SAFMC Singles out the recreational angler with new regs

[fish-n-dude]

The following is a quote from Federal Register - Rules & Regulations. You can read the whole thing at the following link :


“Comment 14: Various groups advocated bag limits from five fish to two fish per person per day be considered for snowy grouper and golden tilefish rather than the preferred alternative of one fish per person per day. One group stated that hi-grading is less likely with a larger bag limit. One group stated their preference for a spawning season closure rather than a 1-fish bag limit.
Response: The Council did not consider bag limits exceeding two fish per person per day because the average catch of snowy grouper and golden tilefish is already low (i.e., about one fish per angler per day) and the intent of the proposed actions is to end over fishing on these stocks. Also, the Council was concerned recreational fishing pressure might increase as stock biomass increases in response to reduced fishing pressure. The Council believed that a bag limit of one fish per person per day would provide a greater incentive than a 2-fish bag limit would provide for fishermen to avoid areas where golden tilefish and snowy grouper occur. “

http://www.safmc.net/portals/6/news/...%209.21.06.pdf

[kyle]

Thats nothing but a bunch of horse $h!T

[DIRTYFOOT2]

That's quite the conclusion. I finally get it. Were debating w/ dullards
with little or no cognitive ability, and NO PRACTICAL FISHING
EXPERIENCE, or COMMON SENSE. If most of these schmoes had to catch thier dinner they'd starve. KOOKS

[seacat100]

phase out the long-liners and commercials and we'd have a sustainable population for the charter/recreational people probably indefinitely(with reasonable limits),its high time the powers that be consider that for a lot of fish species there just isnt anyway to continue commercial explotation in the long run and that letting them take the lion's share of the stocks is stupid and a self defeating process,but thats just common sense,but heck what do I know?

[kyle]

I am commercial and have the ability to catch them but I don't.
You can't say PHASE THEM OUT thats part of there livlyhood (sp?). Thats like saying that whatever you do for a living should no longer exist!!

It's not right to do that to anyone

What has to be done is the rec limit must be raised, and the commercial must be decreased.
Thats the only way there will be fish to catch later!!!!

Sorry your post made me alittle mad because it's just not right to tell someone sorry you don't have a job any more.

I know alot of the longliners that catch them I do NOT agree with it.

But for many of them those fish put food in their kids mouths, cloths on their backs and shoes on there feet.

So in a way if you took the fishery from them there family would suffer.

Sorry thats just the way I feel Not trying to defend anyone but just state what I know.

Kyle

[miamiangler1]

Well it is all Bull S**T I am living in Miami .. why should I suffer and can catch all the tile fish I want.. you cant long line in dade or broward countys ... it won`t be over fished never ... screw their livlyhood .they should get a 9-5 job like everyone else .. they are the ones that are overfishing our waters !!! If the long liners and commericals could they would wipe out all the fish in the sea...they have done it to sword fish , cod , salmon ,tuna, king mackerel, spanish mackerel, redfish , groupers , red snappers, sharks ... killing billfish as bycatch for decades!!!and now they want to wipe out tilefish which fish is going to be next on their list ???? ...also realize this ... where tile fish live ... their eco system is just as important as the mangroves are to reef fish .. tilefish stir up the mud and release nutriants into the water ... wipe out tile fish in an area ... and that eco-system will collapse... catchinfg a few fish from an area wont hurt the eco-system ... well this was told to me by my daugther . :shock:

foot note: nothing against you Kyle just that in my area can catch them all day long if I wanted to ...I dont have electrics and do it manually ... I know it sounds crazy and dont take it wrong ... to me it is more sporting the way I do it ... ... I would stop at four fish anyway .. plus never fish the same area twice .. I leave it alone for a while ...

[fish-n-dude]

While a lot of people would like to see commercial fishing go away, I am more concerned with leveling the playing field. The Magnuson-Stevens act clearly states

" If it becomes necessary to allocate or assign fishing privileges among various United States fishermen, such allocation shall be (A) fair and equitable to all such fishermen; (B) reasonably calculated to promote conservation; and (C) carried out in such manner that no particular individual, corporation, or other entity acquires an excessive share of such privileges. "

In this case the council has over stepped their bounds and publicly stated that they wish to decrease the incintive for recreational anglers to harvest these species.

The way I see it we should be aloted 2 Snowies, and up to atleast 3 Golden Tiles. That would put us at the same harvest levels as the commercials.

[miamiangler1]

I would go with that ... I would be happy if I could just catch one snowie grouper at the momment ... still have to figure out where they are in my area


just when is the next meeting so we can voice our opinions!!!

[Gaitor]

All please be aware .... you cannot use the term "Common Sense" and the word "Government" in the same breath .... it's an oxymoron (with emphasis on "moron").

[miamiangler1]

He y guy`s just was reading that .. tilefish is the worst to eat ... it has the highest mercry content ... if that is true ... why would they still sell this fish to the public .. and endanger our kidds and pregnat women ...??? maybe get the media involved .. inform the public ... then they would not buy it in the markets .. which means no profit ... and then we have all the tile fish to catch for our selves I know sound stupid ....

