Checking in while fishing corner

[Snookher]

Just go back from Ft. Laurdale Boat Show and Stopped by the US Customs Booth. I asked the customs agent what is the rule if you decide to fish the corner? Here is the answer i got. I will venture to the islands in december and ask the Bahamas Customs agents to get their take on the issue.
So if you fish near the corner but stay away from land then you do not by any US standards need to clear Bahamas customs. But if you come with in 13 miles of land you should clear if possible. So for all those who just run to fish the corner , it appears that we are safe by US Customs, But it discressionary but the Bahamas agents. Again i will check with them in December to get there take on the issue. As for some of you, if you like to clear to fish that area, keep clearing, but for me its just not possible or fesible to fun additional 45 miles out of way to clear and certainly not economical at 120 gallons an hour burn rate.

Tight lines to everybody and safe travels when venturing to other side.

David

[Brand H]

I've always heard 12 miles. However, what he/she told you is no different than what has been posted on here a LOT of times. Come within 12 miles of the bank and you have to clear. Seems pretty simple to me.

[gtrfred]

i guess another question is 12 or 13 miles from what? I have always thought and abided by 12 miles from the bank, not from land. 12 miles from walkers or memory rock opens up an entire new area.

didn't the bahamas used to have an annual fishing permit? if they brought that back it would just be so much easier. Pay $500 (or whatever the amount), fish wherever you want, if you go ashore, clear customs, if you dont come home. abide by the fishing regulations of both countries and everything would be good.

[Brand H]

Originally Posted by Brand H

12 miles of the bank and you have to clear. Seems pretty simple to me.

.......................

[gtrfred]

thanks - I can read your post. i was not questioning your comment. In fact I agree with you and abide by that myself - as i mentioned in my post.

The OP comments from customs officials says 13 miles from land which is different than the bank. I have seen other posters on various sites also make the comment about being off from land - not the bank.

so i still say it is not clear or simple.

[Snookher]

We always buy an extended fishing permit the last trip of summer so that we can fish that area, however, no where in in law book does it say land or bank. Everybody has there own comfort zone and if your happy with what your decide to do then keep doing it.
I will question the bahamas agent the next time i head that way.

[Brand H]

Originally Posted by Snookher

We always buy an extended fishing permit the last trip of summer so that we can fish that area, however, no where in in law book does it say land or bank. Everybody has there own comfort zone and if your happy with what your decide to do then keep doing it.
I will question the bahamas agent the next time i head that way.

Yes it does. Straight from Chapter 244 of Bahamian Law.The Government of The Bahamas - Home

12. (1) Subject to subsection (3), where the exclusive fishery zone of The Bahamas meets the limits of the territorial sea, continental shelf or exclusive fishery zone of a neighbouring state, to the extent only to which such limits are recognised by The Bahamas to be validly established pursuant to international law, the Governor-General may initiate and conduct negotiations with that state to establish the boundary of the exclusive fishery zone in relation to the territorial sea, continental shelf or exclusive fishery zone of that state.
Boundaries.

(2) In the absence of agreement on the boundary of the exclusive fishery zone with the territorial sea, continental shelf or exclusive fishery zone with the territorial sea, continental shelf or exclusive fishery zone of a neighbouring state, the following shall be the limits of the exclusive fishery zone-

(a)in the case of the fishery resources of the waters of the exclusive fishery zone, a line every point of which is twelve miles distant from the baseline from which the territorial sea of that state is drawn;
(b)in the case of the fishery resources of the seabed and subsoil-
(i)where there is a continuous continental shelf between The Bahamas and the neighbouring state, a line every point of which is equidistant from the edge of the Great and Little Bahama Banks and the baselines from which the territorial sea limits of that state are drawn, and, in areas other than the Great and Little Bahama Banks, a line every point of which is equidistant from the baselines respectively from which the territorial sea limits of The Bahamas and that state are drawn;
(ii)where there is not a continuous continental shelf between The Bahamas and the neighbouring state, the limits of the continental shelf of that state shall be as determined by international law:
Provided, however, that in contemplation of such agreement being reached the Governor-General may by order fix another limit temporarily or by interim agreement with the neighbouring state.
--------------------------------------------

I'm not trying to be "Johnny Law" here. But I do have something at stake. My privledge to fish in the Bahamas. Some will say "they don't enforce it". I know several folks that could give you their horror stories about being caught. Two of them are members here. They probably won't talk about it.
Like I have said before, to me it is a lot like stealing if I don't pay them their fee to catch their fish.

