Do you prefer Jugs? Check this out.

[RiskTaker]

Recently I submitted a forum topic to see what various angler's preferences were for attaching floaties to their swordfishing line up.

http://www.swordfishingcentral.com/f...opic.php?t=696

As of the time of this post the majority of anglers that participarted in the Poll, prefer to use jugs that break away from the main line, followed by balloons, permanently attached jugs as well as some other form of floaty device.

For me balloons are super convenient to use and stow. They can offer some limited re-use; however they can break easily and obligate you to inflate another one. I am not too excited either about breakaway jugs, unless that could be a sure-fire FAD to attract some dolphins or tripletails.

So I have opted to experiment with some form of permanently attached jug that can provide the best of all choices, as I interpret that to be. And here is what I have come up with... which I will share with you. If you would like to lavish me with any donations, please do so: I will send you my address! No franchise inquiries, please.

edited: Ok here are some photos. Alrighty then, who's the wise guy that voted for Fulton's... ?





I have heard most of the pro's and con's from the experts... balloons, jugs, break-aways, firmly attached, etc.: mind you they are not consistently in one camp. So it seems approriate to do whatever you like, and some expert swordfisherman will support that method. So you can't be wrong; it is just a matter of who you talk to.

My prototype accomplishes several objectives: it is highly re-usable, it is environmentally friendly, it provides an extremely good view of the colored cyalume, it provides an unobstructed surface light with good motion and an occassional dip and it may also be a good indicator of swordfish activity. So far I have only made one prototype, RiskTaker-FLTY-AD model P1. But wouldn't you know it, the first time I used it, I had a fish on, for a trial run. Could it be that good? It seemed to perform well on an experimental run of 1. (not a lot of data points to root out defects but enough to provide a Proof of Concept, and that is good enough for me to keep at this approach for now.) The light was visible in choppy seas and pretty far away. The jug was easily disengaged and successfully retrieved and available for subsequent use, consuming only one cyalume for the night of fishing. It did not seem to hurt matters, ie. hook coming off fish (the fish was corner of mouth hooked). The only thing that was not confirmed was the clear indicator of fish with bait in mouth rising to the surface: the cyalume on a stick being so top heavy should clearly fall completely over, providing a no-brainer tell-tale sign of activity on that line.

The fish dragged this thing around for about 50 minutes, sometimes it was floating, sometimes it got pulled under. As long as it is within 40 ft. of the surface, it will assist in keeping a steady pressure on the hook. Beyond 40 ft. in depth, the compression of the collapsable jug would reduce this form of assistance by more than 50%.

For this prototype I used the following list of materials:

90 ounce bleach bottle (featuring preferred shape and volume and durable threaded cap)
1 lobster tickle stick with the little ring still attached and used (prefer something lighter but I had only that available for proto#1)
1 long zip tie (already obsolete)
2 regular size zip ties (with the little mounting hole extension)
1 longline clip (including the swivel)
1 circle ring
1 #8 x3/4" stainless machine screw (plus spares in the tackle box)
and of course any rogue invention would not be quite complete without a few wraps of duct tape.
and cyalumes (1 per night)

From the photos you can fairly easily see the construction of this gizmo. The only thing you could not see clearly in the over-all photo is the slot in the stick and the hole used to help secure the cyalume in place.

Let me know what you think.

[INSPECTOR]

I personally had the........., well uh.........., good fortune? to view and witness this incredible invention's performance first hand. Upon first glance, I was....., well.........., somewhat intrigued with the appearance of this contraption and glad other boats were far away.

All kidding aside, this worked pretty well just as RT anticipated it would. In fact it caught our only fish of the night. It's worth a try for the ones looking for something different to try, and with the light at the end of the stick, visibility of and where your float is, is greatly increased.

Give it a try and you decide.

Regards,

[koko]

I admire your creativity. Having never even been swordfishing (but anxiously anticipating my first trip) my ideas could be way off base.

1. Would a wooden dowel be lighter than the lobster stick?

2. For the clip how about an adjustable Downrigger release? It would probably be more expensive than the longline clip, but you would have more options for rough/calm seas, heavy/light weight, dead/live bait etc...

3. I don't know how far from the boat the float goes(200ft?), is it hard to tell when a float is up in the air or laying on its side? I wouldn't think it is, but if so you could tape/superglue a washer or weight to the top of the glow stick, it should then submerge when a fish rises (depending on the density of the lobster stick or dowel).

Good luck, I enjoy reading all the posts on this site, I am way too landlocked for my tastes.

[Mike]

I like this concept.

I have just started using balloons twice the size as I used to use.. they are just a bit more visable and have worked out good.

Seeing a balloon flip or a device like you created is so critical!!!!!

Good job RT

Mike

[RiskTaker]

Koko:

Thanks for the thoughtful responses. Your ideas may not be off-base at all. Most everybody has a practical side in some particular aspect of their lives, regardless of whether it spans beyond your current level of expertise. Good ideas and in particular, inventions, many times, may jump across disciplines, sometimes from a person that may not have a clue as to how useful such a concept may be utilized for another application. So carry on with the curiosity: this spirit of innovation is what will help us bridge this period of offshoring manufactured goods for cheaper labor rates.

