Giant Bluefin endangered?

[Broadbill-Pro]

Seems that maybe the Fisherman have been right all along and the Scientist need to go back to the drawing board.


CHATHAM — Giant tuna have been in short supply off the Cape in recent years. In early October there was a bit of a bite, and a number of locals and out-of-towners took advantage and then went home or put their boats away.

“Then whammo!” said Jimmy Fallon, a computer guru who is hooked on tuna fishing.

The weekend after the presidential election, giants galore appeared off Chatham: huge schools of bluefin tuna that, according to the fish stories, were virtually throwing themselves into boats.

Some guys were catching tuna that reached upward of 1,200 pounds, and at $10 to $17 a pound, depending on several criteria (size, shape, color, fat content and general appearance), that’s a pretty tidy sum of money.

What was even better, said Fallon, is that those trolling the waters in the tuna rush were all local, and most were commercial fishermen who are looking at a long, hard winter ahead.

“Guys are giddy,” Fallon said. “We haven’t had this kind of bite this close to Chatham in a very long time.”

“What just happened is pretty much unheard of,” agreed fish buyer Robert Fitzpatrick of Magura America Inc. “It’s a good shot in the arm.”

His company, one of several on the Cape, has brokered 98 tuna from the so-called “Chatham bite,” sending the chilled headless, tailless, finless fish through Federal Express out of Logan Airport, or trucking them to New York’s JFK airport to get a passenger flight to Japan. Either way they arrive at auctions overseas a few short days after they leave the water. Some remain in the United States for markets in Los Angeles, New York and Boston.

The excitement builds
The excitement at the fish pier and docks at Stage Harbor was reminiscent of a decade ago when boats waited in line to unload their catch and crowds would descend to see the huge fish hoisted up to be measured and weighed. The tuna that arrived in the summer and stayed for a while were once a big part of the economy around the elbow of the Cape. Even small groceries and sub shops near the waterfront were able to thrive in the early fall because of the crowds and the cash.

The giants were dubbed “Toyotas” because fishermen were able to buy a foreign truck with the money they earned from the sale.

But the tuna bonanza began to drop off by 2000 and by 2003 it was difficult to find any of the giants around.

“It’s been horrific,” said Fitzpatrick, who has been in the tuna buying business since 1991, but recently had to diversify because fishermen weren’t catching enough of the fish.

This year things were looking up even before the recent bite, he said. His company had already sold about 250 fish, which is much better than in recent years. That number doesn’t compare to the 1,000 or so it sold in the company’s heyday. Some say the absence of tuna is due to the depletion of herring, a favorite food of the blue fin, by large factory trawlers that suck up legions of the fish. Others point to the growing number of dogfish, which are protected by regulations and compete for the bait. Still others say it is a combination of factors, but all agree big tuna has been in short supply here.

“If you didn’t look at Canada you’d say the fish have disappeared,” said Molly Lutcavage, of the Large Pelagic Research Laboratory at the University of New Hampshire.

She has been studying tuna for years and noticed that although the fish over the Hague Line in United States waters were small, those in Canada were getting larger.

“So there may be a change in distribution,” she said, adding that question is one of many about the fascinating fish that her team is trying to answer through pop-up tags and cooperation with fishermen.

Overfishing
Overfishing has also been a problem. Eastern nations, around the Mediterranean Sea, are decimating their tuna populations, which “no doubt” affects our fish, said Lutcuvage.

An international Convention of Atlantic Tuna, ICAT, meeting, which started this week, was expected to rein in fishing in the east. The west, including the United States and Canada, has had stringent controls in place for years.

“Overfishing is not occurring in the west,” she said, adding that fishermen have barely caught 20 percent of the quota in recent years.

Locally, the shift in population could be related to a change in food availability for the fish at the top of the food chain, and to buttress that theory local tuna fishermen point out that mid-water herring trawl pairs are banned in Canada.