Snook, they don't sell "extended fishing permits". If I am wrong, please explain because I want one. If you mean that you tell them that you are staying for a longer period of time than you really are, come back home and then go back, you break both US and Bahamian Law. You are required to clear back in the US when you return and clear again when you go back to the Bahamas. Your "fishing permit" that you pay for is good for three months but you still have to clear.

[Harry Klauber]

Brand H posted it "if" you can interpret it. Did you read near the end of the quote where international law is underlined and what it says thereafter about "Temporary limit by interim agreement". There-in enters the EEZ which throws 12/13, whatever, miles out the window and it doesn't matter if it's from land, a bank, or the shelf as the EEZ is 1/2 way between the Bahamas and the US.

There is no fishing permit that can be purchased only a 2 trip/3 month permit that's $150 if your boat is under 35 feet and $300 if your boat is over 35 feet.

I have posted this before, and will do so one last time. IF you choose to run over and back without clearing don't think you are legal just because the Bahamians choose not to enforce the laws as they could. Asking local USCG officials is going to get you a variety of answers and none of them matter.

Remember the Bahamas is a foreign country and they can do whatever they want if they so choose to do it the same as guys can keep running over just because they have never been caught. I hope the wonderful experience of fishing another country's waters does not ever turn into a nightmare for anyone. We all need to keep in kind that a lot more people read this forum than anyone might imagine and publicly posting any intent to violate the law is just not a good idea. I don't mean to come off as a "wet blanket" but in Fox Hill you won't even get a wet blanket if you are cold at night. Harry

[gtrfred]

Brand H - i had never seen it laid out like that before. I have always abided by the 12 mile zone off the bank, but had never seen it in writing.

What you pulled up is absolutely clear. I agree completely that the fishery over there is a privilege and that we should be responsible enough on our own to obey the laws.

In addition, on my last few trips to the islands I have seen an increase in the amount of Bahamian govt presence. So they definitely seem to be stepping up the patrols.

[Brand H]

I never thought about the EEZ part. Thanks for pointing that out Harry. I'm with you gtr, I LOVE going over there and I don't want to see it change for the worse. It is a hassle to clear but they could make it harder if they chose to. One other point, USCG often have Bahamian LEO on their boats when patrolling near the bank. So if you get stopped by USCG, the Bahamian can enforce their laws.

[Captain Juan]

I disagree. I don't think it's that big a hassle to clear/check in over there. I always get extra copies of the forms and have them filled out before I even leave S. Florida. Once in Bimini, Cat, or West End, I just jump off the dock with the passports, vessel registration and all the completed forms in a ziplock bag. It usually takes me anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour to clear. No biggie. I also appreciate their service and ALWAYS tip the immigration and customs persons processing me anywhere from 10 to 20 bills each. They appreciate it, remember you and are more than happy to provide you extra copies of the forms. Once I clear, I further help the local economy there by picking up a couple cases of Kalik (Clear Bottle Becks back in the day ), some killer Bahama bread for our sandwiches and on some occassions some lobster and conch from the lobster man. I hope to go back before the end of the month.

And, clearing here with a Local Master Option card is pretty easy too.

Tight lines.

Juan

[Brand H]

I agree Juan. It aint too bad and you can simplify it by filling stuff out upfront. When I said "hassle", I meant in reference to the corner. Leaving Jupiter and going to the corner by way of West End is a bit of a hassle to me but well worth it.

[Harry Klauber]

Juani,
You've been going over there for so many years and don't want to see your enjoyable times get messed up because they decide to make it more costly, or difficult, to fish there. For anyone that thinks burning some extra fuel to check in is a big deal let me tell you how we fish Cay Sal. We leave from down in the Keys and run to Bimini (70+ miles) and then 110 miles to the SW corner of the bank. Sure it would be alot easier to just hop across from the middle keys but how can you fish comfortably knowing that you are in violation of the law and could lose your boat if you are boarded? I could never enjoy myself always looking at the horizon wondering if the next boat I see is going to be the authorites and we are going to get busted. A cooler full of fish is just not worth the risks. Harry

[Disco Lady]

You guys should pay a visit to (FOX HILL) one day. Then your clearing options will be solved.


