bahamians get the first bust

[broadminded]

Well it finally happened.I dont have anything too specific yet but i spoke with a reliable person. The Bahamian govt got their first bust.
2 guys fishing off Great Issacs got caught with 40 yellowtail. The guys were out of Ft. Lauterdale fishing a 27 Contender. Gone! they seized the boat.

[Warrior]

If you would, post up their story. Find out if they got caught offshore, or if they even cleared. Maybe they were cleaning them in the marina.

I guess I need more H.P., but my 72mi radar will give me a heads up.

[broadminded]

i wish i could i only know what i posted earilier. My buddy called me and breifly told me about it, we were both busy and thats all i got sorry.

[islandshark633]

please correct me if I am wrong but 40 yellow-tail would put these two clowns into the category of those who come to the Bahamas to pillage, disregarding any and all laws.

I would be surprised to find out that they had even cleared customs in to the country. No sympathy here.

[Warrior]

No, I definately agree. I just want to know how hard they are going to push this. I'm wondering if we should expect to get boarded from time to time, either while fishing or in the marina. I can deal with the new laws, but I don't want to get harassed.

[islandshark633]

The guys at the ministry themselves tried to soften the whole thing to me by re-stating that enforcement will be as lax to non-existant as it was before, but as we can see here, lightning will strike somehwere eventually.

I would be surprised if they bother with anyone not grossly abusing the laws.

[The BEAST]

That's one helluva fine ($125k boat) for catching over the limit. That is rediculous and borders on governmental piracy.

I personally know someone here (US, Keys) who just got a ticket for having undersized Muttons when he mistook the fish for Lane Snapper. The difference is subtle in the juvenile stage of the Mutton.

His fine was $300, not his boat!

Capt. Jim
The BEAST

[captadamr]

Originally Posted by The BEAST

That's one helluva fine ($125k boat) for catching over the limit. That is rediculous and borders on governmental piracy.

I personally know someone here (US, Keys) who just got a ticket for having undersized Muttons when he mistook the fish for Lane Snapper. The difference is subtle in the juvenile stage of the Mutton.

His fine was $300, not his boat!

Capt. Jim
The BEAST

Capt Jim,

There is a diffrence between catcing over the limit and downright poaching. The BAH Defense Force (aka navy) caught a dominican vessel poaching in BAH waters this week, seized the boat and arrested the crew. The penalty should be no diffrent for an American vs. Domincan boats. If your in the Bahamas, fishing without checking in, over the limits you are a POACHER. Its simple fact that poachers are not given a tap on the hand and let go. I highly doubt that if someone went over the limit they would have their vessel seized, but why take the risk.

I have also gotten a clear answer regarding charters and limits. Once I have a foreigner on board, the new limits apply. Almost all the boats here have no problem with the limit applying to us. Personally 6 pelagics on a 4 hour charter is plenty. Perservation of the fish stocks is more imporant than a quick buck selling fish.

Good Luck

Capt, Adam R.

[Warrior]

This is quite a bit different than someone just going over the limit in their home waters. I don't believe they will keep the boat, just use it as collateral. He probably is looking at $5000 - $10000 in fines and a date in court... unless they make an example of him. I personally don't think that would be a good business decision, but WTF do I know. Word alone travels fast! Can't wait for the details.

[quack quack]

Originally Posted by captadamr

Capt Jim,

There is a diffrence between catcing over the limit and downright poaching. The BAH Defense Force (aka navy) caught a dominican vessel poaching in BAH waters this week, seized the boat and arrested the crew. The penalty should be no diffrent for an American vs. Domincan boats. If your in the Bahamas, fishing without checking in, over the limits you are a POACHER. Its simple fact that poachers are not given a tap on the hand and let go. I highly doubt that if someone went over the limit they would have their vessel seized, but why take the risk.

I have also gotten a clear answer regarding charters and limits. Once I have a foreigner on board, the new limits apply. Almost all the boats here have no problem with the limit applying to us. Personally 6 pelagic on a 4 hour charter is plenty. Perservation of the fish stocks is more imporant than a quick buck selling fish.

Good Luck

Capt, Adam R.

So If you do not have a foreigner on the boat you have no rules for yourself?Not that you would keep alot but that is just not right.I am not talking about the Dom boat that did not clear and was poaching but a reg guy that cleared paid there $300 for there fish permit and if 2 guys had 40 yellowtail avg weight 1.5lbs that would not have been over the old rules of 40lb per person. My biggest problem is the hypocrisy of 2 sets of rules.In the US the same rules apply for everyone except if your have a commercial permit.I hope this rules bites the Govt in the azz.I wish every boat canceled there trips over there until the rules are changed.The pelagic rules are fine but the bottom fish rules are the ones I have issue with.

[islandshark633]

QQ, and other friends from the great white north, please try to understand that this Bahamas fishing regs stuff is not all about YOU.

Little geography lesson here, the Bahamas sits smack in between the wealthiest nation on Earth and some of the poorest on the other side. Both you in the USA and those down south, Dominica, Haiti etc are lumped in together in the same category of - FOREIGNERS. You are both completely different sets of people who come to the Bahamas with completely different agendas and do completely different things, yet the Govt here has to make ONE set of rules governing both. This has to cover and prevent the Dominicans coming here and decimating everything they can catch using any method they have including bleach and or Joy/gasoline (some call it Napalm) mixtures to kill the reefs. It is ESSENTIAL that we have on the books laws stating that you will have your vessel confiscated if you break the laws. How would YOU fine a Dominican? The only thing you can take from him is his boat.

Then, of coarse, you have the Bahamians themselves who would not be able to commercially fish under regs aimed at foreigners, or, in some cases, feed the local populations at all. Hence two sets of rules.