This year it seemed that finding quality bait in the area was no problem for the tuna. A November bite is “atypical” said Lutcavage, but the season has been a little weird as well, adds Bob Prescott, director of Mass Audubon’s Wellfleet Bay Wildlife Sanctuary.

“The water is still warm and there is a ton of bait,” he said. “I think it was a late season all around.”

There’s a lot of saury – a long, slender, silver fish – in the area as well as squid and a few other tuna tasties, Prescott explained, adding that butterfish, which can arrive on Cape as early as late July, didn’t show until the last week in August.

Tuna don’t have to be out of here, he said. If there is food to be had they’ll stay.

“It’s just a feeding frenzy,” he said.


A ‘true oceanic spectacle’
The sight of the “apex carnivore” feeding can be as spectacular as a whale watch. “It is really one of the true oceanic spectacles,” Prescott said. “They are definitely charismatic.”

Fallon won’t disagree about the allure of the big fish; he is hooked on the hunt. He caught a 500-pounder last week, one of the smaller ones, he said. By the time he got out to the grounds on Monday, around 7:30 a.m., there were boats that already had two tuna – the limit is three a day – hanging off the side.

He may have been a little jealous, but that paled in comparison to the empathy he felt for guys who fought for hours with a fish, only to have it escape the line.

“Some guys lost four fish … that’s brutal,” he said.
Another sad reality is since the weather has changed and the ocean has gotten a bit snotty, it looks like the tuna bonanza is over.

“I think it is going to end,” Fallon said.
Commercial fisherman Tom Smith confirmed that unhappy premise. He was out almost every day during the rush and was able to snag three that weighed more than 1,000 pounds. He went out again earlier this week and saw some other boats, but no tuna.

[Another Grand]

I heard about that...

Pretty sick bite

[Broadbill-Pro]

The U.S. General category catch has already more than doubled the entire 2007 catch by November 17 and we still have the North Carolina December fishery to add to our total. As of 11/17, 897 fish weighing a total of 208.8 mt. have been reported. Last year at this time 102 mt had been caught.

A similar positive situation has occurred in the harpoon category with a catch of 22.1 mt as of 11/7/08 compared to 12.1 last year.

Average weight has increased significantly in the general category from 427 lbs. in 2007 to 513 lbs. in 2007. The average size of fish caught in the harpoon category in 2008 is remarkably identical to the 2007 size of 359 lbs.






Good fishing is an Environmentalists worse enemy.

[tunaman81]

What exactly is your point? Giant bluefin in the Atlantic are still in serious trouble, despite a good local bite in Massachusetts.

[PUMPKIN]

Read Here:

Tuna on the Brink | WBUR and NPR's On Point with Tom Ashbrook

Note, one good bite does not a healthy, sustainable GBFT poplulation make.

Frank

[ameristrat]

I think we're all just trying to be hopeful that the bluefin tuna population is in less critical condition than we thought... still have to do something about it though...

[Broadbill-Pro]

Originally Posted by tunaman81

What exactly is your point? Giant bluefin in the Atlantic are still in serious trouble, despite a good local bite in Massachusetts.

What is your basis for saying they are in "serious trouble" ? Do you have better information than a good local bite?

Canada has not experienced the decline that the US has over the past few years and HMS has been told over and over again that the problem is bait "herring" and the abundance of dogfish. During the decline whenever bait was present so were the fish.

My point is that all the data isn't worth a hill of beans if the fish make you look like a fool in the end.

I respect your dedication to trying to understand migratory species, but at the end of the day all you have is theory. Science can not explain what we can not see or count. Unfortunatly we have to depend on the "best science" available which often proves to be incorrect.

[mneptune]

Vinnie,

Excuse my ignorance, but I do not need to hear from a scientist to know that the most threatening species on this planet are human beings. Humans take, take and then take more until there are no stocks left and the breeding populations are devastated; then the commericals blame someone or something else for the occurrence. As I have said many times before on this forum I do not mind commercial fishing, everyone deserves the right to make a living, it is only the "quotas" and methods of harvest that I have a problem with. I honestly believe the real anwer to the true balance of nearly every speices on this planet comes down to the "human equation" of profit and greed.

