Lesson learned using Spectra Braid

[RiskTaker]

Capt. Jim:

Certainly I have no problem with your disagreements on recommended approaches. Keep them coming please, because it creates contrasting points of view to think about. Typically when all the bases are covered a "best fit" solution can be found or selected from several options.

First I agree that even a single layer of mono will provide the traction necessary to prevent the nearly stretch-less braid from slipping on the metallic spool; although, I have mentioned somewhere along the posts that it is necessary to have either a catch pin and/or a double sided adhesive backing to prevent the spectra from slipping around the base of the spool if you do not elect to use a mono starter wrap.

My primary recommendation was to avoid the mono base (100-200 yds.) to enable a larger amount of braid to pack on the spool. If you have your line properly tied around a pin there will be no problem with slipage, even if you skip the mono skin coat. And for convenience, you do not need to create a braid/mono knot, or a finger cuff connection in the case of using hollow core. (But don't use a crimp, use a hand tied serve and glue to make the connection - crimps will corrode away after a while, especially when buried inside of a salty spool of line.)

Everything else I also agree are valid perspectives.

I initially got my 50 wides primarily for swordfishing. But after a bunch of reading I also got the notion (thanks Scott Bannerott) that the 50 wide is one of the most formidable pieces of fishing tackle on the planet. It is light enough for stand-up, yet it can all hall in 95% of the fish in the ocean if properly fortified. This may also include a broad base of tunas and large sharks. I would prefer to pull a hook, 1st, before getting spooled 2nd, and before popping a line or any other linkage failure, 3rd. For me the over-rated line is my back-up reserve for when special needs may arise. A Power-house packed into a little 50# class stand-up rod. (And the right price, just twisted my arm, so I could not refuse.)

BTW - Some of the guys in Dade/Broward fish for swords with a standard 25-30 lbs. of drag. This will usaully turn a big fish in a couple of hours, if not sooner. Granted a hook-up in the soft of the mouth or a foul hook may only withstand pressures up to 15 lbs. before giving way. Seems like that may be an acceptable loss for some of the guys that get out all the time. But a nice jaw hook or down the hatch hook will hold up pretty good.

[Relentless33]

If I didn't want the large 100-200 yard backer of mono but enough only to securely cover the spool how many yards do you think would be necessary ??

[The BEAST]

Risk Taker,

Total agreement here on the 50W. Loaded with 80# braid it is a lethal combination in all but the most extreme of cases in the western Atlantic Ocean.

Capt. Jim
The BEAST

[Relentless33]

Sorry guys, but I cant get it through on how the lighter line is $200 more

:shock: :shock: :shock:

[RiskTaker]

Relentless:

Yeah, I am still scratching my head too. I used to think, or perhaps had it explained to me somewhere that the 80# JBHC (Hollow Core) had to undergo a more challenging manufacturing process, thus a reflection of the overall cost. But that was last year.

This year, and I am still scratching , because I see that 60# JBHC is listed as being available. It seems like it is here now. And get this, the Price?

60# JBHC 2500 yd. spool goes for $295 (approximate retail).

So if you still think that 80# JBHC is an irrational choice based upon the price, perhaps 60# Hollow core is within reason. You can certainly spool up even more line; although, it is not even published yet from the JB website.

I have not tried, the 60# or 80# Hollow cores yet, so I do not have any critical comments. But I would certainly want to ensure that you can still easily splice the line and that it is conforatable to work with.

I have used the 80# solid core Powerpro before, and I believed, at the time that was an optimal solution for over-testing a reel. But it was simply too uncomfortable on my bare skin, on the re-winds, for me to be completely satisfied. Not to mention, I learned the trial and error way, that moss green was not an optimal colored line for fishing at night (or day for that matter).

[Relentless33]

Thinking about it, 60 lb may be enough. Think about it, 50 pound reel is spooled with 50 lb Momoi Diamond so 60 lb braid is only going to be a little stronger (exclude the fact that 50 lb Momoi breaks much higher then what the label says)

I think 130 lb is unneccessary an 80 is REDICULOUSLY PRICED

So 60 may be a perfect option that works nice

And RT: I can't imagine that moss green would be to great of a choice for a color that will appear at night.

[Relentless33]

Plently of thinking I learn more valuable information on this site then I did the whole year in half-spanish math class :shock:

[Relentless33]

RT: Remember the one TLD that I told you about that we need to respool, Im pretty sure that is going to be spooled with JBHC so we get a feel for it and decide if we like it or not. Im not sure what lb. test it is going to be but that will work itself out.

Thanks for all of the help with advice and tips with JBHC.
Same to you The Beast. It has helped me learn a lot about the subject.


:biggrin:

[just2fish]

Originally Posted by Relentless33

Because I want to go out there in the middle of the day and drop a sandbag down to the bottom and break it free.

just curious, what do you mean by this..