DL,

[GT Fish]

There was a KDW tourney back in late 90's early 2000ish..Well some guys decided to run over to the bank and fish illegally..They lost there boat! Posting up wrong info could do the same..I have asked the officials over there and they have always agreed it's 12 NM from any bahama bank.If you have the money and time to lose your boat and be jailed in a foreign countryhave at it..I love my boat to much for stupid decisions..

[sammythebu11]

I always check in. there is no other option.
are the banks marked on the Navionics?
how can you tell in your GPS where 12 miles from the bank is? honest question, not trying to be a smartass.

[GT Fish]

Yeah you can see the bank its shaded in blue usually..My navionics and garmin show it..

[Captain Juan]

Again, when a boat full of armed Bahamians boards you, 8 miles, 12 miles, 13 miles is whatever the heck they want it to be.

The reality is that the best fishing is inside 12 miles just off the bank/drop. You're not going to consistently catch wahoo outside of 12 miles. The only thing you can catch staying outside is tuna. But even for that, the birds and tuna are usually closer to the bank.

My favorite is when people fish the corner and deep drop and catch misties and queens and say they did not check in, 'didn't have to.' Yeah right. Can't deep drop 12 miles off unless you want to pay out 4,000' of line.

Some say it's not worth checking in for a quick day trip. I say it is. I have done many day trips arriving in Bimini or West End right when customs and immigration opens and then fishing all day and returning just before dark. Like Harry said, aint no fun fishing looking over your shoulder or toward the horizon everytime a boat appears.

Tight lines.

Juani

[Snookher]

sometimes its not possible to check in if you draw more water than any of the closest ports of call. if we fish on a smaller boat we clear customs where possible. if walkers would dredge then that could resolve many issues. as from what i can see by everybodys post , everybody has their comfort zones and those guys from fars south florida in center concole boats can make the quick jump into bimini or where ever to fish. i would never suggest to anybody to go to the island and not clear customs. BUt there are also hundreds of boat that fish the north corner from jax to west palm and never clear bahamas customs, sometimes if not posssible to do so if you want to fish for the day. but again do what you feel is right. i will check with the bahamas customs agents when we return. And when you buy a fishing permit its good for 3 months. The area of converstion is certainly on of the discression of the goverening body. either the bahamas or US.

[Snookher]

Last Year, we were involved in a Bahamas and US Search and Rescue mission in the bahamas. MOst of the updated patrol is to stop the illegal immigration of cubans into the US. THe going rate is $5000 a head, the Bahama and US Goverment are trying to stop this reckless Behavior. Oh By the way all 15 people aboard the Boat we were looking for died. All we recoved was bodies of men, women and childern, a very sad site.

[Snookher]

SORRY THIS IS SO LONG BUT READ:
Bahamas : Formalities
Clearance
Arrival
Entry into the Bahamas must be made at one of the official ports of entry, and the yellow Q flag should be flown within three miles of the port. Notify Customs of your arrival and no one should go ashore until pratique has been granted. Clearance must be done on arrival and Customs and Immigration will come to your vessel. Everyone on board must have proof of citizenship and fill out an immigration card (US citizens can present passport or birth certificate, a Driver's Licence is not acceptable).
Regular hours for Bahamas Customs and Immigration Officers are 0900-1700 weekdays. Officers are on call during holidays and weekends. There is no overtime charge.
The Bahamas can be transited without clearing in until one arrives at a port of entry at a convenient time, but during transit one should not enter a port or go ashore.
Entry Fees
Entry fees must be paid by all visiting yachts (see Fees section below for details) and are inclusive of a cruising permit, fishing permit and departure tax for up to four persons (captain plus 3 crew). Each additional person (over the age of 6) will be charged departure tax.
The Cruising Permit is issued for 12 months. The current fees are now valid for multiple entries during any 90-day period, which means that a vessel may leave the Bahamas and re-enter within the first 90 days of a Cruising Permit's validity, without payment of any additional fee. For further details see the Customs section below.
The Fishing Permit is valid for 3 months. Extensions to this cost an additional $150 for 12 months.
There are no overtime or other charges. One should obtain an official receipt for all fees paid.
On some of the outer islands, the customs officer may handle all formalities, but in Nassau and other larger ports both the customs and immigration officials must be seen. Officials should come to the yacht, but in smaller islands the captain will have to go ashore to find them. Crew must remain on board until clearance is completed. If clearing in at a marina, the marina personnel will call customs and immigration after arrival.
Paperwork
Duplicate copies of Maritime Declaration of Health, Inward Report for Pleasure Vessels and crew lists will have to be filled in. A temporary cruising permit for the yacht valid for one year will be granted. This document must remain on board at all times. See Documents for cruising permit extensions.
Every crew member must complete an immigration card, so they may have to accompany the skipper to sign the individual forms.
The Bahamas Customs Clearance form is available in PDF form at the Bahamas website
The Immigration Arrival Card is not available on-line, but both forms can be obtained from
The Bahamas Tourist Office, 1200 S. Pine Island Road, Plantation, FL.
Phone: 954-236-9212. They will mail the forms to you if you request it.
Penalties are severe (fines, imprisonment, confiscation of the boat) for not clearing customs and immigration.
Customs
Cruising Permits
The Cruising Permit, form C39, (transire) is issued on arrival is valid for 12 months. The current fees now permit multiple entries during any 90-day period, which means that a vessel may leave the Bahamas and re-enter as many times as they like within the first 90 days of a Cruising Permit's validity, without payment of any additional fee.
The cruising permit gives permission to visit all other islands in the Bahamas archipelago. The permit must be presented to officials if requested at any port visited or if boarded by the Royal Bahamas Defence Force. The permit must be retained on board at all times until the cruise is finished, then handed back at the port of exit. If for any reason one is unable to clear outbound, which is not required, the permit should be mailed back from the next destination. Immigration papers should also be returned on exit.
Last updated June 2009.
Bahamas Customs Department
Old NIB Building, P.O. Box N-155, Nassau, Bahamas
Tel:+242 326 4401-6 / +242 325 6551-4
www.bahamas.gov.bs, cofolle@batelnet.bs