Again, keep in mind that I am not anti-commericial, I am just "anti-greed" and the forced extinction of life forms that we have no right to diminsh.

Again, only my most humble opinon.

Martin

[tunaman81]

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

What is your basis for saying they are in "serious trouble" ? Do you have better information than a good local bite?

I will believe bluefin are on the rebound when they start returning to decent numbers throughout their range (ie NJ, the Bahamas, the Med). Bluefin are still missing in any great numbers from areas where they were found in good numbers in the past. All the data we have points to the fact that bluefin are in trouble and stocks are low.

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

Canada has not experienced the decline that the US has over the past few years and HMS has been told over and over again that the problem is bait "herring" and the abundance of dogfish. During the decline whenever bait was present so were the fish.

This is just a theory as well.

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

My point is that all the data isn't worth a hill of beans if the fish make you look like a fool in the end.

I respect your dedication to trying to understand migratory species, but at the end of the day all you have is theory. Science can not explain what we can not see or count. Unfortunatly we have to depend on the "best science" available which often proves to be incorrect.

The point is that one good bite that lasts for a few weeks in a small area does not mean the stock is recovered, or even close. It really doesn't mean much in the big picture. Bluefin have been in trouble for many years, yet there has still been a viable fishery off NC.

[tunaman81]

"His company had already sold about 250 fish, which is much better than in recent years. That number doesn’t compare to the 1,000 or so it sold in the company’s heyday."

Quoted from the article you posted. Again, we are talking historic numbers. While this may seem like a good bite compared to the recent past, according to this company they are still only 25% of what they sold when the stocks were in better shape.

[Darkside]

Bluefins are not doing very good worldwide and the bite wasn't weeks it was 4 days.

[Broadbill-Pro]

Surprised I could only get a few bites on this issue, anyway I started some flames to see where it would go.

Justin,

Until you start spending months a sea, you will never understand the enormity of the oceans nor the realm that migratory species travel. We could set sail for 10 days east of any US Atlantic port and find swordfish, tuna, marlin or sharks so abundant that your jaw would hit the floor and at any given time 100 vessels would be seeing the same thing over several thousand miles.

Yes, swordfish were recovering before the closures and bluefin piled thru the Bahamas this years and now have made an appearence in the NE without modifications to the current regulations. The Canada report is not theory, it is fish landed and they have not experienced the decline that we had on our side of the fence.

I can not tell you that Bluefin stocks are in good condition no better than you can tell me that they are in decline. Near coastal interaction is hardly enough to determine the health of a species. If we are to always side with caution, then close it down to everyone. Surely then we will know that the stock is rebuilding.

Drew,

4 days or 4 months, the fact is that the fish showed up, they fed and then they moved on or they stopped feeding. You do believe that school of fish still exists and is somewhere else at the moment, don't you? Just because fish are not back where you historically caught them, has no bearing on their existence.

Are we so shallow minded to believe that what we do not see does not exist?

99.9% of the oceans have no hooks in them at the moment and most of that area is home to tuna and swordfish.

[quack quack]

I know for a fact the bite was for more than 4 days. Bluefin in all age classes are on the rise on this side of the pond.If the stock was 100% separate from the Med stock I would agree.But they have been proved to go over to the Med stock and mingle.So while the Western schools might be on the rise the Eastern fish are still under way to much pressure.

Vinny are you saying we should alter our current regs on bluefin?

[tunaman81]

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

Justin,

Until you start spending months a sea, you will never understand the enormity of the oceans nor the realm that migratory species travel. We could set sail for 10 days east of any US Atlantic port and find swordfish, tuna, marlin or sharks so abundant that your jaw would hit the floor and at any given time 100 vessels would be seeing the same thing over several thousand miles.