[poolman]

Actually, the high merc levels were for the gulf tiles,not the atlantic.And as for the long-lining thing...It's that rape and pillage mentality that goes with that type of fishing.I know hook and line commercial guys who make a living just fine. But if long-line style fishing didn't exist,they would do a lot better,and so would most of us rec guys. That style of fishing is far too taxing on the resource,and only benefits a few for a short time. And then the rest of us commercials and recs are left bickering over what's left Think about what that type of fishing has done to different species over the years. Just about every species that type of fishing has targeted,it has been taken to endangered levels in a very short time. It's way too effective,and should be eliminated.Those long-line boats only use a handfull of guys, and I'm sure most of them were hook and line guys before they "hit the jackpot" with the long-lining gig. So regardless,of being a rec or comm,you have to know that long-lining is spoiling it for everyone.

[Gaitor]

Let's not forget the bottom trawlers. Not only do they end up with massive bycatch, but damage the habitat as well.

[kyle]

Yes Poolman thats what I'm trying to say. We don't need to Phase out all commercial, only certain things, for example the LLing, All net bans in florida (still gillnet makeral way offshore on the west coast.) So yes things need to be done. They just have to be done the right way.


But still if they take out the bottom LLing there are ways that they will still catch the fish BELIEVE me. I've seen rigs with 25 hooks on them 2 guys fishing 2 electrics, when 1 comes up the other goes down, and this happens all day. They may catch 7-10 fish a drop so do the math how many fish is that? What kind of poundage are we talkin?

See what I mean, something has to be done with the comm limits.
Just remember there is always a complex problem, that can be answered with a very simple solution. Your solution is make as much noise as possible, show up at all NMF meetings, letters, e-mail everything.

So you see I'm not trying to start problems, your reading a commercial guys post, telling you that I do agree it is wrong. The LLing needs to be stopped, but other actions still need to happen before everything is straightned out.

Kyle

[poolman]

Gaitor,don't get me started on those guys up my way...Rock shrimp trawlers come through and the bottom looks like a desert for months. ABSOLUTELY on the same level as the long-liners! Kyle,even the guys who multi-hook fish are nothing compared to the level of destruction the long-liners cause. Ever seen those boats??? Hundreds of hooks. Like my uncle,"who was a commercial guy" told me years ago,' if properly managed without abuse, and closed spawn seasons,the ocean could be an endless resource for all who use it. But greed will surely get in the way".

[kyle]

Poolman your uncle is absolutely correct, with proper management there would never be a problem. He is a very WISE man, which this world needs more of.

Yes I've been around the boats for along time. Even know a few guys that do it. Several of them are fishing upto 1800 hooks. I don't know how long the line would be, but however long it is thats how much bottom is covered. So say its 3 miles long, well forget about fishing that area for awhile atleast a few months until they can move in.

Also don't know if you know this, but tiles migrate up the gulf stream, so new fish will move in to replace the ones caught.

But if you think about it, it's like pulling a 3 mile wide trawl out there catching all the tile fish. Rendering it a baren landscape.

Kyle

[Boboe]

I've done this commercial red snapper fishing in the Gulf. What's killing the red snapper in the Gulf is SHRIMP TRAWLERS! In a meeting last year, the biologists said that (something like) 80% of all red snappers are caught and killed in shrimp nets before they ever reach spawning size. EIGHTY PERCENT!!! If you ever fish west of the Mississippi, you'll see why this is the case. There are shrimpers all over those mud flats. When you drop a bait on those same mud flats you catch a shitton of baby snappers. They also said that we could end ALL HOOK AND LINE FISHING IN THE GULF FOREVER, and if they continue to net up the shrimp as they do, the red snapper stocks will never ever recover. How's that for sobering?

Originally Posted by kyle

Yes Poolman thats what I'm trying to say. We don't need to Phase out all commercial, only certain things, for example the LLing, All net bans in florida (still gillnet makeral way offshore on the west coast.) So yes things need to be done. They just have to be done the right way.


But still if they take out the bottom LLing there are ways that they will still catch the fish BELIEVE me. I've seen rigs with 25 hooks on them 2 guys fishing 2 electrics, when 1 comes up the other goes down, and this happens all day. They may catch 7-10 fish a drop so do the math how many fish is that? What kind of poundage are we talkin?

See what I mean, something has to be done with the comm limits.
Just remember there is always a complex problem, that can be answered with a very simple solution. Your solution is make as much noise as possible, show up at all NMF meetings, letters, e-mail everything.

So you see I'm not trying to start problems, your reading a commercial guys post, telling you that I do agree it is wrong. The LLing needs to be stopped, but other actions still need to happen before everything is straightned out.