But here is my rational for your suggestions on this "silly bobber".

1. Would a wooden dowel be lighter than the lobster stick?
Ans. Yes absolutely, and that is the plan for prototype #2 as the preferred construction. I just did not have one handy before going out using proto#1.

2. For the clip how about an adjustable Downrigger release? It would probably be more expensive than the longline clip, but you would have more options for rough/calm seas, heavy/light weight, dead/live bait etc...
Ans. No, I think the longline clip is the most appropriate. The intent is to keep this jug on the mainline until it is taken off manually. A spring loaded clip could facilitate a forced break-away but I do not want to lose the jug either by it accidently breaking away out in the water

3. I don't know how far from the boat the float goes(200ft?), is it hard to tell when a float is up in the air or laying on its side? I wouldn't think it is, but if so you could tape/superglue a washer or weight to the top of the glow stick, it should then submerge when a fish rises (depending on the density of the lobster stick or dowel).
Ans. Yes, you are right-on here. That is one of the fundamental drivers for using the longer stick. That light on stick rides plainly upright (although it wobbles a lot) when the weight is working to counter-act it from tipping (P.S. - You need a 2 lb. weight to properly tune and balance this rig.). The long stick is top-heavy enough, that it flops right over if there is nothing tugging on it from below. When it dips into the water, the light is still visible but it looks contrastingly different than when it is riding up over the water. Distance from the boat can vary by the number of jugs you are deploying and how much area an angler prefers to cover, but 200 is a reasonable number. It is out in this range where this gizmo shines.

Good job on visualizing this behavior without even getting out for a "field/stream test".

P.S. - Check out the local swordfish charters if you are ever highly motivated from breaking the land-lock. There are a half dozen guys that post to this forum regularly and/or advertise here. They could very likely help you get a first fish the first time out. RT

[hannaman]

How about this scenario.... If your deploying your beauty rig with the longline clip attached to the main line.... as the floating rig drifts away from the boat a sword eats the bait and is swimming on the surface...You have to crank like mad to get tight... even if it means cranking the attachment through your guides to finally get tight...If your longline clip is in the way and you have to take a moment to strip it off, your fish will be getting away.. unless you get lucky and he has swallowed the bait down to his gut then no matter how long you take you might still get him. But in more cases than not your fish is surfacing to jump or spit. Just like Sailfishing, if you don't get tight before he starts tailwalking you lost your chance.
There really is no way around it. The balloon or jug has to be attached so that 2-3 pounds of pressure will release the float. In MOST cases the pressure of pulling down a jug underwater is going to make your fish spit or pull your squid off the hook leaving a partial mantle. That is why most of us leave our reels almost in freespool with the clicker on. Would you take the chance and keep your drags tight while your bait spead is out :?:

[RiskTaker]

Hey Cary:

I got your reply post. Thanks for the feed back to the concept of a tightly attached float. I need this type of advocacy because I still have not caught so many swordfish that I can say I do it most effectively. But mark my words, I will learn and will become very effective at it: from your advice, other anglers advice, and my own intuition and knowledge to get to that level of achievement. I am still new at this and am learning things everytime I go fishing. I am mostly venturing out without highly seasoned anglers for swordfishing that already have it all together so I am at liberty to try things out on my own terms.
That has pretty much been my life. I have friends, and they may not be familiar with a sport or hobby. I do not even think about that as a limitation. I will pick up on the new sport and just do it: I stumble, I learn, I excel. Now I can share it with the friends that did not know it before. Swordfishing is my new hobby, so you have caught me right in the middle of the basics. I need a good mentor to advise me on what is right or incorrect. But I will question any pre-existing convention if it does not make sense to me and try to improve on whatever I can.
So far I have not had the personal experience that you describe as cranking to get tight before I have reeled into the balloon or jug position, where it has been critical to keep cranking. (Agreed, a balloon can be forcefully broken by reeling past the rod tip, if it has not already been popped off or broken, and a jug is out of the equation if it has broken free already). I just have not yet had this personal experience where I have been burned by losing a fish under these circumstances. I have also been impressed by the methods of Ray Rosher, (at such an impressionable age). The last time I checked, he does the same thing: he keeps his jugs and he keeps his weights and he catches a lot of fish. So I am in a dilemma where I must choose among various options, all of which seem to be standard protocol from some expert swordsman. I think you too must also have many years of great experience growing up here in Fort Lauderdale with many opportunities for fishing experiences. I have also lived here in Ft.L./Pompano since 1965; however, I have not been exposed to major fishing opportunities to be called professional by any means. Thanks again Cary, and keep on critiquing my methods since nobody else is quite tuned in for critique.

But I still plan to make my prototype #2 and test it out. The more testing, the more learning. One thing I have observed about the cyalume on the stick above the jug: there is a lot of motion with the light. I just wonder if that may also be a FAD for swords at night?

(Hey , were you the one that voted for option #2 on the Poll?)