With all do respect, that really has nothing to do with the argument at hand. The truth is the advent of electronic tags over the past 10 years has shed more light on the movement and behavior of migratory species, stock structure, ect over long periods of time. This is especially true with bluefin, which have been tagged with many electronic tags.

I would also imagine the abundace of fish was also do to some oceanographic condition be it structure or an eddy/temp break. You should know fish are not uniformly distributed through the entire volume of the ocean.

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

Yes, swordfish were recovering before the closures and bluefin piled thru the Bahamas this years and now have made an appearence in the NE without modifications to the current regulations. The Canada report is not theory, it is fish landed and they have not experienced the decline that we had on our side of the fence.

I wouldn't say that the bluefin "piled" through the Bahamas this year, at least not in respect to historic levels. I was also referring to the belief that a lack of bluefin is directly as result of the lack of herring or competition with dogfish, and that IS a theory.

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

I can not tell you that Bluefin stocks are in good condition no better than you can tell me that they are in decline. Near coastal interaction is hardly enough to determine the health of a species. If we are to always side with caution, then close it down to everyone. Surely then we will know that the stock is rebuilding.

Its obvious the stock is not in good condition. For the most part, bluefin have not returned to areas where they were historically abundant in any appreciable numbers (yes, they get a few giants off NJ every year, however not even close to the numbers when the stocks were in better shape). Stock assessments have shown numbers to be low as well. All the evidence points to the fact that bluefin are in trouble, and I think that is something both fishermen and scientists agree on for the most part.

As for closing it for US fishermen, I dont think that would solve the problem as a large chunk of mortality is a result of foreign fleets.

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

Drew,

4 days or 4 months, the fact is that the fish showed up, they fed and then they moved on or they stopped feeding. You do believe that school of fish still exists and is somewhere else at the moment, don't you? Just because fish are not back where you historically caught them, has no bearing on their existence.

Again, some fish showed up for a short period of time. The fact that there was a short run of bluefin of Massachusetts says nothing about the stock size or health. In fact, the guy in the article even said that while this was a good run it was only about 25% of historical catches.

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

Are we so shallow minded to believe that what we do not see does not exist?

The better questions is, how long are willing to ignore the evidence that stares us in the face?

[Broadbill-Pro]

Bad fishing has no bearing on stock assessment, that is why I take the numbers with a grain of salt. If I had a nickle for everytime a 1/2 mile move made the difference between catching nothing and 10,000 pounds I would have a lot of nickles.

Yes, there was a time when much greater numbers where caught, there was also a time when it was not necessary to hang a bluefish from a kite to catch them. Fish evolve and fishing techniques of yester-year do not always apply.

Fish are a renewable resource and my experience tells me it does not take long (in years) for new recruitment to fill in the blanks. While the rest of the World takes advantage of the resource, the US will hold up the umbrella of conservation while all the time allowing the same body of fish to be imported into our markets (all species).

[quack quack]

The bluefin bite in Canada was off the hook as well.The fish were in shallow along with the bait.The small herring dragger's were in there working the bait.Anytime they would haul back you would have a school of giants behind the boat.The guys that fished crushed them every time.The guys I know that were up there are some of if not the best giant fisherman in the world.They said it was like the 70s again up there.They would pull the fish of the dragger and hand feed them till they ran out of bait!!! I have seen the pics and they are incredible!! Not my pics so do not ask me to post.

[Broadbill-Pro]

[quack quack]

Better pics than that!!!

[RiskTaker]

I am neither an experienced Bluefin Tuna fisherman nor a seasoned scientist but if I were to take notes from both perspectives my predispositon would squarely fall into the camp of the Bluefin tuna as an overfished species.

It does make sense to regulate the harvesting of these fish by using effective strategies. And Broad-Billl Pro brings up a thought provoking comment: what good is it for the benefit of a common stock of fish, for the U.S. to be conservation minded, yet permit the imports of the same stock of fish when caught by other countries. Certainly, it would be a complicated subject matter to close that loop-hole.

