even in a non-PLL era.

Right now we are having a lousy showing on Sailfish, daily. We know that this is caused by the lack of cooler air/water temps, calm seas, etc. here in the extreme South. We understand that weather plays a big role in fishing. There is a HUGE difference between poor fishing due to climatic trends and what was being experienced at the end of the PLL "fish for all".

Crikey, Vinnie, you must think we are stupid!

[Broadbill-Pro]

No stupid Jim, it's just that some of you have tunnel vision. I would bet the farm that if those 2 vessels were fishing after this last cold front, they would be the blame for the sailfish not pushing down. I can hear it now, they can't push South because there all hanging on a PLL.

We had many years that it appeared swordfishing in the straits was finished only to rebound with a banner following season. The main reason that recreational swordfisherman did not have success while the LL were here has to do with lack of effort, not lack of fish. We were catching plenty.

One tournament 25 years ago (Miami) produced a slow night and from then on the recs have used it as the base line data that all swordfishing should be judged by pre-2000. Was the glass falling? Was there lightning? Could it be possible that the bite was before or after the tournament hours? NAAAAAAAA, had to be that PLL caught them all. Interesting that 100 million dollars worth of swordfish were caught in the same area over the following 15 years.

[ameristrat]

Oh Damn it. I really hate NMFS.... I really do. They start something in the right direction and.... "no, progress! We can't have that! Undo it!"

[The BEAST]

You are right! Aren't you always! That's what your first wife says!

Tell us again why you left and ventured half way round the worls, in '95. There were plenty of fish but the S. Florida weather was too warm for your liking? Something like that, huh!

I guess they closed the Straits and banned the PLL because of flawed science.

Today I was talking to some extremely weekend warriors and even they had heard of the 2 EFP allowances. Even they know what is next. You want to hear something funny, Vinnie. There is rumblings od another Swordfish boycott only this time they want to include permanent banishment of PLL, like in the Bahamas.

Geez, this could get much uglier before it gets any better. Go figure!

I have to go write my fishing column and I will be sure to mention you guys, once again!!!!

[ProfessorO]

With respect to swordfish, there are no S Florida swordfish, no N FL
swordfish, or no Keys swordfish. There are N. Atlantic swordfish and the best guess now is that there are four intrabreeding stocks worldwide, each whose distribution is basin wide (N. Atlantic, N. Pacific, Mediterranean, and Southern oceans, reference below). This fish are highly migratory and when they are not biting here it is because that they are someplace else or we are not fishing for them in the right place at the right time. IT MAKES NO SENSE TO TALK ABOUT DIFFERENT LOCAL FISH POPULATIONS ALONG THE FLORIDA COAST. cheers, arthur

S. Chow, H. Okamoto, Y. Uozumi, Y. Takeuchi and H. Takeyama, 1997.
Genetic stock structure of the swordfish ( Xiphias gladius) inferred by PCR-RFLP analysis of the mitochondrial DNA control region, Marine Biology, 127(3), 359-367.

[Captain Ollie]

Thanks Arthur, I can now at least cite an actual science based reference as to why my gag reflex kicks in everytime I hear the word "resident" and "swordfish" used in the same sentence.

Just had to throw that in there......now carry on with the bickering everyone.

[Tuna Devil]

Originally Posted by Captain Ollie

now carry on with the bickering everyone.

Listen here Bitch..........................

[Disco Lady]

COÑO!!!!!! NMF

[reeltherapy]

[quote=Broadbill-Pro;75122]One more time, the science needs to be conducted to determine good, bad or otherwise. HMS can not take the word of an impartial sector as being the final decision. QUOTE]

History alone is science enough. The storms clouds of a repeat sure seem to be gathering.

Re: electrics, while I do not use them personally, it is incomprehensible to try and equate their use with a LL'er. By catch mortality, nada. Catching the target species, by the posts here, better than 90% is conservative. Shorts released alive. There's no camparison.

Keeping the closed zones closed is what's best for the fishery and in the long run is the best for "all sectors".

This is about the easy money and the victim will be a repeat of devastating the fishery once again if LL'ing comes back to the zone. Hopefully it's not too late for courage and wisdom to prevail. There's not a right reason nor a right way to do a wrong thing. LL's in the zone is a wrong thing.