Good luck this weekend and have a Happy Thanksgiving. RT

[hannaman]

No, that wasn't me. Most of the time you will get to keep your floats but their will be that one time when you have to crank so fast there is no stopping to detach your float, and it happens quite often. As the fish comes closer to the boat he will be more settled and you won't have to do any erradic reeling so then you can safely, but fast, detach your lead and lights if nessecary. Hope that helps.

[koko]

I was under the impression the jug would slide up and down the line when a fish hit it. I've never seen a longline clip in action so I had to guess as to how it worked. I was obviously wrong. It may be too much hardware to add to the jug, but if you attached a carabiner to the jug, then ran the line through the carabiner and attached the line to your Downrigger release the jug would slide up and down the line after the strike until you landed the fish. The gap on the carabiner is large enough it should slide past all swivels, knots, etc on the line. This would enable you to ignore the float until the fight was over. They sell low quality carabiners in most outdoors stores for use as clips. The heavy duty ones are used for rock climbing. I can't see why you would need a load rated one. Actually the cheap ones feel like they are made out of aluminum so they would probably be better than the not very stainless steel found on the expensive ones. Here is a web page with a few examples. It still might be a hairball idea. But if you want to try it and you can't find a carabiner down there let me know. I can buy them all over the place here for under $5. I'll mail you one. It is 37 degrees, man I love winter :???:


http://www.lazerdesigns.com/Merchant...tegory_Code=01

[RiskTaker]

KoKo:

You know. I never thought of that concept as you now put it in writing. Allow the jug to break free upon a significant enough impact but it is still loosely captive on the mainline. It sounds to me like it would always end up next to the fish unless you could reach out with a boat hook to grab it while it is floating close enough to the boat.

I will think about it some more. The loss of simplicity is the only thing bugging me about this idea. But that could just be the necessary trade-off to defeat the loss of a brak-away jug but essentially behaving the same behavior as the break-away jug.

I was having the same/similar thoughts for the lead weight. I have used rubber bands before to attach weights to the mainline, but before the robust implementation of captive wax-line loops. They do not always break-away when you have a fish-on. But if you were obligated to crank, crank, crank as Hannaman says will happen to you once in a while. You have the ability to do this even if the rubber band snaps at the rod tip. (But those can drop into the boat if you let them) You may lose a weight here and there in the sea but it sounds like a better compromise to some of the valid objections to this method of keeping your weights.

Thanks for the feedback Koko. RT

[TRK3]

Hey RT email me i have a "better mouse trap" idea for a float......BTW brand new here......last time i swordfished was about 18 yrs ago.....never caught one......anyway drop me a email and i will contact ya back.....

Tom

[TRK3]

Forgot email address Samknik@aol.com

Tom

[RiskTaker]

TRK3:

Ok you have my info.... If you have a better mouse trap idea for a swordfish bobber... you had better get busy a put it in the water to change that 0 streak, to a +1 move.

The last time I tried my glorious bobber contraption, we nailed a keeper on that line. So far so good, but need much more testing and enhancements.

If you cannot, then I will evaluate your suggestion and give it a go from this side. RT

[kai akua]

Ok here are some photos. Alrighty then, who's the wise guy that voted for Fulton's... ?

oops was that me.... if i didnt do some else would of! LOL maybe you can change my mind if we get to go swordin when i am in town..... LOL, i woild love to see it in action.

its a cool idea, i would just hate to lose that thing, with all the time put into it. ever thought of putting 2 #64 bands to realse it just incase the big one takes it down to deep?

keep it up!

R

[RiskTaker]

Kai Akua:

There is always a pollster prangster... who can it be now?

Don't you worry about that thing being dragged through the depths. It goes exactly where it is led. When it comes up again to breath, it behaves exactly as Boyle's Law predicted.

There is a possibility you can see this formidable weapon in action. You should be in town around Christmas break, right?

We will talk more on this matter. Time for night night , now. RT

P.S. - Oh wait until you see TRK3's better mouse trap in bobber form. I am "sworn to secrecy" , until it is revealed: it should be a piece of work, LOL.

LoL, LOL. RT

[TRK3]

Sssssssssssssshhhhhh............


Tom

[RiskTaker]

Oooh the Technology.

Such High-tech Intellectual Property.

Got it. I will be very quiet about this new super duper mouse trap. Even though it was my idea to begin with. Oh yeah, but yours will have these super cool features that allow it to.... Oooh yeah, Sssssssssssssshhhhhh............

Got you crystal clear. You know me. I am a man of few words. What more could you write about a bobber anyway. Pass me that boatdrink and I may surprise you.

ACME super-duper "Swordfish Bobber tm"

Endorsed by Wile E. Coyote. "World class hunter for the exotics"

Good luck TRK3.

[TRK3]

oh gawd......lets see....."High-tech Intellectual Property"
"super cool features" ....."ACME super-duper 'Swordfish Bobber TM'"

Sounds like this better mouse trap bobber is going to catch and clean your fish.....well not to disappont ya all it wont just give me a bit and i'll finish it........

Your killing me RT

Tom

BTW: Wile E. Coyote's "stuff" never really worked ....i hope to do better.