From my casual observations, it seems to appear that European nations apply heavy pressure to the Atlantic stock, particularly including those found in the Meditteranean Sea, as well. Many of these may ultimately be for the importation benefit of Japan, as they appear to demonstrate an insatiable demand for the Bluefin tuna species.

I guess that is Strike One for Sushi lovers from all nations around the globe? Or is it just a pure global demand for Tuna protein, whether it be Sashimi, steaked for cooking, canned by the pallet load, or a pet food ingredient for Tigger the P-CAT?

Nevertheless, I want to have a bite of that fine grade Bluefin tuna fish, in balanced measure, say with a chop-stick. So that leads to the next question.....

Does anyone know when and where the Bluefin schools are as they pass south past our latitudes in South Florida? Are they passing in the Gulfstream waters on their trip to the GOM for the call of reproduction? Are they passing primarily to the outside of the Bahamas, within reach of the recreational fishing vessels? Are they all headed to the GOM or is their another breeding ground to the east in the littler latitudes?

After all the internet buzz about recreational catches of swordfish over the past 5 years on Swordfishing Central you would think that there would be some good information on the southerly tuna migration if it coincided within the Swordfishing grounds. Where are these fish at and when do they pass through here?

I would certainly be interested in catching a Bluefin tuna (Say at least 1 every now and then) after they have fattened up in the northern waters.

Every once in a while you hear of the South Florida Swordfisherman getting spooled out and about the W79:52-46.xx in the winter months. Could these occasional run-a-ways be Bluefin tunas, or perhaps just big sharks and/or big mama swordfish?

Even though there is great concern over the plite of the Bluefin tuna stock, it stands to reason that recreational fishing (rod&reel and excluding netting) impact is negligible, as this is probably an even smaller drop in the bucket of the overall international harvest.

I would like to see who will be the first this year to post a photo in the galley or fishing report of a Bluefin Tuna caught in the Atlantic side on the southerly migration, from the Palm Beach to Key West latitudes. They have to be out front somewhere getting to this time of the year.

[Broadbill-Pro]

Originally Posted by RiskTaker

Does anyone know when and where the Bluefin schools are as they pass south past our latitudes in South Florida? Are they passing in the Gulfstream waters on their trip to the GOM for the call of reproduction? Are they passing primarily to the outside of the Bahamas, within reach of the recreational fishing vessels? Are they all headed to the GOM or is their another breeding ground to the east in the littler latitudes?

In the winter a great number of Bluefin migrate North of the Abacos and along the East side of the Bahamas. These fish find their way into the passes on both sides of Hispaniola. Very little is known about these fish, but they do exist in abundance. I consistantly caught them year after year.

When Eastern Atlantic catches are referred to, generally terms like "unreported overage" are used, I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed but the word "unreported" to me is the same as saying "we have no idea what is being caught".

There is a huge body of Bluefin in the NE at the moment, they may be heading South or East out of hooks way. They do exist and were believed to have been wiped out. It does not matter how many science degrees one has, that fact remains.

[FinalPoint]

Originally Posted by quack quack

not my pics so do not ask me to post.

POST DAMMIT!
need my fish porn.

[quack quack]

Sorry Pat can not do that.

[Tuna Devil]

Come on Ma Duck!



:r ofl:

[Harry Klauber]

So the possible answers seems simple
1. The bluefin are in fine shape but are smarter than the fish of years ago as they are not being caught, or seen, in the same numbers as years ago. 1% chance
2. The bluefin are in fine shape and are constantly chasing bait which is less prevalent so they are all spread out all over the world and we have no freakin idea about just how many there might. 5% chance as years ago there were few herring and they ate the heck out of bluefish which there are now as many of as ever.
3. The bluefin are in trouble and Vinnie figures if no other countries are willing to go the conservative route why should we and he is pushing his experience in the field to get us to think as he does. Do you think? 94% chance.