[Relentless33]

Send a squid with a lot of weight attached to it all the way to the bottom and break it free. Then let it slowly drift up and get nailed by a monster sword :shock: :lol:

[JahMussa]

Poor choice of knot for that application.

BTW... there's no need to back your spectra with mono if you know how to tie a proper knot for this application. And using double sided tape... ever see what that does to your spool a year later? I hope your installer protected your spool prior to installing your spectra too. If not, you might want to look for someone else to do it in the future.

-Tek

[Flywest]

Ok here goes - pls be gentle on me, I'm new at this!

I saw capt Jim (The Beast) whom I recognise from FS webbsite, where I used to post for many years...so figured it was safe to poke my nose in for a looksee maybe.

Ahh - I don't know if this was suggested for Risktaker - but you could try attaching that spectra braid loop to the swivel with whats called a catspaw.

I've a suspicion that it may still wear and break anyway - but it'll likely take a bit longer to do so!

If you don't mind risking deep sixing another planer board...you could always try and report back.

The suggestion with spectra is that it has something called a critical bend radius..the fibres just don't like bending past 90 or more degrees, and as a result knots like the bimmini twist with long radius bends seem to retain strength while other more abrupt turn knots fail sooner.

It has something to do with the materials strain to failure ratio of less than 1% and the 'euler wall buckling theorem'..when the fibres are in more than 1% compression and more than 1% tension around a bend they tend to break...

Anyway, a catspaw might get you out of a spot of bother if you wanted to have another go.

In case your not familiar with the cats paw connection (likely you all call it something diferent)...it starts out the same way you effectively figure 8 connected, your spectra loop to the swivel by passing it thru the swivel loop then poping it over the swivel and pulling tight up behind to lock it off..

For the cats paw - you do the same thing except....you pull the loop a little further thru the eye of the swivel - gently separate the two strands of spectra you just pulled thru, both before and after the eye and then rotate the swivel longways in the lay of the braid - like a lady on a trapeez swing going 180 over the top, longways between the threads before and after the eye 3 or 4 times, then pull the loop down tight behind the swivel eye as you did before!.

This efectively gives 3 or 4 wraps of the spectra along either side of the swivel eye - i.e. a LOT more bearing surface area on the spectra of the swivel metal...and as a result it should last a LOT longer before it wears thru - the fibres are in a longer radius turn and shouldn't break as easy.

Give it a try and see how it goes.

Cheers!

[RiskTaker]

Goodday Flywest:

Hey, thanks for the advice on using the cat's Paw knot. I may certainly give it a go with another "poor mans down-rigger", or the planer idea.

Yeah, if I am not mistaken it is also called an "Off-Shore swivel knot". After doing a little bit of research, by asking my fellow fishing colleagues, as well as a little bit of Googling, I quickly began to discover that this was the "best recommended" knot to tie a double line of spectra , solid core, and in my case hollow core spectra.

See this link for a visual of the off shore swivel knot:

http://www.britishcongerclub.org.uk/...wivel_knot.htm

See this link for a visual of the Cat's paw knot:

http://www.thaifishingguide.com/fish...vel_steps.html


After looking at both they appear to be the same knot. (With a key distinction, which is very clearly shown in the Thai Fishing Guide- notice the swivel is brought through the loop; that is not clearly shown in the previous example. I suggest this to be an important detail, because my practice knots on the first image did not produce the desired result. )

Just to kick it up a knotch:

Here is something else I learned - After seeing some Magibraid 60 Kg hollow core and comparing it to JBHC 130#, it appears like the Magibraid is about 2 to 3x the size of Jerry Brown, now we are talking braided filament size here, and nothing at all to do with gentlemen with the surname of Brown. What a difference that will make for spooling anything where you are seeking a reduced line diameter per breaking strength.

Now call me a fishing fanatic if you like: but while I was on the same "hell bent" mission to figure out the best knot for this hollow core spectra, I come to discover, at least based upon a few other angler's popular wisdom that: a Bimini twist in Spectra, (probably only solid core) is not 100%. Some stories talk about less wraps even, to get about 80-90% and with a 30-40 wrap for a Bimini, breaking strengths may even dwindle down to 50% of breaking strength. Well that is certainly not something I really wanted to hear. But if it was/is the blunt reality, then so be it.
I can neither support nor refute those claims at this time. But it sure did get me all bent out of shape. Maybe, I was just being gullible.

Well, as it turns out, this put me on a mission to just blow that "myth buster" concept out of the water.... rather than denying this as truth or falsehood, I rather re-inspired myself in another direction.... that being? Well how about Hollow core spectra? It turns out that Jerry Brown Industries now makes a Hollow core in 60# test. Hmmm, the price is not out of whack compared to adjacent strength neighbor, 80# HC, but still not cheap, by any stretch of the imagination. (Oh, was that a pun? Knot. Not really.)