ReelT

[The BEAST]

OK.. O and Ollie... Educate me please. If there is only "N. Atlantic" swordfish stocks then... How do you explain the term "juvenile fishery" as is often used in suggestion to the S. Florida area? If there are NO "resident fish" then how can this area be labeled with the above term? Are y'all trying to say that the banning of the PLL was a fluke and that they had no detrimental impact on Florida? Was the past depletion simply a figment of everyones imagination? Was it only imaginary that the PLL themselves were bailing out of here (including Vinnie) in the late 90's?

Why is it NMFS keeps referring to "MSY" of stock in the closed zone if these fish are simply "N. Atlantic" stock? Why wasn't the ban extended everywhere in the N. Atlantic if your summation is that there is absolutely no base stock in certain areas?

It's amazing that highly educated scientists cannot come to equal opinions amongst themselves even after repeated studies. Studies of ocean science and pelagic species is nothing more than educated guesses.

During the late 70's, 80's and 90's... we weren't seeing a bad season or two or three or twenty, and we weren't fishing in the wrong places! Now after 7 years of no PLL fishing this "non-resident" "non-depleted" "N Atlantic" stock is at "MSY" in the closed zones. Well, ain't that a hoot! A bunch of contradictions and conflicting terms tossed around to suit the definition de jour'!!!!



Vinnie,

How effective is a year long EFP study on circle hooks as to bycatch, especially if you are deliberately trying to avoid interaction with those species? If you catch and kill a turtle in a 500 hook set, is that a 1 in 500 chance or 100%

[ProfessorO]

Capt Jim, Science is our best guess at what nature is doing and it
is always evolving as more information is collected. There are larger
error bounds on what we know about complicated systems that have
been poorly observed like swordfish. Scientists do not agree because
we have not fully observed the system (because of the great cost).

(Swordfish is plural in my argument above; there may be some fish,
presumable some males, that do not engage in much migration
and might not spend as much time chasing bait.)

Besides the well-known seasonal migration of pelagic fish and squid
that are south now and move northward throughout the spring,
swordfish move hundreds of miles following bait on a weekly basis.
The reason there should be closed zones is because of the high concentration
of fish in certain areas (please see Frias-Torres' map for details)
http://oceancurrents.rsmas.miami.edu...rdstory003.jpg
that are spawning. In the Florida Straits, the combination of the dynamics of western boundary currents and the morphological constraint of the straits
with S FL to the west and the Bahama bank to the right further concentrates the breeding fish. It is too easy for a few PLL boats and a few sets to
efficiently blanket the entire FL strait area and disrupt both the breeders and
catch juveniles before they have a chance to breed. Of course, other
fish species, squid, jelly fish, turtles, etc are also concentrated in these
areas leading to increased bycatch.

As you go north of the coast, the Florida Current is no longer constrained
by the Bahama Banks and it is allowed to meander more and to leave the
coast. South of 29 N, the average surface front's western edge is found
over the inner shelf (depths around 300'); north of 29 N the stream's
western edge is now centered, on the average, over depths of 1000'.
The amount the stream meanders steadily increases from 26 N to 30 N,
i.e. the variability in stream position is much greater to the north and
the fish are not as concentrated as in the Florida Straits. At 30 N, the
meandering greatly increases because of the influence of the Charleston
Bump. Will the northern boys who know more about their fishery than I
do, please correct any misinformation here????

In a perfect world, there would be no PLLs; but we don't live in a perfect
world and some judge might decide to let the PLL back into all of the closed zones all the time; then we will go through the same boom and bust cycle
again. I, and others, believe that compromise is the best and a plan
as I stated above in this thread should be formulated. The plan would be based on incomplete science but that is as good as we can do. In this plan, the FL straits should be remained closed because the highest concentration
of the N. Atlantic breeders are there like ducks in a pond; in other areas the
fish are less concentrated and there would be less danger of overfishing.
I do wish the PLL stay out of the closed zones but given the politics of
swordfishing, and politics trumps science in the era of Bush, they will
be back as we are seeing now. The 2 ships are just the foot in the door;
as it has been pointed out by me and others, better science will require
more ships. In all fairness in this argument, it should be pointed out that
the science of pelagic fisheries owes a great debt to the data collected
by PLLs.

So folks keep your all or nothing this is my sandbox and its toy attitude,
and it will be that, all or nothing, and there will be a lot of expensive
toys rusting away when the fish are gone. compromise is a much better option. cheers, arthur