[gtrfred]

so from reading all that, the question that i have is - I go clear and check in. this says that i can come and go from the islands as often as i want in the first 90 days on the same fee. I assume that I have to check in each time i come and go.

it says that a fishing permit is good for 3 months.

If i go and check in and get the fishing permit, then leave the country, does my fishing permit become invalid until I reclear upon my second arrival? Or is it good for 90 days?

it is also interesting that they will extend the permit for 12 months for an extra $150. I was under the impression that you couldnt keep you boat in the bahamas for more than 6 months straight without paying an import duty on it.

but at the end of the day, its what does the guy on bahamian defense force boat with the gun think is rule? I dont want to be arguing technicalities with him.

[sammythebu11]

the permit is good for 3 months, if you leave, you can come back ONCE more during the 90 days, if you want to come back a third time it's going to cost you another 150$.

Regulations - Bahamas | The Bahamas

[Tunaking]

See The Government of The Bahamas - Home for definition of EEZ and other laws...

Originally Posted by Snookher

SORRY THIS IS SO LONG BUT READ:
Bahamas : Formalities
Clearance
Arrival
Entry into the Bahamas must be made at one of the official ports of entry, and the yellow Q flag should be flown within three miles of the port. Notify Customs of your arrival and no one should go ashore until pratique has been granted. Clearance must be done on arrival and Customs and Immigration will come to your vessel. Everyone on board must have proof of citizenship and fill out an immigration card (US citizens can present passport or birth certificate, a Driver's Licence is not acceptable).
Regular hours for Bahamas Customs and Immigration Officers are 0900-1700 weekdays. Officers are on call during holidays and weekends. There is no overtime charge.
The Bahamas can be transited without clearing in until one arrives at a port of entry at a convenient time, but during transit one should not enter a port or go ashore.
Entry Fees
Entry fees must be paid by all visiting yachts (see Fees section below for details) and are inclusive of a cruising permit, fishing permit and departure tax for up to four persons (captain plus 3 crew). Each additional person (over the age of 6) will be charged departure tax.
The Cruising Permit is issued for 12 months. The current fees are now valid for multiple entries during any 90-day period, which means that a vessel may leave the Bahamas and re-enter within the first 90 days of a Cruising Permit's validity, without payment of any additional fee. For further details see the Customs section below.
The Fishing Permit is valid for 3 months. Extensions to this cost an additional $150 for 12 months. There are no overtime or other charges. One should obtain an official receipt for all fees paid.
On some of the outer islands, the customs officer may handle all formalities, but in Nassau and other larger ports both the customs and immigration officials must be seen. Officials should come to the yacht, but in smaller islands the captain will have to go ashore to find them. Crew must remain on board until clearance is completed. If clearing in at a marina, the marina personnel will call customs and immigration after arrival.
Paperwork
Duplicate copies of Maritime Declaration of Health, Inward Report for Pleasure Vessels and crew lists will have to be filled in. A temporary cruising permit for the yacht valid for one year will be granted. This document must remain on board at all times. See Documents for cruising permit extensions.
Every crew member must complete an immigration card, so they may have to accompany the skipper to sign the individual forms.
The Bahamas Customs Clearance form is available in PDF form at the Bahamas website
The Immigration Arrival Card is not available on-line, but both forms can be obtained from
The Bahamas Tourist Office, 1200 S. Pine Island Road, Plantation, FL.
Phone: 954-236-9212. They will mail the forms to you if you request it.
Penalties are severe (fines, imprisonment, confiscation of the boat) for not clearing customs and immigration.