So I had to just get me a spool of this stuff, (for my spinner - ) Yes, you heard me right, my spinner.. Story ... So not to long ago I spooled-up my Shimano Spheros 14000 with some JBSC 30# test. By Gollie, I probably packed about 500 yds. of line onto the spool. Now I'm thinking I could probably even land a Broad-bill with one of these as my backup rods. Arrgh, you never know unless you give it a try, right matee? irat: I loved the way I could launch lightly weighted rigs to ranges I never imagined by using stout monofilament. This was starting to seem very appealing... then as some experience/or lack of, experience is building, I am starting to cut the line, due to "fly knots", a/k/a wind inspired in flight knotting. To splice, I do some double over-hand style knot, quick and simple.(Kids, don't do this at home but read the internet first, then execute your plan). In retrospect, I am starting to believe a "double uni", with some extra wraps as applied to spectra may have been a better choice. Needless to say, I am fishing in the Bahamas and I rig up a group jig, on my spinner, yeah you heard me right, a grouper rig on my spinner, yeah the one with the 30# spectra on it, and oh yeah a spliced knot about 40 feet out. I bump up my drag a bit to avoid the "grouper wants to rock - dance" and bam, line snap without a whole lot of pressure either. Well, go ahead, I will chalk up another inferior knot to my collection, although it did precede the one that this thread is all about. But I'm learning. :razz:

So.... back to wind-on leaders she goes... my 30# JBSC retrieved onto her original spool to be used for more home-made wind-on leaders.

Next... comes out the JBHC 60#. Seems like it is about the diameter of 18# test, approximately. I am guessing that I put about 300-350 m of this line onto my spinner, yeah that's right, my spinner, the yardage is still a guestimate.

Ok - so I now have have 60# spectra on my spinning outfit. (white spectra as they say.) So what and why am I going to to do with this.

For one thing: if I ever get a fray or a broken line mid-way, I am going to stitch her back together again with a hollow core splice. From what I hear it is 100%, from what I can tell it may even be 200% because it is a double wrap of hollow core spectra. And get this.. not knots. I'm OTAY with that, Ya-Mon...

For another thing: back to that dreadful terminal splice to the monofilament or flourocarbon or terminal tackle paraphenalia, how do we make the interconnect. Well, I do not know about you, but I have made a spliced double line, which as some folks say is 100%. And the bonus, is now I have a double line of spectra to tie to something else: a hook, a swivel, a flourocarbon line. Alrighty then.... a double of of 60# tied to anything even using some mediocre knot, yields what?, in the grand scheme of things. By Jove, I think we've got a superior interconnect system going. (But don't try to apply for any IGFA recognition with this setup mate. ) You may be considered a bit reckless and surly. But who gives a flying F about IGFA, so long as you mind your manners on being conservation minded. Like Smokey says: "only you can prevent over-exploitation". (Well cool down just a bit there... many folks use the IGFA as a guideline for fair competition, etc. etc. so it does provide an example for anglers to follow.) So use her for all she's worth: sounds like a good quote anyway.

[Relentless33]

Lovin' the wicked long posts

[JahMussa]

Seeing RT post... I'm like a moth to a flame. I can't seem to turn away from it and usually left wonding how could one person have so much time on their hands and type for so long

The condensed version goes like this...

"I still can't tie a knot in spectra"

:shock: :shock:

[RiskTaker]

So I think... What is a good nick name and I want to hear some educational news from you..... ?????. You're building some experience, I suspect by now: you are certainly a few leaps and bounds ahead of the 10 and 14 year olds I am seeing doing the mindless zombie thing. Perhaps it is just a ploy, for a mindless old geiser, that these kids think I may be because I do not entertain in their lazy ways.

Now, I think of Sonny-Boy. Don't take this adversely. It could be a great handle.

My stepfather, had the handle of SonnyBoy: both on Vhf and HAM radio back in the 70's. There is presently a boat somewhere down south-Fla with the same handle. But that does not deny anybody else from that same title, so long as it does not get confusing. To be confused, is not a good thing: it could be dangerous even.

So take it or leave it. It was only a suggestion.

[Relentless33]

Whatever floats your boat

Your not a midless old geiser, and don't worry about entertainment: I still learn from your posts and look forward to them :lol:

[RiskTaker]

Wow Tek:

Thanks for that wonder reply. ... If you did not stay up late, I suppose you missed a wonderfully colorful commentary.


If anybody would appreciate a posting about the positives of JB spectra, I would think you could.


This forum post is about the sharing of ideas, and you have had some good ones too, and I, just like everybody else have made mistakes, and I am not timid to admit some mistakes in the learning process, to learn from others, and share my own experiences on a forum.


I only want to tie knots in spectra as my secondary option.

[JahMussa]

It's all cleared up now... nothing but love

[RiskTaker]

Alright Tek:

Thanks for the good stuff in the reply... and another lesson learned, including my own behavior.