I lived in NY until 72 and when I was young we had huge runs of all size BFT every fall. I caught my first giant in 58 when I was just 14. At the same time we were catching the Bahamas saw lots of fish in the April/May time frame. In the later 70's I fished with my buddy out of Chatham on his 35 foot Bruno when we both baited and stuck fish at times with aerial assistance. There were 3 seiners with "grandfathered" permits working Cape Cod Bay and when they would wrap a good school the stick boats would stay at the floats and harpoon the fish that actually jumped over the float line. I caught my thousand pounder and the same day there must have been 100 fish taken between the fleet off Chatham and the "moonie" fleet that lived on Stellwagen. The "Cookie" with the Murray boys was the best boat out there and now I don't think they even fish the tuna anymore. Their catches were memorable to say the least. My friends those days and numbers have not been seen since so is it #1, 2, or 3 that is the reason. I know what I think. Harry

[captpepin]

Originally Posted by Harry Klauber

I lived in NY until 72 and when I was young we had huge runs of all size BFT every fall. I caught my first giant in 58 when I was just 14. At the same time we were catching the Bahamas saw lots of fish in the April/May time frame. In the later 70's I fished with my buddy out of Chatham on his 35 foot Bruno when we both baited and stuck fish at times with aerial assistance. There were 3 seiners with "grandfathered" permits working Cape Cod Bay and when they would wrap a good school the stick boats would stay at the floats and harpoon the fish that actually jumped over the float line. I caught my thousand pounder and the same day there must have been 100 fish taken between the fleet off Chatham and the "moonie" fleet that lived on Stellwagen. The "Cookie" with the Murray boys was the best boat out there and now I don't think they even fish the tuna anymore. Their catches were memorable to say the least. My friends those days and numbers have not been seen since so is it #1, 2, or 3 that is the reason. I know what I think. Harry

I fish in Pt Judith RI I'm 39 and I started fishing for Giants around 1980. The fish were so thick off Block island, Nomans and Butterfish Hole you could walk on them. Every June we would see thousands of Giants migrating in many many Saturdays in the 80's Pt Judith took on over 50 fish and Montaulk probably took in over 100. I remember in 1984 a friend of mine 10 days in a row and limited out on his boat every day and on on 8 of those days went back out on a second boat and limited out 8 of the ten days on the second boat. At age 13 we had a fish in the boat at 9:00 am and then my dad out me in the chair and they hooked me up 12 additional times in one day. From 87 on the fishing got exponentially worse every year. In the 90's we had to go to Cape Cod bay to get a bite.

Also freak bites happen around 89 there was a mad dog bite in the NJ mude hole for about 20 days in July which has never been seen before or after that bite. We drove down there and went 13 fish in 14 days.

The sick part about it is that the fishing I saw in the 80's was actually bad compared to the fishing that went on in the 50's-70's. To catch my fish we had to go 18-40 miles back then they went 1 mile with no chum.

[Harry Klauber]

Originally Posted by captpepin

I fish in Pt Judith RI I'm 39 and I started fishing for Giants around 1980. The fish were so thick off Block island, Nomans and Butterfish Hole you could walk on them. Every June we would see thousands of Giants migrating in many many Saturdays in the 80's Pt Judith took on over 50 fish and Montaulk probably took in over 100. I remember in 1984 a friend of mine 10 days in a row and limited out on his boat every day and on on 8 of those days went back out on a second boat and limited out 8 of the ten days on the second boat. At age 13 we had a fish in the boat at 9:00 am and then my dad out me in the chair and they hooked me up 12 additional times in one day. From 87 on the fishing got exponentially worse every year. In the 90's we had to go to Cape Cod bay to get a bite.

Also freak bites happen around 89 there was a mad dog bite in the NJ mude hole for about 20 days in July which has never been seen before or after that bite. We drove down there and went 13 fish in 14 days.

The sick part about it is that the fishing I saw in the 80's was actually bad compared to the fishing that went on in the 50's-70's. To catch my fish we had to go 18-40 miles back then they went 1 mile with no chum.