Customs
Cruising Permits
The Cruising Permit, form C39, (transire) is issued on arrival is valid for 12 months. The current fees now permit multiple entries during any 90-day period, which means that a vessel may leave the Bahamas and re-enter as many times as they like within the first 90 days of a Cruising Permit's validity, without payment of any additional fee.
The cruising permit gives permission to visit all other islands in the Bahamas archipelago. The permit must be presented to officials if requested at any port visited or if boarded by the Royal Bahamas Defence Force. The permit must be retained on board at all times until the cruise is finished, then handed back at the port of exit. If for any reason one is unable to clear outbound, which is not required, the permit should be mailed back from the next destination. Immigration papers should also be returned on exit.
Last updated June 2009.Bahamas Customs Department
Old NIB Building, P.O. Box N-155, Nassau, Bahamas
Tel:+242 326 4401-6 / +242 325 6551-4
www.bahamas.gov.bs, cofolle@batelnet.bs

[Brand H]

That article contradicts anything that I have ever heard or experienced there and contradicts their laws. Who knows????

[gtrfred]

From their laws
The Government of The Bahamas - Home

law 12 as referenced in another post defines territories and says 12 miles from the bank.

7. No foreign fishing is authorised within the exclusive fishery zone for any fishery resource in respect of which The Bahamas exercises the sovereignty and authority specified in section 6 unless such foreign fishing-
Foreign fishing.

(a)is authorised by virtue of a treaty to which The Bahamas is a party and such treaty is made subject to sections 8 and 10 and is conducted under and in accordance with a valid licence granted by the Minister under section 9;
(b)is authorised by the Minister and is conducted by a vessel owned or operated by an international organisation of which The Bahamas is a member;
(c)is authorised by the Minister and is conducted for scientific or research purposes under the authority of and in accordance with the terms and conditions of a permit in that behalf granted by the Minister to the person operating the vessel;
(d)is conducted for sporting purposes in accordance with any regulations made under this Act, by a vessel which has first made entry in respect of the voyage on which it is engaged at a port of entry in The Bahamas or by a vessel which has been imported into The Bahamas or constructed in The Bahamas.


so that reads to me to say that even though your permit is good for 3 months, it must be "reactivated" (for lack of a better term) once you leave the bahamas, so that you must check in again (whether it be free or not) before that fishing permit becomes valid again.


So much easier to charge an annual fishing permit per vessel for $$XXX and then you can fish where you want w/o issue. But then again the US doesnt ask for my opinion on our laws either.

[OBAMA]

It is the EEZ that is important if you decide to fish; 12 miles if you are
just cruising through. cheers, O

[weekley rehab]

this is all getting very confusing. I agree it would be much easier if we could pay a yearly fee, and get to just check in when we come back through each time.

[edk]

Originally Posted by Brand H

That article contradicts anything that I have ever heard or experienced there and contradicts their laws. Who knows????

That article is not from a Bahamas government website (a Google search shows its source as http://www.noonsite.com/Countries/Ba...rc=Formalities). It is full of inaccuracies - much of the information is patently wrong. I think that the original poster of that information is clutching at straws in an attempt to justify traveling to the Bahamas without checking in. There are websites that promote the idea that income tax is unconstitutional in the US - and there are people that followed that advice that ended up in jail.

Here is a link to an official Bahamas website that covers cruising permits. The cruising permit itself actually says that the boat must be taken out of the Bahamas within 6 months.

http://www.bahamas.gov.bs/bahamasweb...2573A200614399

Ed