Kyle

[DIRTYFOOT2]

Willy, I understand your anger only too well, but I think it is a ;little misdirecrted. Commercial fishing is the way to provide fish to the masses.
Guys like Kyle are part of the solution not the problem. There is an important distinction to be made between hook and line comm guys and
the corporate longline raiders. I fish with a few commercial guys.
They are some of the most knowledgable, conscientous, stewards of the oceans you'll ever meet. Many of them are raised in fishing families,
and are raised to carefully harvest the oceans riches, without decimating a particular population. Old salty common sense applied, has had many comm fisherman regulating themselves, because they understand that if they take them all there will be none left to breed. Most of the smarter comm guys tend to target the fastest growing and most prolific species. Of course there are good and bad in every group. But be honest . How many times have you seen Rec fisherman, in the heat of a hot bite, take way more than they need, only too have it end up freezer burned and thrown away. Good laws are what is needed. Keeping the longliners, fishtrappers, and trawlers at bay. Not lock out comm fisherman alltogether. Besides what would a vacation to Florida be without a fresh seafood dinner. If regulated properly there is enough for all of us.
Take Care,
Butch

[miamiangler1]

Hey butch I do agree with you ,, I know there are a few good commercials out there like Kyle .. but then there are just as many that would grab everything they could ... I have been fishing in Florida for a good 30years ... I remember when we loaded a cooler full of dolphin ...50 -60 fish... and spend 3hours cleaning fish .. now I only catch what I would eat that week and release most fish I catch ... the bad part with deepdropping is .. you keep what you catch... as for the tiles 3 fish limit would seem right ... with a closed season from November to March ... that would give the fish some rest from all of us rec guy`s that are over fishing the tiles :lol: .. on the reason why I get angry at commercials is back in the 70`s .. I was fishing Newport pier .. during a Spanish mackerel run ... we could see the giant schools of mackerel heading to the pier ... along comes a trawler and takes the whole school of fish .. and everyone was just standing on the pier ..in shock.. ruined that day of fishing for sure !!!....but that was not the end ... later found out that the boat went up the Miami river to unload their catch ... the whole saler lower the price for the catch of the mackerel ... and they dumped the whole load in the river .. :!: way back then ..maybe that`s why I am so hard on these guy`s ... also I heard a report ... if the commericals dont change the way they harvast food fish ... most will be extinct by 2048!


P.S. Butch ..nice sword :lol: remember when I got one on a plain old penn 6/0 ... back in the early 80`s

______

drop where few fisherman have gone :twisted: before

[DIRTYFOOT2]

I caught a pup last week on a 30 year old 6/0. Don't have the funds for
an all gold spread, yet. You and I are on the same page about the comm fishing. I don't like the rampant destruction of the oceans by people on either side, that have no regard for the resource. Heard the 2048
prediction. Had to do w/ global warming too. I think thats why were starting to see yellowtails, muttons and other southern fish creeping up poolmans way. My hypothesis is that after the Polar cists we've experienced for the last 4-5 summers, is increasing slowly, some species tolerance to colder water. And or, moving North gives them more stable water temp. Just a theory

[Catch-All]

Fish farming is a great way to provide food for the masses. Whether it be tuna, salmon, dolphin, shrimp, etc., fish farming has proven to be a viable alternative to catching them in the wild. But too many forms of in-the-wild commercial fishing are too efficient and are depleting the fisheries too fast to remain sustainable.

Commercial hunting on land was banned at the turn of the last century (late 1800/ early 1900's). Commercial fishing is a public resource being depleted for private profit. And I was in the commercial fishing industry for several years so I know it profits only a very few.

The main reason that more fish farming hasn't been done on a wider scale is because in many fisheries it's still cheaper to get fish in the wild.

I know a few commercial guys in my area and I know a lot more that are retired. The retired ones don't have an axe to grind any longer so they'll usually tell you the truth over a beer or two. They all say that any kind of any longlining must be banned anywhere & any time it is being practiced. The gear is just too damned efficient and kills too many non-targeted species indiscriminately. Doesn't matter whether it's "surface" longliners going after dolphin, swords, makos or if it's bottom longliners going after snappers, groupers, etc. The gear has to be banned now.

Some other gear that is too efficient and rapacious is rock-hopper gear used in bottom fisheries, purse seining for tunas, drift nets, some types of pot-fishing as well as the perennial local horror-show where fake "cast nets" are used to gill sh!tloads of Spanish Mackerel at the Kingfish Hole reef system south of Stuart Inlet. They started to do this heavily in the winter of 02-03 and it has gotten worse and worse in the following winters. Used to be you could limit out recreationally with no problem. Now it's damn hard to get a half-dozen.

Some of the types of commercial fishing I am not only have no problem with but am actually in favor of are as follows: SWORDS -rod & reel, harpoon and whatever is called "one-hook-per-buoy-with-a-6-buoy-max". BOTTOMFISHING - recreational-type rod & reel (electric & manual reels only). CLAMMING - traditional tonging, offshore clam dredging for surf turkeys and quahogs, clam farming. There are a lot more I could list. These types of family commercial fishing are sustainable, provide a lot of people with a lot of good jobs AND provide seafood to the masses.



Mark Sagerholm
Catch-All
out of Stuart Inlet, Fla