So are you saying that from your experience you think it might be #3? Harry

[tunaman81]

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

Bad fishing has no bearing on stock assessment, that is why I take the numbers with a grain of salt. If I had a nickle for everytime a 1/2 mile move made the difference between catching nothing and 10,000 pounds I would have a lot of nickles.

We are talking about declining catches over decades, not just on a per trip basis. We are also talking about the efforts of many vessels as well.

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

Yes, there was a time when much greater numbers where caught,

That should tell you something.

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

there was also a time when it was not necessary to hang a bluefish from a kite to catch them. Fish evolve and fishing techniques of yester-year do not always apply. .

New techniques evolve, but when tuna are present they will eat chunked menhaden, butterfish ect. We catch tuna inshore and at the canyons on the same chunk baits year after year. I would highly doubt that tuna have "evolved" to not eat certain baits that have been productive for decades. Additionally, evolution does not work that way, or in that quick a period of time.

Originally Posted by Broadbill-Pro

Fish are a renewable resource and my experience tells me it does not take long (in years) for new recruitment to fill in the blanks.

This is an overgeneralization. Recruitment and maturity differ by species (even in the same family), so you cannot make a blanket statement like this.

Bluefin are more susceptible to overfishing than other, faster growing tunas. Yellowfin grow rather quickly and mature at about 3-4 years. Bluefin are slow growing and long-lived and are believed to take 8-12 years to mature.

Again, Like Captpepin mentioned, bluefin tuna just have not returned to areas they were traditionally common in the numbers that were found 20-30 years ago. This is a positive development, but I still think bluefin stocks are in trouble.

[ameristrat]

I agree that bluefin stocks are in danger. Boradbill-pro is right though in his statement that we really have no idea where the stocks are and there is no way for us to know exactly how critical or okay the stocks are. Anything short of draining the ocean and counting them is not accurate enough for us to make an accurate statement about the bluefin's endangerment.

[billspilingup]

All I know is one of my fishing goals is to own a 43 Merritt and catch a bluefin in Bimini/Cat Cay, preferably with myself behind the wheel.

[Broadbill-Pro]

Jason,

I suppose my intent was to raise the question that possibly the bfin issue is not all negitive. As I stated before. I can not tell you the state of the stock and this years "resurgence" certainly raises more questions than answers. You on the other hand believe you have it all figured out. I will tell you again, the longer you study fish the more they will make a fool out of you.

The guy's who sit behind the desks never want to talk about alternate migration patterns. If by chance bluefin were migrating 100nm east of the Abacos, where would you get your data from? Nobody fishes there, but we know that Bfin are known to travel East of the Bahamas.

If I had to use Harry's method of percentages, the best science we have falls short of 50/50.


Harry,

I have no dog in the Bfin fight and I certainly am not trying to sway your opinion. Your story is grand and you should be proud of your accomplishments, but if you are trying to tell me that:

1. Bfin have not evolved in regard to catching methods and that they could possibly be under your boat and still not be seen. You are mistaken. I have caught 40 fish in a single day and never saw a fish on the surface.

2. If the lack of bait or lack of preferred bait has no bearing on holding tuna in an area. Then tell my why Canada has been catching during our decline? Abundance of feed has been known to alter or delay migration patterns.

In the good old days that you refer to off the Northeast, we had Russian net boats in the mud hole off Jersey scooping millions of football Bfin, there were Jap PLL's all along the East Coast and GOM and after November 1 the Canadians allowed the Jap fleet to devistate Bfin inside thier EEZ. In all there was probably more pressure on the stock during the 60' and 70's than there is today inside our EEZ and yet you had stories of fish jumping in the boat.

I don't catch them anymore, I don't eat them and I don't sell them. So in your opinion just why is it that there is a 94% chance that I want you to think like me?

If you get too close to a skunk, you just might start to smell like one. Your last post smells a lot like a Beast.