In an ideal world we would have 3 sets of rules, one for you guys who generally do the right thing, one for us, and one for those down south. We all know why that is not possible so end of story.

[quack quack]

Sorry IS but they should not have changed the laws just do a better job of enforcing current regs.The Dom boats are on the out and south islands so just patrol those areas better.There seems like 10 diferent solutions to that problem before changing the regs.So any Bahamian can comm fish without a permit or lic.That is something I would change right there.If you can not keep track of or regulate your own commercial fishery how on earth can you keep track of your fishery health.Does your Govt keep track of commercially caught fish?Who is your head fishery scientist?Can we talk to the advisory board that changed the regs so we can see the science used to make the new rules?

[islandshark633]

Sorry IS but they should not have changed the laws just do a better job of enforcing current regs.

we all agree on that

So any Bahamian can comm fish without a permit or lic.

no, Bahamians need FDC certification and business licence and have laws for that.

Does your Govt keep track of commercially caught fish?

They say they do

Who is your head fishery scientist?Can we talk to the advisory board that changed the regs so we can see the science used to make the new rules?

science ??? wot dat, mon?

[quack quack]

Thank you for your honest answers.I wish they could open there eyes.

[RiskTaker]

I sure hope that these new rules can be revised before April.

In the example cited at the beginning of this post, 40 yellowtail snapper is not all that many fish for a Bahamas fishing expedition, albeit hevily loaded on one species. By the former regulations it would probably constitute the 20 lbs. of demersal fish per person (filleted fish). By this years new rulings, clearly over the 20 lbs. whole fish, per vessel total limit. So yes, they were in violation. I just wonder if they knew that they were in violation. Some people are familiar with the rules, but not everybody may be aware of the recently adjusted regulations.

It would be like a breath of fresh air if the Bahamian regulations could be modified from the austere present reality into something a little bit more palletable for the foreign recreational anglers. Using Florida for example. There are regulations of fish per person, daily limits, extended trip limits and of course limits placed by species, all of which are managed with a touch of science. Our Queen Conch is presently off limits.

Such a proposal would not be such a bad thing for reasonable regulations of anglers within the Bahamas. Clearly, excesses of select species could be reduced with quantity limits. And this phantasm weight limit of dermersal fish would no longer be an example of shear stupidity, like throwing a single 21 lb. grouper back overboard because you have already exceeded your limit on the first fish caught, from 300 ft.

Allow 6 crawfish per person/ why not/ That is not excessive. Perhaps even allow muti-day quota for extend days of travel: perhaps 2 days aggregate possession. Or the way it used to be unless there is something wrong with the population that justifies reduced limits. Allow some conch per person unless there is something wrong that justifies reduced limits.

We all know, or at least will know now what the Bahmamian regulations for locals is:

Demersal fish - Unlimited
Pelagic fish - unlimited
Crawfish - unlimited
Conch - unlimited
Stone Crab - unlimited (correct me if I am wrong)

I am not sure what the commercial fishing limits are, but it probably does not exceed Unlimited.

For true conservation to work and to be somewhat sporting about it, the tourist regulations need to revert back to something more reasonable, and the local regulations should have some limits too, even if not to the exact same standard as tourist fishermen, but it would not be demonstrating blatant favoratism if they were uniform. Using Florida as example again; although per person regulations apply to all anglers equally the same, whether you are citizen or foreigner... You don't hear Florida residents balking about that. Somehow it just seems reasonabl. But you know that the locals can spend many more days on the water than a tourist can. But you certainly do here them raising cane about certain minority groups that poach and grossly exceed their limits. We all agree that is one behavior that should stop but we cannot all agree when the limits are ridiculously assigned.

I wish we could think alike on some of these issues, and restore the Bahamas to the fisherman friendly place it once was. Right now, the fishing regulations are deplorable and are hurting the wrong group of people.

Spearfishing? Why not? In some ways that is more sporting than dragging baits behind big expensive sportfishing boats. With fish quantity limits it can all still work and that goes for deep drop fishing as well, where fish survival dimisnishes greatly beyond 100 FSW. But that resource is so expansive when fished in moderation.

Hopefully, within the next few weeks/months some sound suggestions will be presented to the Bahamas Fisheries Minister for re-consideration in these matters. Without some level of reform many people will not be happy; and that runs contrary to Island style.

If the conch limits remain at zero for tourists, I sure wish the State of Florida would start buying them live at a dollar apiece to keep the Bahamian locals busy with some live harvesting activity so we can repopulate the banks on the Florida side of the stream. Perhaps in a few years conch will be another come-back success story if managed properly. Just had to throw that one in there one more time for good measure.

[Beer Bones]

The fact of the matter is that these are the laws of the Bahamas. If you do not or can not abide by them you run the risk of having your boat impounded. Also why is it the people that said that they would go fish in the Florida Keys and forget the Bahamas that are the ones still griping about the laws of the Bahamas? Deal with it, they are an independent nations laws. Bahamians have stood by and watched our waters being pillaged for too long and we are finally taking a stand, is that not our right in our country? Also it is our right to say what a Bahamian can and can not do in our country. We are a nation of perhaps 300K with neighbours amounting to millions, who is the bigger threat to our #1 and only real natural resource? Why don't you go and fish Cuban waters and see what happens? Sorry guys it's the law at this time and if you do not like it you do not have to come and fish Bahamian waters.

[Warrior]

Just wondering if there was any more to this story. Anyone hear more details on what actually happened?

[quack quack]

Funny thing is that even if it was only a rumor it had the same effect.It kept more of from wanting to go there.